Isn’t the way to produce BetaHydroxyButyrate from doing a keto/carnivore diet? And if so why are you eating only 25% of your calories as protein?
Hi Ozeph, just curious where you gathered that people with PFS have high inflammation. It certainly wouldn’t surprise me if they do, just curious what direct evidence you might have come across.
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I don’t. I couldn’t try a normal diet and a carnivore/ketogenic diet at the same time to compare.
A Russian epigenetic specialist told one of my (Russian) friend pfs was an epigenetic disease and he told him to “eat meat only” as a way to get better.
Then there is this:
Update: I must warn you. I tried raw meat, couldn’t digest it nor sleep that night and spent the next day being drowsy, brain fogged and tired, what seemed as moderate narcolepsy and muscle weakness, what seems as moderate cataplexy which accompanies narcolepsy. I did my research and it seems humans were able to shrink their intestine and enlarge their brain BECAUSE of the use of fire to use fire to break complex bonds, in a similar way enzymes do. My conclusion in that the primal diet is so primal, it predates our enlarged brain and shortened intestines, as far as some meat is concerned.
Also to confirm the warning above, Gamma Hydroxy Butryrate can have mortal effects if taken with other sedatives like benzodiazepene and many more (check it out, the list of interactions is long)
Nonetheless, the two guys in the video claim to have gotten better eating meat and while in my opinion they eat too much of it and not enough fat to be ketogenic, it’s certainly an anecdotal element that goes in a similar direction as the diet I’m doing. (which is super boring by the way. Over 2 years now. If it wasn’t for the fear of having some pfs symptoms coming back, I’d go nuts on regular food.)
Note that Michael in this story eats less fat and more protein than I do and also eats fruits (carbs), which I don’t. He’s not ketogenic and has achieved less recovery than I did although it may not be correlated.
@ acne1776
BHB is produced from fat, not protein.
Ketogenic diets do not have to be carnivore, they can have plants also. They only need to be high fat (70% calories intake from fat) and low carbs (less than 5%, maybe 4%, I’d have to check).
However, you can’t live without proteins, eating only fat. You’d loose muscle and eventually become sick and die.
Carnivore diet do not have to be ketogenic. It means eating only animal products. If you eat too much protein, you won’t get into ketosis as you will burn protein as fuel instead of fat. This is why I always mention my diet is a carnivore/ketogenic diet as it fits the description of both at the same time. To be fair, carnivore diet includes fat cuts of meat so it includes animal fat, but not 70% of calories intake. You can live on a regular carnivore diet and you can live on a carnivore/ketogenic diet. Some people have done it over 20 years. Inuits in my home country fed exclusively on meat products all their life. It may or may not have shortened their life as protein creates MTOR which is detrimental to longevity. This is why I eat protein only once a day to minimize as much as possible the MTOR.
As @vkg1 wrote, I modified the ketogenic diet to be meat product only so I eliminate inflammation from plant food. I only eat animal fat, mostly ghee as it has 2%butyric acid which is very beneficial to the guts…
I’ve read it on this forum and also that many of us develop food allergies after they crashed. I’ve read it in articles but I can’t pinpoint the source. You can take it at face value or question it and do your research. If you do, please send me articles. I’m always eager to learn more.
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An advantage of carnivore is that it effectively eliminates diet-induced inflammation or general food sensitivities as potential explanation for health problems.
Source?
@Ozeph
So what about eggs and chicken meat, and pork? Is it safe too?How do you get your fibre in? How you do consume ghee?
Here’s what I think:
Free range chicken and eggs are good, I’ve heard soya fed chicken and eggs are full of estrogen and not too good for us (you can double check this). Pork and pork fat is ok, but harder to digest and pork fat has more LDL (bad cholesterol) than beef fat and ghee which are high in HDL (good cholesterol). Still good though.
When I’m fully carnivore/ketogenic, either I don’t get fibers or I make an effort to drink a mix of water, inulin (soluble fiber) and potato starch (100% resistant starch if not heated). With or without didn’t seem to make a difference for me. Meat and fat is so dense in nutriments my stool were very small and I didn’t get constipated.
As for Ghee, I was putting lots of it when cooking my meat and eating it in liquid form with a spoon with the meat juices. I also do bullet proof, no sugar, coffee in the morning with 2-3 tbsp of ghee and when I’m in a rush and want some energy, I just gulp down 2-3 tbsp of ghee straight from the can (which is at room temperature so the ghee is soft)
Now, I eat 100 gr of cooked lentil puree (Indian Dal) which is about 30 gr of dried lense, for 10 gr of fiber, 10 of carbs and some proteins. I mix the melted ghee in the pureed lentils and use a whisk to make the fibers absorb the fat. I put lemon juice, 100ge of steamed kale and chopped beef, sometime an egg, mix the whole thing and that has been my single meal a day for a year, around 1700 calories in one meal.
