This diet gives me an improvement in cognition, motivation, drive, speaking, and energy but does not improve my libido (possibly better erections). This diet does not cure anything, it improves life, once you go back to eating carbs and sugar it all goes away. It’s not for everyone.
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Do you have one day a week where you can have more carbs i.e. a cheat day or is it just the one burger?
I appreciate this is after the initial (3/4 week) ‘settling in period’.
cheers
so is the keto what i’m doing but without fruit?
Here’s a typical day for me:
Wake up at eight. Take vitamin B and biotin on empty stomach. I have a coffee with a little milk and lots of 35% cream. I put 3 tabs of Equal in it to sweeten it. I know, it’s shit, but that’s the only shit I’ll take in the day (unless you count vitamins as shit). So that’s about 1 gr. of carbs because of the milk and cream, and 10 gr of fat, 90 calories.
First meal between 10 am and noon: 250 gr. Rib eye steak with salt and pepper cooked in two tbsp of ghee and 200 gr. of steamed bok choy with a tbsp of butter. (2 gr. of carbs in the bok choy, 130 gr. of protein, 40gr of fat, 650 calories in the meal). May replace the rib eye by a pork chop cooked in 2 tbsp of lard. After the meal, 2 tbsp of extra virgin coconut oil (0 carbs, 230 extra calories). Drink either water or cold jiaogulan tea (also called Gynostemma , no caffeine, tons of properties especially for the brain and as an anticancer). Sometimes I replace the bok choy by the infused jiaogulan leaves, as it has tons on amino acid and can be eaten as a vegetable (1 carb). I will drink cold jiaogulan throughout the day. It helps improve hormone imbalances and is 3-4 times more potent than ginseng. (http://jiaogulan.com/what-is-jiaogulan.htm)
Than I have my after meal vitamins: Lots of vitamin D2 and D3 (like 11000 ui) vitamin C, Zinc gluconate and a man multivitamin containing selenium and folic acid among all regular vitamins. I also wear a copper bracelet to make sure the zinc does not imbalance the copper in my body.
In the after noon, if I’ve been sweating because of a work out or because I rode my bike under Bangkok’s sun (38 celscius on a red light, with a 700cc engine making eat between my legs. very hot), I drink a mineral fizz of my composition: 6gr of magnesium chloride, 4 gr of potassium chloride, 100ml of lemon juice, 1.4 liter of water, 30 drops each of natural lemon extract and orange extract for flavor. I fill half a glass with that mixture, the other half with plain carbonated water. It’s delicious, re balances my electrolytes and prevents having too much sodium and not enough potassium and magnesium. It prevents leg cramps as well, which I get a lot otherwise.
On a work out day, I will also take a protein shake composed of water, 35% cream, 1 duck egg, 32gr. of whey protein isolate and some vanilla. (that’s 3 gr of carbs, 41 gr of protein, 40 gr of fat, 550 calories)
If I need to snack in the afternoon, I take either 30 gr almonds or 100 gr cheese, (or 1-2 tbsp of coconut oil. that really cuts hunger and provide plenty of energy)
Evening meal, before 6pm: either the same as for lucnh, or i replace the bok choy with spinach. Similar nutriments. I prefer bok choy as it contains DIM which inhibits the aromatase conversion of testosterone to estrogen. I will soon start juicing cruciferous along with celery for that purpose: low carbs, natural promotion of testosterone and androstenone, reduction of estrogen which is an antagonist to progesterone. Progesterone converts into allopregnanolone (for those without pfs) and along with the 5ar, I’m trying to get those two neurosteroids back on track.
Very often, I’m not too hungry at dinner because of all the calories taken already, so i would have a cup of gaspacho (Spanish cold soup compose of ketogenic beef bone broth, tomato juice, cucumbers, celeries and onions.) I would top it with a mix of feta cheese and olives, preserved in oil, and I make sure to put lots of the oil on top as well for energy. (I haven’t figured out the nutriments, but it would be lower in calories, fat and protein, but higher in carbs than the steak).
Some more jiaogulan in the evening and that’s it for the day.
Total 2300 calories, 230 gr. of calories, 125 gr of fat, 10-15 gr of carbs
That puts me between a ketogenic diet and a carnivore diet and makes me drift in and out of ketosis because of the extra protein. I also have 17 hours of fasting a day, but I guess I should eliminate the coffee in the morning to really do that.
