Thanks a lot brother.
I hope that these so called receptors or whatever it is that converts Testosterone to DHT are not permanently damaged…
I’ll see if I can get a test done for my current DHT levels…
That’s something of a wild guess considering there are no DHT readings.
@Casual Generally, blood test results don’t tell us much in PFS patients, at least insofar as actionable measures that can be pursued. Many patients show high or low testosterone readings, high or low estrogen readings, high or low DHT… you get the picture. Many patients have tried TRT or other traditional endocrinological therapies with either no improvement or a worsening to their symptoms. A fortunate minority have reported some improvement. There’s just no “oh your hormone readings mean this, so if you take this and this dosage, you’ll be fine” with PFS. I wouldn’t get too invested in what blood tests can tell you so soon after you’ve crashed.
So doing a DHT test is purposeless?
What is your best advice, just to wait it out?
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just an update, 8 weeks off.
I seem to have recovered for about 75%.
Symptoms bothering me the most for now:
- Tinnitus and a bit of earache (50% less)
- Fatigue
- Penile issues (e.g. erection doesn’t get super thick and full as pre-fin days)
- Slight muscle soreness
Hope to recover in a linear way without a crash in the upcoming weeks…
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Found an article about the correlation between sex hormones and the inner ear.
Estrogen
Estrogens influence physiological functions of many organs and systems in both female and male, including the skeletal, cardiovascular, and nervous systems, as well as the male urogenital tracts, mammary glands, and female reproductive organs. Estrogen could lead to neural excitation and thus facilitate auditory transmission, but the possible increase in neurosteroids in the brainstem may counteract this effect. Estrogen may act as an auditory protectant, which influences the inner ear at different levels, at the cochlea, vestibular organs, and more proximal levels.
Estrogens are mediated through estrogen receptors (ERs). There are at least three and possibly four distinct estrogen receptors. The most common estrogen receptors are ERα, which is encoded by a gene on chromosome 6, and ERβ, encoded by a gene on chromosome 14. Other ERs include G protein-coupled receptor (GFER, GPR30, and a putative receptor (ER-X), which has been studied mostly in brain [5]. Estrogen receptors α and β containing cells were also found in the inner ear, with a specific distribution pattern, both in auditory pathways and in the water/ion regulating areas. The presence of ERs in the inner ear cell nuclei implies that estrogen may have an influence on the inner ear and auditory functions. Estrogen receptors have been found in the inner ear of rats and mice in different cell types, including inner and outer hair cells, stria vascularis, spiral ligament, Reissner’s membrane, and spiral ganglion cells especially type I cells [5]. Moreover, estrogen receptors in the auditory epithelium of vertebrates also occur in fishes [6], cichlid [7], songbird [5], and rodents [8], which suggest a widespread occurrence of steroid-dependent auditory plasticity among the vertebrates.
Many clinical and basic studies have proved that estradiol plays an important role in auditory physiology, neuronal plasticity, and the metabolic levels of neurotransmitters [18, 19]. ERα might change cochlea and vestibular sensory transduction, and ERβ may have a neuroprotective effect in the inner ear [9]. ERβ protects the auditory system from acoustic trauma in young male and female mice. ERβ in accordance with brain-derived neurotrophic factor (BDNF) promotes neuronal plasticity and protection against trauma in the auditory system [[20](https://www.intechopen.com/books/sex-hormones-in-neurodegenerative-processes-and-diseases/sex-hormones-and-inner-ear#B20)]. But experimental estrogen-induced hyperprolactinemia leads to hearing loss in the guinea pig. It suggests that otic capsule and hair cell pathology related with estrogen-induced prolonged hyperprolactinemia and conditions such as pregnancy may lead to similar auditory pathology [21]. 17β-estradiol leads to adjustments in the molecular biology of the cochlea and the inferior colliculus of mouse accompanied with behavioral alternations [22]. Estrogen-related receptor gama (ESSR) plays a role in maintenance of hearing in both humans and mice [23].
Quick update, I’ll be hitting the 3 month mark this Friday. I noticed major improvement in my symptoms in a weeks time.
Symptoms that currently still bother me:
- Tinnitus in my left ear (10%-20% remains), it has decreased in volume a lot in the past week.
- Fatigue, tend to get tired quickly during the day. I feel the urge to take a nap to cope.
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Brothers, after the cojona lockdown I went on a holiday to turkey and I used this time to get some bloodworks done.
It seems I have low DHEA and High Total Testosterone, how is this possible? My DHT seems to be in range, does this mean that my testosterone gets converted to DHT again.
