New PFS study publication

General Discussion
#38

Depressed guy- that unfortunately I don’t have an answer. However if research keeps moving along in this direction maybe we will. The all these maniacs on the site telling everyone there secret on how they got better will go away.

I will see this again, bc sometimes I think I’m the only logical person around here, the absolute ONLY common element in all the recoveries is time. Perhaps also a positive attitude and belief they will get better.

I am a little over 2 years off and slowly I am returning to normal as YOU will too. Do t listen to the people who say you won’t get better and improve. My memory is almost back 100 percent, I don’t stumble over words, zero brainfog, I am not nearly as bloated as I was, stomach flat now most of the time, pleasurable ejaculations petty much all the time, waking up horny pretty much each day. I look at girls again like a regular guy. I don’t have that same difficulty in concentration or you know how when you talk to someone you can’t focus and your eyes hurt a little? That’s pretty much gone.

And before those jump in and say “you weren’t as bad as me” well that’s nonsense. I was completely f’d 2 years ago.

#39

[quote=“Finatruth”]
Depressed guy- that unfortunately I don’t have an answer. However if research keeps moving along in this direction maybe we will. The all these maniacs on the site telling everyone there secret on how they got better will go away.

I will see this again, bc sometimes I think I’m the only logical person around here, the absolute ONLY common element in all the recoveries is time. Perhaps also a positive attitude and belief they will get better.

I am a little over 2 years off and slowly I am returning to normal as YOU will too. Do t listen to the people who say you won’t get better and improve. My memory is almost back 100 percent, I don’t stumble over words, zero brainfog, I am not nearly as bloated as I was, stomach flat now most of the time, pleasurable ejaculations petty much all the time, waking up horny pretty much each day. I look at girls again like a regular guy. I don’t have that same difficulty in concentration or you know how when you talk to someone you can’t focus and your eyes hurt a little? That’s pretty much gone.

Good to hear about all those improvements since this whole thing started for you two years ago.

Just curious about one thing.

What major symptoms are you still getting?
I noticed you said you now get pleasurable ejaculations. This tells me that besides the obvious that you can bust a nut and feel good doing so it’s also telling me you can obtain and keep an erection. With that said what sexual symptoms are you still experiencing?

Thanks for and further explanation you can give.

#40

I also believe that time is the most common element in are recoveries. However It’s difficult for a guy to tell if the time alone fixed him up if he recovered while and or after also taking suppletments or drugs.

#41

Also if this theory is correct why would taking prog fuck most guys up even more?
I only base this off of what I have see. About guys taking prog on this website. So I’m also curious to know more about what you know regarding guys trying to take prog to feel better

#42

I don’t know why Finatruth believes he has figured out PFS. Why does increased estrogen in the brain mean that the progesterone receptors have been destroyed? Elevated estrogen levels in the brain will have more activity on estrogen receptors and will result in the symptoms that we have. How and if progesterone activity is affected can not be concluded at this time. It may be that we have too much progesterone activity as well, not a lack thereof. Progesterone has been used for chemical castration (i.e. depo provera). Thats why it can make you feel worse. And thats why no one has been able to duplicate light at the ends recovery. The guy may have just recovered on his own.

#43

No your are screwing up cause and affect. Increased estrogen is not what destroyed the progesterone receptors, finasteride did. That leads to an imbalance at the receptor in favor of estrogen over progesteone. As far as the progesterone treatment it hits on something but we would be dead wrong thinking that simply rubbing some on us will help.

Read about the use of progesterone for traumatic brain injuries, they do it intranasally. In fact those same studies mention the use of finasteride to complete a Progesterone receptor knockout

#44

“As far as the progesterone treatment it hits on something but we would be dead wrong thinking that simply rubbing some on us will help.”

Wait, isn’t that exactly what you and the others on the progesterone thread did???

#45

How do you know though that our side effects are not due to lack of androgens in the brain? Or lack of other metabolites due to defective enzymes in the brain? How can you definitively make these statements?

#46

Degreene- of course I don’t know for sure, I said it’s my theory. 3 weeks ago that study from the dermatologists came out indicating that a striking number of patients came in with Melasma who were on finasteride which lead them to hypothesis an imbalance between progesteone and estrogen. I think it takes years and years to get better because of the damage done, but I do believe it slowly gets better

#47

There are people who have PFS for over 10 years. Time alone is not the cure.

