another question if this was our real problem…is it reverseble? is possible to reverse enzyme function?
and…nobody more had a androstenedione test?
I don’t know, I’m not an endocrinologist. Would have to research more, but I believe likely treatment would be androgen replacement (TRT). Something else I came across was this (hypospadia is an undeveloped penis)… but note the pathways involved, some of which are discussed in this thread already:
Defects of the Testosterone Biosynthetic Pathway in Boys With Hypospadias
linkinghub.elsevier.com/retrieve … 4701648936
Purpose
We determined the incidence of defects in 3 enzymes, namely 3 beta-hydroxysteroid dehydrogenase, 17 alpha-hydroxylase and 17,20-lyase, on the testosterone biosynthetic pathway in boys with hypospadias.
Materials and Methods
We evaluated 30 boys with a 46,XY karyotype, fully descended testes and penoscrotal or proximal shaft hypospadias. Serum concentrations of the metabolites mediated by these enzymes were measured, from which the precursor-to-product ratios were calculated. Seven patients underwent adrenocorticotropic hormone stimulation. Findings were compared to previously published data on age matched normal boys.
Results
A total of 11 boys had evidence of impaired function of 3 beta-hydroxysteroid dehydrogenase alone or in combination with impaired 17,20-lyase or 17 alpha-hydroxylase activity. An additional 4 boys had evidence of isolated 17,20-lyase deficiency. Thus, of the 30 boys studied 15 (50%) had evidence of a testosterone biosynthetic defect. The effect of adrenocorticotropic hormone stimulation varied with widening of the precursor-to-product ratios in some boys and narrowing in others.
Conclusions
A high incidence of 3 beta-hydroxysteroid dehydrogenase and 17,20-lyase deficiency was found in boys with proximal hypospadias. The response to adrenocorticotropic hormone stimulation suggests that enzymes in the adrenal glands and testes may be affected independently. Our findings support the hypothesis that hypospadias is the result of fetal endocrinopathy.
If we take some form of TRT, is Testosterone going to increase with this damaged or greatly reduced 17B-HSD enzyme?
And if it did increase wouldn’t this only be temporary- whilst on TRT ?
We would need to take artificial Testosterone for the rest of our lives, not good for our health I believe ?
A lot of questions I know, but I had to get it of my chest.
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I got the saliva tests done through the representatives of Diagnos-Techs here in the UK, the Red Apple Clinic - wasn’t it you solonjk who advised me to get tests done by Diagnos-Techs? I can’t remember now. They probably have representatives in other countries, you’re in Greece as I recall?
Androstenedione comes under the Male Hormone Panel. My Testosterone level was 31 (50-80pm/ml for 31-40 age range). They send you a diagram of the Androgen Pathway with results for Progesterone, Androstenedione, Testo, Estrone and DHT.
The problem is I’ve had these results since July last year but can’t find anyone interested in looking at them! What a waste.
Cheers
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Yes, Solonjk, I’ll certainly take all my test results to Chrousos.
I posted my saliva test results, including DHEA and cortisol, in my thread ‘My Blood Test Results’ Page 4 in the section Hormone & Blood Tests. the last ones were last summer 2008.
Just wanted to add to this thread and indicate that I too have excessive Androstenedione. I had both blood and urine testing done earlier this year, after being on clomiphene citrate for several weeks (see My Recovery via Clomid later pages).
Androstenedione was 297 ng/dL on a range of 30 to 260. I will need to fin the urine results but they are over normal range as well.
I have excess androstandione as well…my last test on jan. 14 shows a value of
342 Range: (0-50)
maybe we all have adrenal fatigue and our bodies are forced to exert other hormones or exhaust them.
I dont know, just a theory I suppose.
Maybe we should have a Sticky thread similar to the Adiol-G thread of “Post your Androstenedione levels here” as it sure seems like everyone that has posted is above the range.
I don’t know what to think of this theory. Not many of us have low T values, me included. It’s rather high. Though, my androstenedione is out of ranges high. But my low LH still indicates that everything is okay in the making of testosterone in the Leydig cells.
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Is there particular testing for 3α-hydroxysteroid or 17bhydroxysteroid deficiencies?
I found this application for a method for modulating 3ahsd…
faqs.org/patents/app/20090171639
anyway, if people have out of range HIGH DHT and LOW adiol-g i beleive it doesnt point to a 3ahsd malfunction.
i was also wondering if there is a way to test of this — it seems pretty key
Yes there is such testing. Its the same as acth stimulation test only you measure not only cortisol but also progesterone and something else. Its standard testing really cause its done with children who are suspected of congential adrenal hyperplasia.
I was suppose to have these tests done last week but i chickened out cause i felt so incredible bad after the last acth stim test i had and have been feeling under alot of stress lately so did not want to push it.
I posted similar theory recently and i still believe that this or very similar issue is our problem. Could be different enzymes but its something in this chain that isent working properly.
When do you plan to re-take the test?
i really dont know.
Im suppose to call them when im up for it. Depends on the way i feel really. Lately ive been alot worse than previously so i doubt i will get it done very soon. Hoping during Feb.
It’s great you have found a lab willing to do such tests… I’m guessing you are referring to testing of 3a-HSD enzyme activity?
If so you might want to reconsider holding off based on emotional reactions though, as getting tested sooner enables you to get more answers sooner. regardless of emotional state.
In other words, the sooner you have results the sooner you can either investigate further into the tested area or discard it as a dead end.
Its pretty standard really. Hospital lab. Its 17 hydroxy and i belive 3a aswell. Just have to consult my doc so we do test for everything possible this time so i dont have to do it again.
Its not so much the emotional part of it. My body freaks out when i did the acth stim test last time and im allrdy under alot of stress. Im infact abit scared of taking it.