Nonetheless, water taste sweet half of the time which is an indicator I’m in ketosis (that’s similar to fasting: the body breaks down heavy fat into smaller pieces called ketones, and burns them as if they were sugar with the help of insulin)
A ketogenic diet would be 180 gr of fat, 150 gr of protein and 23 gr of carbs.
A carnivore diet would be lower in fat, higher in protein, and 0 carbs. for 800 gr of beef and some butter.
The results:
About pfs, 95% of the neurological symptoms are gone. I used to have severe anxiety (to die for, you know what I’m talking about), severe insomnia, brain fog, speech slur, lack of coordination, extreme fatigue but can’t take a nap, inability to concentrate, lack of motivation, no desire to work, go out, see people, and severe muscle weakness: difficulty to walk, climb stairs, or just stand up. That’s all gone. I’m now focus, have plenty of energy, i’m well coordinated, I don’t get tired before bed time, I exercise, mostly weight lifting and swimming, and I have achieved things I never did my entire life: like 100 set up or 50 laps at the swimming pool, without a break. I can sleep 6 hours a night but still have to take sleeping pills.
Sexual side effects remained unchanged, although they were not severe to begin with. So I have a lack of sex drive, decreased sexual pleasure and sometimes cannot reach climax at all (which does not bother me because of the low sex drive). I’m still a little horny and find some girls attractive on the street, but in a kinda cute way instead of the “wow, bang, I really want to hump that chick”. (sorry for the language. But we’re all men here, the disease has feminized us, not to mention our society, so I think we should make efforts to keep speaking and acting like men as much as we can if we’re to get our testosterone back to normal. That’s my opinion, I’m not pc as you might have guessed and you don’t have to agree with me)
Other benefits from this diet, I mentioned in my first post above. I should add this diet makes diabetes impossible, greatly reduces risks of cancer, strokes and heart attacks, and altogether may add decades to your life.
So all of this does not cure pfs but aside from the discipline of the diet itself, I can pretty much have a normal life. (and my reduced sex drive is now at the same level as my wife, so it makes things simpler between us. I used to want to have sex 2-3 times a day… ha ha !)
Ps: If I have any sugar or large amounts of carbs, I’m back to anxiety, insomnia and brain fog. So carbs are out for me.
Ps2: I will have my blood tested again in 2 weeks. I curious about my cholesterol as well as my glycemic levels. Others on this diet has had abnormally healthy ratios of good vs bad cholesterol so I’m not too worried. I’ll also test all the usual stuff. Let me know if you want to know the results.
I wish you all a good quality of life while recovering.
Cheers !
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Keto has lots of fat. 70% of calories must come from fat. Plus keto is like fasting while still eating. the body reacts the same as on a fast.
It’s not like that if you take more than 30gr of carbs a day.
Update:
I just read that post about recovery using probiotics: Game Over PFS - I'm Recovering
I will change my diet by removing the morning coffee and all dairy products.
II will also try and get E. Coli probiotics (Mutaflor) and start juicing spinach and Kale.
If I get results from that, I’ll try this guy’s protocole.
Believe it or not, our guts is the second place in our body with the most neurones after the brain. Finasteride touched those neurones before the ones in our brain. And I know for a fact changes in the guts microdome can cause diseases or cure them.
I’m just guessing, but it’s worth a shot. BrongFogBoy is right when he says most recovery stories involve a change of diet plus I healed myself of many ailments using pro biotics in the past.
I’ll keep you posted.
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So how about the E. coli and the pro-biotics ?
That didn`t work ?
That what I get from my half keto/half carnivore diet: cognition, motivation, drive, speaking, and energy. It also does not improve my libido and everything goes to hell as soon as I eat carbs.
Perhaps the one thing of note is that Pre-PFS I obtained good cognitive benefits from taking MCT/coconut oil/Omega3-6 supplements.
Since getting PFS these oils have done nothing positive for me.
Regard keto I started carb reduction slowly gradually working towards a 50% reduction. I consumed coconut and olive oils. Given that they can inhibit dht I choose to increase slowly just in case I crashed. At a 50% carb reduction and an increase in the two stated oils I basically crashed 2 and half weeks later. After each meal I did notice my scalp would become itchy for a few hours then the feeling would subside.
