PFS an adaptation to a higher androgen environment

There seems to be a clear discrepancy in symptom severity when comparing older and younger men with Post Finasteride Syndrome with younger males being more prone to developing PFS. There must be a defining reason why that is and to me it must come down to a higher ratio of Testosterone/DHT in younger males who’s phenotype rely more heavily on androgens, it would seem plausible that the higher the androgens a person produces in site specific tissues then the more prone they are to developing Post Finasteride Syndrome. Many of the people here were gym goers, had high libido, and were relatively young but what’s also noteworthy is that most will probably only experience libido and cognitive issues because 5ar is highly expressed in these site specific areas more so than anywhere else including the prostate, penile tissue and brain thus these sites are usually the ones to be solely affected in PFS patients.

I have also held onto the belief for some time that raising Testosterone can make users symptoms worse, when I got my Testosterone checked it was 8nml below the national average at this point my libido was still okayish, I still felt androgenic and muscles still had power, I could still play video games and socialize so neurosteroids were still working. For 2 days straight I worked out like I was training for the Olympics for 4 hours at a time this consisted of heavy weight lifting, HIT workout, running, and boxing I was pushing myself to the utmost extreme but what was noticeable in the days that followed was that I lost libido, penile shrinkage, brain fog, eye floaters and had systematic muscle weakness whereby my muscles felt like they were dying off if you have ever had DOMS (delayed onset muscle soreness) from the gym then imagine this 100 fold I legitimately was unable to walk for weeks.

I believe the reason why men “may” see improvements with time is that simply Testosterone levels lower by 1% every year after the age of 30 and methylation decreases with age reducing the sensitivity of overexpressed receptors. I think we have been attacking Post Finasteride Syndrome the completely wrong way. I believe the receptors in our bodies have undergone an epigenetic change and adapted to a “higher androgen environment” essentially our systems are misreading that there is supraphysiological amounts of androgens and are chronically down regulating receptors in response through epigenetic mechanisms- it would seem that lowering our androgens and keeping them chronically low may be a potential therapeutic option as a treatment for Post Finasteride Syndrome.

I believe also why some may respond better to TRT, Proviron or Tribulus is because they have enough working receptors that haven’t been epigenitically modified if someone is the opposite and supplements TRT and they haven’t enough working receptors and are all downregulated and overexpressed this will then have the opposite affect and can make a patient worse causing further desensitization.

If we look at Spinal and bulbar muscular atrophy (SBMA) which shows some comparative contrasts to PFS then this study seemed interesting:
Suppression of testosterone levels for 14 years resulted in a slower disease progression, as measured prospectively with quantitative measurements, than the historical control data reported in previous studies. This suggests that long-term androgen deprivation delays disease progression in SBMA.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6709315/

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Isn’t butyrate good for demythlation of the androgen receptors?

Butryate crashed me into oblivion, I haven’t left bed in over a month now and that isn’t the therapy I’m suggesting here. I’m talking about chronically keeping androgens low in the hopes that the body adapts to a lower androgen environment and upregulates the expression of receptors and reduces overexpression.

I don’t think it’s a case of androgen levels , i have a very low test in the 300s ( albeit hight E2 and prolactin) and many PFS sufferers on here have low test too , it’s certainy more to do with the androgen receptors , people like us certainly have a genetic predisposition which make their receptors fragile

Wouldn’t a chronically low androgen environment upregulate AR?

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Hmmm, so we should take fina again then?

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Indeed many individuals here do have low androgens and this I think is in response due to supraphysiological amounts of DHT surging into hypersensitive tissues causing a shutdown. Even if we’re producing lower amounts of androgens it’s still too much for the receptors to handle and for me the genetic predisposition is simply high androgens in specific tissues if not then why is theere a clear comparable difference between ages when it comes to Post Finasteride Syndrome we’re not seeing too many 60 year olds landing here if at all that’s not to say they don’t exist just that younger men seem to be more predisposed to PFS.

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Finasteride lowers DHT but increases Testosterone so it wouldn’t work we need to induce an epigenetic change to respond to a lower androgen environment.

That’s what is supposed to happen but there is some sort of epigenetic modality that is preventing this from happening.

Nothing that hasn’t been theorized before… but also with lower testosterone your estrogen gets lowered as well so that could explain why your libido gets SLIGHTLY better.

But you aren’t feeling “cured” or a “reversal” by lowering androgens.Just slightly better.

Whenever I raise androgens I feel worse and this is the same for many others here some not being able to go to the gym or workout anymore. Why is raising androgens making individuals worse off is it simply estrogen dominance, why did I feel so much better when my Testosterone was below the national average including neurologically? What I am proposing here isn’t just about keeping androgens chronically low it’s about creating an epigenetic change

I think everything revolve around dht , finasteride downregulate dht which result in overexpressed receptors , don’t you think that upregulating dht whilst resensitizing the ar might bring things to normal ? i think we need to follow the same pattern as finasteride , although we need to go in the opposite direction

Have you tried to raise your dht without raising your testosterone ? maybe the side effect you’re getting are from your E2 who goes up with your T , E2 seems to be the common denominator in every side effect

So what you’re saying is here we should be using anti androgens to feel better? Soy foods , pumpkin seed oil, green tea?

No absolutely not as they have worsened people here and neither would be strong enough to induce a change. What I’m proposing will require a pharmacological compound strong enough to keep Testosterone suppressed and in the care of a physician in the hopes that these epigenetic changes will be reversed. If T is suppressed, the body will have to adapt to it’s new environmental that being a low androgen environment and the hope is that this will erase the site specific alterations and upregulate receptors in response.

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Everyone’s different, soy sauce makes me feel like shit

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I hear ya …I’d probs be too scared to try something like that to be honest . After finasteride use I’m careful with any powerful pharmaceutical medicine usage. Interesting theories though , have you been able to see any of the PFS doctors yet?

Yeah! Everyone’s different with these things!
Green tea and tofu is part of my diet so I’d probably never give those up. I was taking pumpkin seed oil capsules until recently but giving them a break for a bit to see if they were making things worse , doubt it though

I’m sorry but just about everything in this thread is wrong.

People have Low T and still have PFS. I have 900ng/dl natty and still have PFS.

You feel better with lower androgens because estrogen gets lowered.

The drug that gave me PFS does not lower DHT. Minoxidil does not alter serum hormones at all. PFS is not about DHT.

Proviron does much more to transcriptional factors in our body than it does to serum hormone levels, and even then it’s not a 100% guaranteed treatment for PFS.

Proviron is a failed treatment for Post Finasteride Syndrome I do not know why there is a fixation on this treatment as of late it seems to me like the same vicious cycles keep repeating themselves here when it comes to treatments instead of thinking outside the box. Minoxidil also seems to suppress androgen related functions in other words may act as an anti-androgen which is what landed us all here in the first place.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4039155/

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