Wrong. You need to get a stool DNA parasitology test AND a live blood microscopy test. If you ‘forget’ these tests, you will not get better.
3 members OUT OF 3 who have had Metametrix Stool DNA parasitology tests have been positive.
Yes, we should look at food allergies.
This is multifactorial.
JN
Yes it is. All sufferers here will find they have either or both of the following:
Diagnosis and treatment of such is critical to getting better.
JN
I’ve had 2 Live Blood Microscopy tests done, the first 2 months before i quit fin, and the second a year later, ie July this year.
The doctors didnt mention anything about parasites or yeast infections etc on either occasions from what i can recall…
RBCs were a bit stuck together also. I’ll dig up my report
Right, okay I think what’s going on here is that we have the same idea and know that something wrong is going on in the gut. Figuring out the exact cause, right that’s a problem. A reason I don’t think its parasite/yeast related is that I believe it can take up to a month or two of a strict no sugar diet to see yeast go away. The thing is, I can see physical side effects start fade in under a week if I stay on the right restricted diet. I can even make my hair fall out based on what I eat in about a day or two, sometimes less if I eat the right diet during the day from waking up. Can a parasite do this? If you have information to show that its possible a parasite or yeast infection can do this, then I would be willing to go along.
Overall, I think it takes similar actions to heal the gut regardless of what the cause is. we all ready agree its gut related, its just a matter of getting in the right foods and finding the exact problem. have you taken something to cure your gut of parasites? what do you do to treat it?
Look here Bryce, I read your comment thoroughly, and I appreciate your comment.
What matters to me is the truth. The absolute truth.
I maintain that you need to get the following tests done:
Yes, GI parasites and systemic yeast infections are central to our suffering, and yes, responsible for your symptoms and failure to recover.
Have you read my mini thesis on ‘tests to do’ on my thread, where I’ve highlighted certain important tests in blue? Please get those tests in blue done. They are ALL critical.
JN
That’s your opinion, and you’re entitled to it, but sadly you will find much different when the scientific papers that are published on this problem come to light. People have had your tests and turned up nothing, so not sure why you continue to push such unfounded nonsense. Stating EVERYONE is suffering from these problems, and that they are the root cause, is simply laughable.
Sexual dysfunction from Finasteride has nothing to do with “parasites” or “systemic yeast infections”, these are documented direct side effects of the drug’s androgen deprivation mechanisms as noted in various clinical trials and research papers. On the other hand, the useless and fraudulent red herrings you are promoting do nothing but waste people’s time and money, IMO.
Not to mention:
Live Blood Microscopy is considered fraudulent, per my earlier posts in this thread: viewtopic.php?p=46140#p46140
The “DNA Stool Sample test” is done by a lab (Metametrix) which is practicing NON STANDARD labwork:
quackwatch.com/01QuackeryRelatedTopics/Tests/nonstandard.html
quackwatch.com/01QuackeryRelatedTopics/Tests/privatest.html
“J. Alexander Bralley, PhD, founder and chief executive officer of MetaMetrix Clinical Laboratory, a lab that caters to chiropractors and other offbeat health professionals.”
Not to mention DNA Stool testing is indicated for detecting COLON CANCER, not “parasites” – mayoclinic.com/health/dna-stool-test/MY00623
Mew
You’ve continually dismissed live blood microscopy on a whim and bizarrly have never reviewed your position on it. Why? Quackwatch?
My endo didn’t suggest live blood microscopy was fradulent and its legitimacy seems very much understated if anything. We should be more embracing of such less conventional means esp when they have proved helpful to people on this board.
Review the links posted, especially pg. 12 onwards of the GOVERNMENT ISSUED document: oig.hhs.gov/oei/reports/oei-05-00-00250.pdf
Also, ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1303171/pdf/westjmed00362-0051.pdf
Also…
In short, we have enough to deal with rather than fall prey to scam/fraud products & services designed to misdiagnose/over diagnose, in order for us to spend money on additional “treatment” products & services from such companies/practitioners to “treat” likely non-existent issues.
The term “a fool and his gold are soon parted” applies in numerous areas of life, not just here. If you want to spend your money on labs and tests which aren’t even considered legitimate/standard so you can be sold a diagnosis, then go ahead. There’s a reason these types of unfounded tests are generally used by many outside mainstream medicine, in order to push their questionable services. Note I am not saying don’t keep an open mind to alternative health treatments, but you should evaluate the legitimacy of their claims before trusting your health and money to their testing/use.
who cares. Some people are going to be for it and some people have it in their heads that western medicine is the only medical practice that exists.