During the crash I got a constant pain in my frontal cortex for about 24 hours. Penis girth increased but libido almost went completely. The sexual sides persisted for several months before slowly improving and are still not at pre-crash level.
So no reported positives during the diet. I never made it to full keto due to the crash.
Taking exogenous testosterone for 6 months did not cause me to crash nor did I crash when coming off it with baseline T dropping very low. However consuming large amounts of oils is the only thing that has caused a significant crash since getting PFS.
Hope this helps.
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What kind of MCT oil do you take ?
I take a lot of coconut oil as well. Will try the fish oil.
Does sugar gives you anxiety ?
Are there any risks involved with using pro-biotic supplements for those with PFS?
Any possible (serious) side-effects?
Should a person suffering from PFS have some tests done/consult a doctor before taking pro-biotic supplements?
I’ve had bad results with probiotics. Check on Game Over PFS - I’m Recovering for a very detailed use of probiotics and why you shouldn’t mess with them unless you know exactly which bacteria you need.
why?
if i eat pork, i feel worse. dunnow why. i ate loin, specifically. and cured meat. i remember well the day i ate loin, i had an anxiety attack.
another thing that maybe doesn’t work for me… when i wanted to get fat to fast, i ate full fat milk, and yogurt… i felt worse.
about this point… i’t’s months that i’m trying to figure out the progesterone enigma. at least for me is an enigma. We know that P -> DHP -> ALLO. But we also know that P is a 5-alpha inhibitor (maybe at huge quantities). So, is P good or bad for 5ar? I suppose that, basically, what P does is keeping the 5ar busy in converting P into DHP. @axolotl, i think that would be useful to have on this forum some expert physicians in dermatology, endocrinology etc. to shed some light on our doubts. what do you think?
oh, i used to love feta. by the way, aprt form the pfs, i know for sure that eating cheese is very bad for our bones. the fact is that, yes, they’re rich of calcium but they also cause blood acidification and inflammation. to fix this problem our body needs calcium. and what is the biggest calcium source in the body? yes, bones.
what about butter and ghee?
[quote=“Andrew35, post:14, topic:31951”]
Perhaps the one thing of note is that Pre-PFS I obtained good cognitive benefits from taking MCT/coconut oil/Omega3-6 supplements.
guys, are you sure? people crash from time to time… or maybe is just that we are different… one thing that i’ve noticed (but i’m not sure) is that we basically have three kinds of pfs sufferers: a) those who get only sexual sides; b)those who only get neurological sides and c) those who get both. Skin disorders may or may not be present (but i suppose that are more present in thos with cognitive disfunctions, like me). I suppose that a, b and c react differently to foods, supplements, protocols… is it possible? @axolotl?
Ok, i read it all. Between those who say that we should avoid carbs, 5ar foods (and every food is 5ar and full of phytoestrogens in a certain amount), starch, fruit, roots, seeds, cheese… what the hell should we eat or not eat? Or maybe my hypothesis is right, we react differently on foods depending on what kind of pfs sufferer we are…
the word is yours.
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Thanks a lot for the heads up Ozeph.
I bought a bottle of Probiotic supplements but I haven’t opened it yet because I don’t want to mess things up any further.
What kind of tests do I need to ask for in order for me to know if I need a certain bacteria?
I thought I would chime in here. I never did a member profile… sort of not ready to rehash or accept it but I promise I will. I took Fin for 19 years. I’m 42 now. When I crashed I didnt know what it was. Spent 4 days in a hospital because I thought I was having a heart atttack, or Lyme disease… or whatever… no one knew. I had spinal tap, EKG, Eco-Cardio, Echo-Corrid. and a million blood tests. Got home from the hospital chalking it up to some mystery virus and I kept taking Fin. (kind of a complicated story as I had been taking 1 - 5mg proscar per week because I thought it was the same as taking 1mg every day… probably the whole reason I’m in this mess frankly. I’ll explain that in more detail when I do my member story. Once i realized it Fin was the culprit… my heart sank especially after reading all the member stories here. So I quit Fin cold turkey 8/4/18. The first week I had nearly every symptom. emotional flatness, suicidal ideation, muscle twitches, fatigue so bad I could barely get off the couch, pins and needles on my hands and feet at night and sometimes during the day, weird vibrating sensation on my face when waking up or in the middle of the night, head pressure… etc…
Anyway, I went right to work at dieting. No carbs, alcohol, coffee, processed sugar and 8-10 hours of sleep every night. Within 1 month “most” of my symptoms cleared up. During this time I FORCED myself to work out. Even in the worse times of fatigue I would get up from what I was doing and do push-ups until I failed. (I can now do multiple sets of 30 pushups through out the day) .
