PAS, PFS, PSSD common denominator?

General Discussion
#21

Also going back to my little diagram there, I’m also looking at the simple fact that everything dht related and hormones in general have been looked at for a very long time. (I’m not saying these aren’t being affected or that there aren’t studies or even blood tests to back up this notion.)

As far as the androgen receptor being the driving factor for everything though? I maybe see some holes in that plot. Especially when it comes to comparing drugs like Accutane and SSRIs.
It seems after a period of time its been acknowledged that PFS goes beyond 5ar inhibitors to say it can be caused by any anti-androgens.
Maybe it goes beyond androgens and we could say steroid hormones in general are being affected, whether thats blood levels or the receptor sites. Maybe it goes beyond steroids that also include their synthesis and metabolism from cholesterol.
^ and maybe it goes beyond all that.
I just keep an open mind im not committed to not being wrong about some of this or assume too much.
I actually think if we really figure this out, we are going to figure out a hell of alot more than PFS in the process.

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#22

@guitarman01 Minoxidil improves hairloss through nothing other than blood flow not dht. So maybe something in that.

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#23

Minoxidil is an antiandrogenic substance. It decreases 5ar gene expression.

#24

Minoxidil maybe seems to be firstly regarded as a vasodilator as to how it works.

Minoxidil is a potassium channel opener, causing hyperpolarization of cell membranes and it is also a vasodilator, it is speculated that, by widening blood vessels and opening potassium channels, it allows more oxygen, blood and nutrients to the follicle.

There seems to be plenty on here that seem to have blood flow issues.I know I am one of them.
Or maybe vascular constriction. This could go hand in hand with muscle contraction or tense muscles.
ive looked back at some of my photos and my face has always been unusually pale since Accutane.

Not only that, talking about tense muscles or penis curvature, that could literally be just a contracted muscle that doesnt relax right there. Same with whats perceived as a shortening of distance from the rectum to the scrotum, a contracted muscle that dosent relax, and you see the proximity to the genitals.
Eventually some of this could become more of a problem as it starts to constrict blood flow.

#25

Minoxidil is both a vasodilator and an anti-androgen.

Some decent material discussing this:

It was found to bind AR, reduce expression of androgen-responsive genes, and reduce growth of androgen-driven prostate cancer.

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#26

Interesting didn’t know it minoxidil effected DHT.
I wonder what would happen if they put hairloss patients on accutane?

#27

More hair loss. That’s where the plot thickens.

#28

Just giving my two cents here, when i took Accutane just for 2 days and quit because of my semen volume problem. I remember getting the dry skin, chapped lips and back pain problems at the day 2! This is not even common i think. People get these side effects after a week or so.

My dry face and back pain persisted and went away few days after discontinuing. Extreme sensivity i guess?

#29

After treatment definitely, but during treatment might be a total reversal of hairloss. I’m not a true believer in the DHT hairloss stuff due to my own experience, I think an inflammatory response has a key role to it. Like how accutane stimulates the adrenals/cortisol, could lower follicular inflammation.

#30

I think its pretty safe to say hair loss can occur while on Accutane, its a documented and well known side effect similar to vitamin a toxicity. I sure wouldnt take Accutane to try to treat hair loss. Just like what they say with Fin with sexual sides, its suppose to grow back after treatment or is temporary.
Thats not the case.
Plenty say while alot of their hair did grow back, it was never as full and thick as it used to be.
I am in the same camp as you though where my total diffuse hair shedding didnt start happening until after I came off the drug. Scalp hair, eyebrows, and body hair thinned out and my scalp hair never returned to full thickness. Scalp hair seemed to wax and wane almost similar to an allergy or immune response.
Thats actually what my dermatologist told me that prescribed Accutane when I went back and told him. He said it wasnt the Accutane and he thought it was allergies and would come and go.
He wanted me to go see the guy that invented rogaine in Chicago.
Accutane definitely provoked this and It never corrected itself.

#31

All the substances are antiandrogenic to some degree.

#32

Right, but I’m also saying propecia treats hair loss while Accutane causes it.

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#33

Finasteride was actually found to increase rate of shedding beyond baseline after cessation.

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#34

From what I’ve read high and low levels of Retinoids can cause hairloss, like it needs a perfect balance.

Does finestride mess with RA levels , have searched but can’t find anything?

#35

No, but excess retinoids mess with androgen levels.

#36

Maybe we just dealing with some type of increased inflammatory thing. I have made some improvements on antibiotics and it looks like PFS people do to. Maybe something in that.

#37

Do you know if Trazadone is anti-androgenic? I am surprised that SSRI would really have a lot of effect on androgens if its effect is as indirect as I understand, which is basically that they increase serotonin somewhat, which in turn has impact on androgen levels.

#38

I cannot give medical advice, but I can share anecdotally that I knew someone with severe sexual dysfunction side effects from Accutane. He was prescribed Trazodone by a doctor and it resulted in major worsening of his sexual symptoms. I believe he later took his own life. Be careful.

#39

What about the common denominator being Fatty Liver??? Thoughts ???

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#40

I’ve exactly taken both of those, and I do think I had medium level sexual symptoms after the Accutane and then much worse sexual symptoms after the Trazadone.