I’m sorry, but this is just fubar. Most if not all the recoveries on this board are based around JN’s 19 points… It’s not about finding the root cause to PFS, but rather finding the root cause to our other issues such as adrenal fatigue, hypothyroidism, leaky gut. It’s about optimization of health. There is just so many root causes to underlining PFS conditions that you sometimes just have to get lucky to find one. I personally haven’t hit the right button yet, but when I do I know my health is going to bounce back in a big way. Do not care what you say Mew, Leaky Gut Syndrome is a legitimate condition. If you google “Is leaky gut fake” you will find 100s of articles telling you why and how it is legitimate. I cant speak for everyone but I know I will cure myself before you find any kind of proof in your studies with researchers. You can take that to the bank.
How many people have done live blood analysis, out of curiosity?
Some of the critiques against it are valid, but I also find it hard to believe that you can “infect” a slide within seconds of collecting the sample with parasites, yeast, etc. and that you can completely distort all blood findings. Is there someone with expertise in this field that can weigh in beyond the severely biased and silly quackwatch talking points crowd?
That’s your opinion that you present as fact.
Even more concerning is that you ignore people who have proven you to be incorrect.
Parasites, yeast or anything else in that direction can be a part of inflammation that could well be root issues of sexual problems that many of us have. Or it may just be one of many elements of the puzzle in many.
But for sure there’s something in it. Ihatepropecia702 is practically recovered at this point. Other guys have made very notable improvements etc from similar initiatives.
…
I’ve seen you post this very argument before and i’ve let it slide, but I think i owe it to the rest of the PH community to address this misinformation.
The “various clinical trials” are all in respect to androgen deprivation [Size=4]whilst taking[/size] finasteride. So please stop mis-selling the relevance of these “trials” to our plight.
All bets are OFF for PFS when guys get worse, much worse, after going off the drug. Hell, i was practically normal for the year i took finasteride, i didn’t crash immediately after, either. I didn’t even crash at all, i just got continually worse for a year after.
PFS is a whole different monster and it’s sides are much more pronouced, profound and unrecognised by western medicine (how ironic eh???) than the sides reports in these trials for people using the drug.
Of course this is where you jump in to promote YOUR theory about AR which is inexpliciably more unfounded both anecdotally and otherwise.
So, i cant tell for sure how useful live blood microscopy is but i can tell with certainty that right now, having liaised with hundreds of finasteride sufferers, that outside of sex hormones and adrenals etc, one of the most important things to look at closely is the less recognised things like inflammation, infection etc be that fungal, parasite or whatever. Al elements of immune health is vital here. It’s definately not a coincidence that many of the people ive came across who have had some or even very good levels of recovery have looks into these areas and embarked on things like anti-candida diets and other hollistic diets. The connection may be more indirect that we realise but even if that is the case it’s an important element in PFS that you foolishly ignore.
The body works in unison. Hormones, hormone metablism for instance is intrically connected to immunity for instance. Medicine only knows the half of it and this is why it struggles to help us right now. Our lives are too short to simply accept this as a defeat.
Dexamethasone drastically altered my symptoms. I’m not sure why. Copper and progesterone is currently helping me. It’s a mindfield for sure - the last thing we can afford to be is closed-minded.
I guarantee you that in 100 years the relevations in medicine in areas as discussed above will blow current medical misunderstandings so far out of the water that it makes the current knowledge look so amateur it’ll be embarrassing. That’s jsut a fact of life for the times that we live in. Bare that in mind.
Can you name some of these people that have recovered please?
I have spoken to ihatepropecia702 myself and 1. he apparently wasn’t as bad as many of us and 2. he is just one guy, getting better from using Nystatin and has used a few other anti fungals, he doesn’t even know exactly what the drugs are treating.
Also, a lot of guys experience very severe sexual dysfunction and cognitive problems ON the drug, resulting only from androgen deprivation caused by finasteride and nothing else. No mineral imbalances, no over mastrubation, no porn addiction - no absolute bullshit theory that was put into someone’s head by the internet. PFS isn’t an exclusive club for severe side effects, although side effects persisting off the drug are the main issue obviously.
I will always keep an open mind towards other people’s ideas but i am afraid that those of you who are talking about ‘live blood analysis’ and ‘gut infections’ are going to have to accept that you will come under harsh scrutiny. For good reason in my opinion. Firstly because a lot of that stuff is complete nonsense and secondly because the side effects/ symptoms that we have as PFS sufferers resemble the symptoms of androgen deprivation. It doesn’t take a rocket scientist to figure out that the best area of investigation is androgens or whatever you brainy guys find links with.
I think many of us have probably felt irritated by Mews attitude towards other people’s ideas that are, shall we put it ‘alternative’? but to be honest, i don’t blame him at all. You have to draw the line somewhere. I have spent a fortune on supplements that would have never done ANYTHING and far, far too much of my time thinking and stressing over what could be wrong with me all because i read something on the internet.
Fucking hell 
Firstly the general PFS sufferer doesn’t appear to fit into this category.