I currently have head pressure and insomnia. The insomnia started about 3 weeks ago and I “think” I may have sparked the insomnia by getting ahead of myself and drinking heavily a couple times. I thought I was getting so much better and got careless with the alcohol and coffee.
My diet was/is.
Fruit in the morning. Green drink, banana , cottage cheese, etc…
For Vits… a multi vit, Vid D3 ( 4000-10000iu) , 1000mg B1, 10000mg B12 , Probiotic 10million
Get to work… havea probiotic yogurt.
Lunch is always a spinach salad with avocado and chicken or tuna and tomatos,etc…
Dinner is usually a steak, chicken or salmon over steamed broccoli .
During the day I eat different nuts … almonds and brazil nuts mostly.
While not totally Keto… it was based off a diet I saw mentioned on another similiar site that I dont think I’m allowed to mention here. LOL
I have a little bit of ED but it seems to go in Ebs and flows with my sleep. I think if I were to get 100% of my sleep back my only remaining symptom would be my head pressure. (Knock on wood)
Hope this helps. Not sure my diet helped my sides or if its just how my body reacted. If I can beat this insomnia I could live the rest of my life just fine with whats left.
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[quote=“Go_Faster_Sonic, post:18, topic:31951”]
Take vitamin B and biotin on empty stomach
why?
Ozeph:
pork chop
if i eat pork, i feel worse. dunnow why. i ate loin, specifically. and cured meat. i remember well the day i ate loin, i had an anxiety attack.
Ozeph:
100 gr cheese
another thing that maybe doesn’t work for me… when i wanted to get fat to fast, i ate full fat milk, and yogurt… i felt worse.
Ozeph:
reduction of estrogen which is an antagonist to progesterone. Progesterone converts into allopregnanolone (for those without pfs) and along with the 5ar, I’m trying to get those two neurosteroids back on track.
about this point… i’t’s months that i’m trying to figure out the progesterone enigma. at least for me is an enigma. We know that P -> DHP -> ALLO. But we also know that P is a 5-alpha inhibitor (maybe at huge quantities). So, is P good or bad for 5ar? I suppose that, basically, what P does is keeping the 5ar busy in converting P into DHP. @axolotl, i think that would be useful to have on this forum some expert physicians in dermatology, endocrinology etc. to shed some light on our doubts. what do you think?
Ozeph:
I would top it with a mix of feta cheese and olives
oh, i used to love feta. by the way, aprt form the pfs, i know for sure that eating cheese is very bad for our bones. the fact is that, yes, they’re rich of calcium but they also cause blood acidification and inflammation. to fix this problem our body needs calcium. and what is the biggest calcium source in the body? yes, bones.
Ozeph:
I will change my diet by removing the morning coffee and all dairy products.
what about butter and ghee?
Hi Go.
-Vitamin B absorbs better on an empty stomach.
-Pork is the hardest to digest. chicken and fish are the easiest. I don’t eat pork past 1pm and I don’t eat beef past 6pm.
-I would also feel bad with milk and yogurt. Way too much carbs. Cheese has 3 gr per 100 gr of cheese. So does 35% cream. I stick to those 2 dairies. Butter is negligeable in carbs and calcium, and Ghee has none of those.
oh, i used to love feta. by the way, aprt form the pfs, i know for sure that eating cheese is very bad for our bones. the fact is that, yes, they’re rich of calcium but they also cause blood acidification and inflammation. to fix this problem our body needs calcium. and what is the biggest calcium source in the body? yes, bones.
-From what I know, that comes from having too much calcium in proportion to magnesium. That’s why I don’t go heavy on dairies and I take more than 100% rdi of magnesium
-I won’t remove butter and ghee, and on second thought I won’t remove the little cheese and cream here and there. I might remove the coffee because insomnia is my main problem and caffeine stays 24 hours in the body.,
- Your division in a) b) and c) is a good rule of thumb, but it seems we’re all different and what works for one does not for another. I’m only sure of one thing: doing nothing changes nothing. Diet has worked for me, exercise makes me feel better, and I bet without pfs those two would have made me feel better anyway.