The first year I was more carnivore but now that most symptoms are gone I don’t mind having some lentils and kale. Kale is packed with vitamins and proteins, have lots of fibers and is very low carbs.
If I had more symptoms, I would probably eliminate all plants.
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Evidence?
Found it in a Thomas Delauer video.
Usually I try to do my best to structure my sentences so that they could not be considered factual, despite what I consider to be facts. I would put words like “in my opinion, I believe, I think, from my experience etc…”
Sometimes I forget to put those in a sentence. My wrong. I corrected the post.
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Thorough article on the mechanism behind pfs and a call for its recognition:
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0015028219325993
It goes along many things we’ve discussed on this forum, while dismissing others. The bad news is it states that "The pharmacokinetics of finasteride and dutasteride are as such that they are nearly irreversible inhibitor of 5α-Rs, with slow rate of dissociation, leading to a long-lasting effect of the drug, regardless of dose administered. " which "may lead to epigenetic changes, such as DNA methylation of the androgen receptor gene or the 5α-reductases genes. "
It’s a long read, with all the citations, and goes in the direction of what this site is trying to accomplish: recognition of PFS.
Provides no cure though but it does accurately describe the types of epigenetic changes that occurs. Personally, I will stick with what I consider to do “epigenetic repair” as suggested here:
(Beware of the food suggestions. Resveratrol, curcumin, catechins and quercetin Have all made me feel bad and are on the restricted list on this site, I believe)
and here:
I’m taking Nicotinamide Mononucleotide as a NAD+ booster and got good results from it.
If I ever get a few extra millions, I will go see Dr. David Sinclair, show him all the evidence and I’m sure he would have at least some leads as to what to do. He erased all epigenetic markers on mice (but I don’t know how the mice did after !)
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Ozeph, what if i’m already too skinny and having muscle wastage from symptoms.
i feel i cant do keto. and also my family doest contribute. i just cant do keto. what should i do?
should i take BHB salts? would it work even if i keep eating carbs?
I recommend reading about Sinclair’s recommendations, maybe even his book, if you have determined you can’t do what Ozeph is doing.
BHB salts could help on the days your doing the tricks below. Butyric acid supplements would help your guts and guts biome.
There’s a way to be keto/carnivore and gain weight with targeted carbs intake but it seems impossible for you due to circumstances
@vkg1 is right. Dr. David Sinclair recommendations could help. I tried them all, and also the meds/supplements he’s suggesting and I can tell you Resveratrol is not good for pfs. Metformin was bad in my case because I’m keto, I don’t know if it would do you good. Same with Trans-Pterostilbene. However, the NAD+ boosters and Nicotinamide Mononuclotide (NMN) were really helpful.
Other natural tricks are hot saunas, cold shower (or both in succession), and running out of breath exercise. Whatever the exercise, running out of breath is what triggers the benefits.
There’s exercise while carbs being depleted if you can manage to deplete your carbs through fasting.
To gain weight, you can eat a mixture of carbs and fat. Donuts come to mind but there’s healthier alternatives. I make oatmeal with ghee (clarified butter) and I did increase my body fat from below 12% to 12-14%. I didn’t eat much of it.
For muscle gain, it’s protein, creatine and weight lifting. But pfs must be under control to attemp that.
After 2 years, I’ve lowered most supplement and became more strict on the diet.
Here is my complete regimen:
Upon waking up:
5-HTP 50mg
Tyrosine 500mg
L-Dopa 350mg
Half pill of most Vitamin B (1,3,6,12, biotin)
Nicotinamide MonoNucleotide (NMN), a NAD+ precursor.
Sex herb of the week, which I cycle: Pine Pollen, Trubulus Terrestris, Horny Goat Weed
Careful, some have had adverse reactions to these. Try little and wait before increasing to normal dose. If you have bad reactions, stop.
Breakfast:
Coffee with coconut milk, no sugar. I use 0 carbs sweetener, it may not be good for all.
3 tbsp Ghee, pinch of salt
Blend in a jar with an electric whip.
Right After Coffee:
Half Multi-vitamins for men
500iu or 1000 iu of vitamin D3
25mg of zinc (half a pill)
One day I take Boron 3 mcg
The other day I take Vitamin A 5000iu
Careful, some have had adverse reactions to vitamin A.
I do at least some exercise every day. Exercise is mostly resistance training but also some cardio.
3pm on empty stomach:
Vitamin B3 Niacinamide
Sex Herb of the week.