The one’s that do however and haven’t recovered demand much more closer consideration than you’ve given before making such comments. Given that they didn’t recover having stopped the drug how do you know that it was “only” androgen deprivation that gave them these serious sides? Rather, it would appear that they are far and beyond the general “androgen deprivation sufferer” given that their sides are more pronouced than a 70% reduction in DHT should ever cause.
More than likely it’s the feedback mechanisms that have caused severe endoctrine disruption to a point that it’s been unable to reset itself even after cessation of the drug. Such alteration is likely to cause stress signals throughout the body and disrupt other mechanisms of the body, including immunity. The body finds itself in a profound and compromised state that in many cases has caused all sorts of weird sides far beyond what finasteride’s basic “androgen deprivation” could have have done. It was simply a catylst of destruction.
In some causes it can be as simple as estrogen dominance as a result of finasteride usage. 1750 was a guy who had this issue and it took him over a year AFTER fin to fix this. He’ll now completely fine despite having ED, watery semen etc at one point. The body doesn’t seem to react well to such HPA disruption for some guys, clearly. 1750 seems lucky that he didn’t develop more problems from this estrogen dominance.
Anyway it’s the other mechanism of finasteride that also requires consideration - it’s disruption of dihydroprogesterone and allpregnenolone sythesis, the latter being a crucial neuro-steroid found in the brain. Fin crosses the blood-brain barrier and this shit is no joke.
As for the guys who get severe sides whilst on finasteride and recover on cessation - they are the lucky ones. Their bodies were able to successfully reset. Ironically, many guys on here were these guys before using fin a second or even third or forth time before getting themselves in a state that their body was no longer able to self-repair.
This is obviously also very likely to be a cause of severe side effects ON the drug also. Sorry, i forgot to mention it but i was thinking it when i used the term ‘androgen deprivation’ quite loosely.
Anyway, if we can just come away from all the fancy talk and you going on as if you are some sort of PFS specialist. Basically, what i was trying to say is that the major effects of finasteride - androgen deprivation, allopregnanolone suppression and whatever else that poison does, is more likely to have seriously messed up our hormones or brain i.e a condition such as androgen deprivation rather than caused an imbalance of minerals or a gut infection that is then causing our penises to shrink and sex drive to disappear.
I will now opt out of this discussion because it’s getting on my nerves.
Yes, very obviously the drug has caused it. The drug has caused everything either directly or indirectly. It’s the distinction between direct and indirect effect that Mew and many of this board seem to have complete incredulity about which is bizarre given that we are subjects and therefore living proof of this whole syndrome and it’s far reaching effects within the human body!!!
Your not even making sense now. It’s not bizarre at all; Mew and whoever else that writes off alternative therapies are simply trying to remain concise in there thinking/ theorizing. Just because the effects of PFS are seen all over the body and mind doesn’t mean that we have to start promoting ‘live blood analysis’ and looking into ‘gut infections’ and the like. You just said it yourself, finasteride alters very critical neurotransmitter and hormone levels. Low testosterone or high estrogen, for example is more than enough to cause body wide symptoms.
DO YOU UNDERSTAND WHAT I AM SAYING?
Stop talking as if you are a doctor or PFS specialist and stick to the point at hand for god’s sake.
I genuinely am very tired of all of this in general. Both you and i are sadly nothing but victim’s of the internet that have had idea’s placed into our head. In recent months/ weeks you dropped vitamin d supplementation due to marshall protocol recommendations, you announced that you believe porn/ masturbation addiction could be the cause of your issues and many of ours, you are now taking copper in an attempt to balance your mineral levels (i assume) and have also started using progesterone.
Have you ever sat back and realized how fucking mental that is? this is a bit of an off topic rant but you and the way you are talking has just reminded me. Yesterday i sat there for about half an hour in pure shock and dismay as what taking finasteride has lead me to. Browsing the internet for hours on end viewing things that mean NOTHING in the real world, spending hundreds of pounds on supplements, self medicating with cancer medications. WHAT THE FUCK?
I am tired. I am going to bed.
This is plain wrong. IHP was completely sexually decimated by finasteride. I’ve been in regular touch with him for a year and his sexual function has steadily improved as reported by me and IHP elsewhere on this forum. Additionally, his libido, sensitivity, ejaculate have all come online. He still feels he has a little bit of brain fog, and about 5-10% libido left to gain to feel 100% whole. He’s holding off making the full recovery report (complete with his list of things he used in addition to Nystatin to fight yeast and pathogens a la JN’s theory and approach) until he has sustained recovery for a few months (he’s now at one month of being med-free).
In fact, just in case I missed something about his complete lack of sexual function, I just e-mailed him for him to clarify:
This was his response to me:
.
Ah, fair enough. Well that’s good to know. I am not entirely sure why he was brought up though? i am very familiar with his story; used nystatin and other anti fungals as well as eating like a chimp (literally) with very low calories. However, treatment was based on nothing? or did a doctor find candida? actually, yeah, was it a live blood microscopy?