Anyone here that can help me interpret the results, they are very confusing to me.
Results 4 months post fin use:
what are your current symptoms? Not too strange to see that your hormones are back to normal, that’s what usually happens after a while; it’s issues deeper in your body, undetectable by normal tests, concerning the dysfunction of certain androgen receptors that are the issue.
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The thing is they are not back to normal, my testosterone is frickin high and my DHEA low.
How can I still experience low libido and weaker erections with high Test levels???
Current symptoms are:
- Fatigue
- Tinnitus
- Weaker erections
- Low libido
- Muscles not as full (pump) as pre-fin
- Still have slight testicle ache somedays
The issue with the condition is that receptors are fucked up, so that your hormones are unable to carry out what they want to do. 5-ar molecules themselves take three months at least to get towards where they should be, and may take a couple months longer, so you have to give things time, and come to terms with the possibility of permanent slight side effects. Lingering libido issues seem likely, but with healthy living and cialis/viagra, the mental and erection issues can usually be very well managed if you aren’t suffering obscenely (or so it seems to me from reading around the forum). I came off the drug two weeks before you, and only briefly had pre-fin erections for a few days about three weeks ago, so I wouldn’t worry too much if I were you right now.
My recovery has been slow and zig-zagged, so I’m still hopeful that over time things will continue to slowly zig-zag towards a permanent full recovery, even though right now I too have the issues with libido and erections that you do. So all I can say is stay healthy and give things another month or two and see where you are.
How bad are your erections/libido right now, and how much improved are they from the start, and what has been the timeline of that improvement, briefly?
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Hey, casual.
I think test levels are really overestimated. I think what’s more important is your sensitivity to androgens.
what do you mean with overestimated?
what about my DHEA levels that are low?
Even cortisol is on the low end of the range.
There are many people with high testosterone levels who are effeminate. Many professional athletes have test levels in the 400-range.
What’s important is how sensitive you are to androgens.
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I guess around 80% better than the beginning of this all.
I can get erect, but just like the muscles in the rest of my body, even touching my penis feels different than before.
I still have some muscles but when I workout the pump is far less. I can best describe it as muscles from an old person, they just seem more loose.
The bloodflow to the muscles isnt quite the same anymore, hence the same problem in my penile area.
Libido is very low still, I do still think about girls but I have to really force myself to get an erection.
What about yours?
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80% isn’t too bad. Another couple months could give another surprise recovery boost or two. And it’s hard to cross-reference what is 80% to different people. If your mind is 100% good, and you are able to get erections, and don’t have any testicular atrophy, I’d put you at 85% at the lowest.
For me, I’m about the same as you describe, except without the muscle problems, and with the addition of testicular atrophy and slight brain fog residuum. How long does it take you to actually get an erection? I’m pretty sure I often get them as quick as pre-fin – I look at porn for like thirty seconds and without thinking it I have an erection (though not as strong as pre-fin). If only I could bloody quit alcohol for a week I might see some better results, like I had earlier this month!
Take cold showers, get as much UV sunlight as possible, and eat/drink healthy. Give it a month at least.
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Just an update, been feeling a bit better mentally for the last 5 days. Fatigue seems gone and tinnitus is at a low level around 15%. Erection is still not good and still experience slight ball ache (especially when jerking off).
I havent changed anything in my lifestyle.
Was at a girls house last weekend she literally was all over me and I knew I couldnt perform so I stopped her from going further… 
quick weekly update.
been feeling better mentally and physically for about a week now. erections are stronger and fuller. i do seem to ejaculate earlier that pre-fin. dont know if this is common.
symptoms that seem to remain are low libido, 10%tinnitus in my left ear and less muscle fullness.
feel around 90% recovered. hope no new symptoms develop over time.
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another weekly update. 5 months out.
I havent crashed for some time now. Mentally and physically im in better shape and seem to make progress quick.
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Sounds like you’re recovering my man. Are you doing anything specific with regards to diet or a healthy lifestyle? Are you taking any supplements or herbs?
I’ve suddenly noticed some major improvements in the last two weeks.
Im not taking any supps at the moment.
I have slowly picked up my (previous) gym regimen after 3,5 months off fin. Before I just physically couldnt.
I do weightlifting 4x a week (no powerlifter, 80% - 90% of max for about 15 - 20 reps) and light cardio for half an hour as well (stairmasters).
I have been going to light therapy for 1 1/2 months for a condition that I had pre-fin. This is basically to get a boost of uv-b which leads some increase in vitamin d.
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