Now I will try alteredlife amino acid method because it makes sense to me, it’s harmless and because why not ?
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I just found out 3 peanuts gives me anxiety. Nice. One more on the list of things that gives me anxiety !
Update:
I now take coconut oil 2 tbsp and 11000ui of vitamin D at lunch and I take half of RDI of magnesium in the afternoon (so I can urinate the extra) as well as a 0 carb protein shake that containd 6gr of glutamine, some Glycine, Tryptophan, Tyrosine, Phenylalanine as well as 8 gr. of BCAAs. All of those helps the insomnia, the brain fod, as well as the groin-brain connection. Plus its made to grow muscle and with the weight lifting Im doing, it does that well.
I decided to move the zinc at dinner, 50mg, as it is uneasy on the stomach unless you buy it in food state.
Before bed, I take coconut oil, 2 tbsp, 1 piece of 99% dark chocolate, some small qty of magnesium chloride and a small protein shake with just water and 2 scoops of powder. I still take sleeping pills.
Im juicing green stuff like cabbage, spinach, kale, celery, and I drink it both during the afternoon and before sleep. Cabbage seems to help with sleep. As a result, sleep has greatly improved. I wake 4-6 times, very drowsy and goes right back to sleep. Before, even with the sleeping pills, I would wake up after 3 hours, and then be in a dreaming zombie state where I would wake up 30-50 times with slight dreams in between and no rest at all. I still have the lack of pleasure and motivation, emotional dullness, but I havent received all the aminos I`m counting on testing on myself, which are as follow. Most of them are for the neurological symptoms and are revolving around the GABA (A) and Dopamine receptors, the creation of the calming neurosteroids and the decrease of cortisol.
Night:
Gaba (100mg-3gr) (can be too much. Try 100-250mg) Update: That made me worst. I stopped
Glycine (1000 mg) (2-3gr) Before Sleep Update: That’s good, but 1000 mg is enough
L-Theanine (200mg) at night or when stressed Update: Taken during the day is better
Glutamine (5-10 gr.) Before sleep Update: That’s good. It makes me sleepy for 1-2 hours
Tryptophan (500-1000mg) Before sleep , up to 3 X a day Update: That made me worst. I stopped
L-Arginine (1000mg) before sleep (for growth hormone) Update: It gives me boners during the night
Ornithine (1-5gr)Before sleep, Convert Amonia into citruline, create Nitric oxide for erections.Update: Same
Taurine (500mg) before sleep. Stimulate the GABA (A) receptor in absence of allopregnanolone. Update: That made me worst. I stopped
Day:
5-HTP (100mg) Twice a day. Update: Great, makes me calm and confident; assertive.
Tyrosine (500-) with 5-HTP. Update: Also good. Clears brain fog, help with concentration and focus.
DLPA (500-1000mg) Update: I take it in the daytime.Still testing it.
Pregnanolone (5 to 25mg) before exercise Update: I upped the dose to 400 mg, felt great for a while then started feeling bad. I slowly decreased to zero with withdrawal symptoms. I may start again at 10-25 mg
L-DOPA (350 mg) Stimulant, feels good, boost sex drive, Update: I take it in the daytime, morning and 3pm. This one puts me in a good mood.
I will work out more specific doses and timing, and post my results.
Hi all -
Just happened to pop back in search for “keto” as I picked up a keto diet after learning that such a diet has been used for treating seizure disorders - I do not have a seizure disorder, but primarily suffer from depression, anxiety and neurological-type symptoms.
I can say with confidence that my keto diet has been the first thing in my 7 years off finasteride that has had a strong correlation to a marked period of improvement. Am I cured? Absolutely not. However, after about 2 weeks on the diet I noticed periods of significantly better mood and less severe panic attacks. I also noticed certain somatic anxiety symptoms - vision issues, sweating palms, fluttering heart, etc. - have not been as pronounced during activities which typically trigger these symptoms.
I have been keto for about a month now, and given that I believe I am continuing to see improvements, I plan to maintain a ketogenic diet for the foreseeable future.
Best,
-7-
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Did it help with libido or any sexual issues, if you have those?
Could you give us an example of what you eat on a normal day? I am going to try this soon.