No 5 AR 2 because of Gene suppression

General Discussion
#1

Look at what I attached. It’s the medical study done on 5 AR 2.

Something to note is that when I went to the doctor and got my DHT levels checked, my doctor said, ah yes you have perfectly normal DHT, I would not expect balding from someone with DHT in that range. I have also been off fin for almost 2 years. These gene switches below may have been turned off, causing less DHT to be made. I read another article suggesting DHT is the one that regulates 5 ar 2, which also could explain it. Although DHT is still “normal” which is confusing… but read on…

Okay so I am reading about 5 AR deficiency and talking to a fellow propecia help member when I find the 5 ar reductase deficiency problem which some people are born with aka being a hermaphrodite. Now I don’t know any of the scientific things behind being a hermaphrodite, however based on symptoms, I’d say many people here are experiencing a similar phenomenon. I mean, people testicles are shrinking, no libido, losing emotions, it’s like we are going closer to middle ground. Plus, look at what finasteride actually does, it STOPS 5 AR 2.

So I’m researching 5 ar 2 and find this article.

I found an article relating to 5 AR 2 and the reason why some people have it and some people don’t. The article goes to say…

“We have demonstrated that the 5-AR
2 gene contains a CpG dinucleotide island that is
capable of being methylated. We show a strong correlation between methylation of the 5-AR 2 promoter
region and absence of 5-AR 2 expression.”

Basically, in regular people’s understanding and my own understanding from research, is that 5 ar 2 can either be released or not released by a switch. The study goes on to say (regarding what causes the switch to be on or off)…

“. Therefore, the most plausible explanation is
that somatic, and not hereditary, epigenetic changes
affect expression of 5-AR 2. We propose that epigenetic
changes associated with methylation and repression
of 5-AR 2 most likely occurs in early to midadulthood, a time when there is significant phasic
growth of prostate glandular and stromal tissue
[2,27,28].”

The above is saying that something epigenetic (out of the body’s control like diet or something you take) can inhibit whether you release the 5 AR 2 or not, or it is switched on or off.

Now I don’t know anyone’s 5 AR 2 level or anything like that because I’m not sure if we can get it tested. My friend online, who’s on this forum, said it’s possible, but hard to find, however… this article states how to change the switch and turn on the 5 AR 2:

“To determine whether DNA demethylating agents
can reactivate 5-AR 2 gene, BPH-1 cells were treated
with 5-aza-CdR. After exposure of BPH-1 cells to 5-
Aza-CdR, we found that 5-AR 2 RNA expression is
re-expressed to the same degree as the BPE cells which
were used as positive controls (Fig. 3C). This data
demonstrates that the 5-AR 2 gene contains a CpG
island that is methylated, and the demethylating agent,
5-aza-CdR, reactivates the expression of 5-AR 2 gene.”

What if this is the link? We just need to restart the 5 ar 2 in our bodies to be made again? I don’t know about the drug they used or how it works, but 5 ar 2 could be what we are trying to make again?
5ar2 gene suppression.pdf (292 KB)

1 Like
#2

Unfortunately it is unlikely because:

  1. DHT supplementation doesn’t work when it should. (Some people try to counteract this argument by saying its the paracrine actions of DHT that exert its effects but I think that a high dose would compensate for this)

  2. Our DHT levels are often normal or even high

The drug you mention is a demethylating agent and if it were safer would be considered as a treatment as it is likely that methylation can play a key. The question is where. It is possible part of the AR CpG island has been methylated but more complex mechanisms are likely involved to keep it that way.

Epigenetics hold the key to our problem and is the next big step in biology as a whole.

#3

You cant rule this out. (5ar2 defecincy of some sort)
I dont think dht is that great of a marker for this.
We really need to see some allpro and thdoc results.

#4

I went to a doctor recently who told me that he thinks I’m basically going through puberty again, that it takes a loooong time for the enzyme which has been inhibited by finasteride to come back online. He referenced the hermaphrodites lacking 5AR.

He also thought that drugs like clomiphene were ultimately suppressive and counterproductive.

I wonder what the longest anyone here has gone completely off finasteride, and w/o any major drug treatment or intervention (hormones of any sort).

And if anybody who has abstained from all therapies upon discontinuation of finasteride…have come back online after, say, 5 or 7 years. Perhaps the types of people who would just move on w/ their lives and not engage in proactive therapies (and eventually heal) are the types that would not ever visit this site in the first place, or not bother to come back.

I know, of course, that some people here have been suffering with PFS around a decade (I’m at 4 years, myself), but my perception is that most of us in this long-term suffering camp have (understandably) taken hormones.

#5

Interesting. Did he elaborate any further? Clomid is a staple among some “experts” dealing with pfs patients.

#6

Im back for good claims in the recovery section he recovered naturally after 7 years.
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