Pre dinner at 4pm
Often, I will eat two time within a 1-2 hours window.
The first meal is meat with 1 duck egg and ghee (some low sodium salt)
Dinner around 5pm, sometime only meal of the day:
Fat ground beef 150 gr (or some other fat cut of steak), 4 tbsp of ghee, 1 free range duck egg, 50gr of steamed spinach and the equivalent of 1 tbsp of dry lentils, cooked into a puree (I make large batches AND FREEZE), lemon juice and low sodium salt (60% potasium, 40% sodium)
Fat can also be partly lard or tallow.
I first melt the ghee with the lentil puree with lemon juice and low sodium salt. I whip to a cream and add beef and spinach.
I eat with 100 gr of unpeeled cucumber, 12 olives and often 1 can (50gr) of mackerel (tomato sauce drained). I always sleep better when I ate mackerel.
1 glass containing 150ml of the magnesium mix below, and sparkling water.
After 6pm
I don’t drink any liquids so I don’t have to wake up and pee at night. That really messes up my night and the next day.
I only drink the morning coffee, the magnesium mix and water. Nothing else.
I need 3-4 hours to digest the food before taking sleeping meds or herbs or they will mix with the food and mess up my night
10pm:
3.5 mg Clonazepam (sleeping pill)
20 mg Hydroxyzine (anti-histamine)
10 mg Melatonin (also fixes epigenetic damage by itself)
1000 mg Valerian extract
500mg Lemon Balm extract
500mg Passion flower extract
500mg Hops extract
That won’t even make me yawn or sleepy until I take:
Before sleep and at least 30 minutes after taking the previous pills:
2 tbsp Oatmeal (Rolled Oat), 2 tbsp of water, 1 tbsp of ghee, 1 tsp of Inusitol (vit B8)
Facultative: 0 carbs sweetener and/or vanilla, pinch of salt
Mix than add ghee, Microwave 30-45 seconds and mix again
This raises insulin and lowers cortisol. The insulin and drop of cortisol usually knocks me out and I barely have time to do my evening meditation before falling asleep.
I keep 700mg of Inusitol in a pill, and 250mg of Chamomile extract, 250mg of hops extracts in another pill next to my bed. When I almost inevitably wake up after sleeping 5 hours, I take those 2 pills and go back to sleep. I’ll finish the night dreaming and waking up a few times. This is not the dreaming zombie state of tossing around and barely dreaming surface dreams close to reality. What I get is derived from that but it has gotten much better over the years. It’s actually quite pleasant to have all those dreams every days.
Also note that despite taking lots of sleep meds and supplements, I didn’t build up tolerance and sleep quality is improving with time. I intent to reduce those meds and herbs when sleep is good enough
Magnesium mix :
In a 1.5 liter bottle: Magnesium Chloride 10 gr, Potassium Chloride 5 gr, Creatine 5 gr, 150 ml apple cider vinegar, fill with water to the rim. I take no more than 150ml a day, before 6pm so I have time to urinate the extra magnesium. mix with soda water to fill the glass. It’s delicious.
Conclusion
As you can see, I am not cured. But all neurological (no more anxiety), physical and sexual symptoms are gone except for slightly lower sex drive but still above others of my age (I’m 53) and insomnia which is kept under control and stable with the meds and herbs.
I have a good quality of life and could live the rest of my life like this. However, I see slow improvement in sleep so I believe within 2-3 years I will be better yet.
Is there a cure ? I don’t know. But I found a way to make my life normal and be alert and productive during the day and sleep at night.
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So whats your exprience?
I was crashy… I don’t really “crash” anymore. But sleep got worst until days became foggy and unproductive. I stopped, went back to my baseline diet and everything got back to normal. Resveratrol is not for me.
Here is a video which focuses on sleep, might be helpful for you, to listen through:
Its really good and maybe one of the best insights on that topic.
Sorry to hear that the insomnia is still with you. How’s the Nicotinamide Mononucleotide been treating you? Any downsides to taking it?
It removed my burning lips (which is a reduced symptom of other people’s dry skin) and my burning eyes.
After and before I crashed those were real issues, Lately they only happened during/after showers from contact with soap, but now it’s gone.
I tolerate it well, no side effects from it, and aside from the above benefits I read it helps repairs the epigenome. It had positive effects on the last few symptoms I had beside insomnia so I guess it helps.
Thanks ! I don’t suffer from it. I just needs to take meds and herbs and I sleep well (above average deep sleep and lots of dreams. I have a sleep monitor). I wake up well rested and have productive days.
Aside from having to take those pills, my life is normal and I have no symptoms.
How are you doing with this disease ? Any improvements ?
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No, its more general but imo the best source for sleep problems