#48

True. I am seven years off and still suffering. However, with time some things get better, some things you get used to and for some things you develop strategies of coping/compensating. So, there is no cure but a little hope.

#49

Is intranasal progesterone easily available ? if so should we try it ?

I’m willing to try anything at this stage.

#50

Finatruth, am I misunderstanding you or have you changed your opinion?

On this thread:

On the progesterone thread:

Finatruth, you’ve “rubbed some” progesterone on yourself, thought your crash was from stimulating your estrogen receptors, encouraged people to “keep stimulating” their estrogen receptors, mentioned continuing the progesterone protocol, and now have said, “we would be dead wrong thinking that simply rubbing some on us will help.”

Again, am I misunderstanding you or have you changed your opinion?

#51

No misunderstanding. It is true, last time I used (5 months ago for 5 days) I crashed big time, had all the severity of the original crash, dick was completely numb in the AM, face was bright red (friend asked if I was in the sun, meanwhile it was winter), horrible sleep etc so yes, it clearly hit on something. And yes after that I have been doing incredibly better, no numbness, am erections, connected to the world etc. so clearly it did affect me, I would theorize that it did affect the estrogen receptors as it’s known to do, and started a great upswing. Who really knows, but just becAuse it affected me, even positively, by no means does it mean it’s a cure or even treatment. That’s my view

#52

Finatruth: why don’t you just take more like the protocol you were following? 2 weeks on 4 days off. Maybe you get even better. I talked to Light At The End I guess two weeks ago and he said he is still cured not dropped vêem a little so in his case it cured him. But I also think maybe the cream help US with copper toxicity that’s why people get ups and downs.

Finatruth which side effects did you cure? Which one do you still need to adress? The sexual sides you cured?

#53

Immunohistochemical Evaluation of Androgen Receptor and Nerve Structure Density in Human Prepuce from Patients with Persistent Sexual Side Effects after Finasteride Use for Androgenetic Alopecia.

Di Loreto C1, La Marra F1, Mazzon G2, Belgrano E2, Trombetta C2, Cauci S1.

Abstract
Finasteride is an inhibitor of 5-α-reductase used against male androgenetic alopecia (AGA). Reported side effects of finasteride comprise sexual dysfunction including erectile dysfunction, male infertility, and loss of libido. Recently these effects were described as persistent in some subjects. Molecular events inducing persistent adverse sexual symptoms are unexplored. This study was designed as a retrospective case-control study to assess if androgen receptor (AR) and nerve density in foreskin prepuce specimens were associated with persistent sexual side effects including loss of sensitivity in the genital area due to former finasteride use against AGA. Cases were 8 males (aged 29-43 years) reporting sexual side effects including loss of penis sensitivity over 6 months after discontinuation of finasteride who were interviewed and clinically visited. After informed consent they were invited to undergo a small excision of skin from prepuce. Controls were 11 otherwise healthy matched men (aged 23-49 years) who undergone circumcision for phimosis, and who never took finasteride or analogues. Differences in AR expression and nerve density in different portions of dermal prepuce were evaluated in the 2 groups. Density of nuclear AR in stromal and epithelial cells was higher in cases (mean 40.0%, and 80.6% of positive cells, respectively) than controls (mean 23.4%, and 65.0% of positive cells, respectively), P = 0.023 and P = 0.043, respectively. Conversely, percentage of vessel smooth muscle cells positive for AR and density of nerves were similar in the 2 groups. The ratio of AR positive stromal cells % to serum testosterone concentrations was 2-fold higher in cases than in controls (P = 0.001). Our findings revealed that modulation of local AR levels might be implicated in long-term side effects of finasteride use. This provides the first evidence of a molecular objective difference between patients with long-term adverse sexual effects after finasteride use versus drug untreated healthy controls in certain tissues.

#54

I thought this numbness was due to lack of hormone or dht. Now, it demoralize me…

#55

Ok at least we see some progress in studies…
I have no idea how to use this info though…
Does it mean AR is overexpressed in pfs in the penile tissue?

#56

Why is overexpressed AR causing numbness?

#57

Depressedguy- you WILL get sensitivity in your penis back!!! Trust me, I had 2 years it was horrible, now it’s almost back all the time completely. Get your head in the right place

I can’t see another study of sexual dysfunction. Have they not seen patients with thin skin, collageen loss, tremors, etc