New member here - my story after using 5ar inhibitor herbs...

Member Stories
#1
  1. Where are you from (country)?

UK

  1. How did you find this forum (Google search – if so, what search terms? Via link from a forum or website – if so, what page? Other?)

Google

  1. What is your current age, height, weight?

35, 5ft 11, 86 kilos

  1. Do you excercise regularly? If so, what type of excercise?

none anymotre, was big into lifting weights

  1. What type of diet do you eat (vegetarian, meat eater, raw, fast-food/organic healthy)?

seefood diet

i see food i eat, eat everything

  1. Why did you take Finasteride (hair loss, BPH, other)?
    I suffered depression.
    I took ganoderma or reishi along with jei wei xiao yao wan a tcm formula contaning black cohosh and dong quai and vitex
    Gandoderma has been shown to be a 5ar inhibitor like fina and is now being studies as a bph reducer. The black cohosh is a antiandrogen.

  2. For how long did you take Finasteride (weeks/months/years)?

Last time i took reishi was for 4 weeks before i realised i was screwed up properly, whilst on i lost libiso and felt it would come back and was not bothered.

  1. How old were you, and WHEN (date) did you start Finasteride?

I was 29 sometime june 2006

  1. How old were you when you quit, and WHEN (date) did you quit?

july 2006

  1. How did you quit (cold turkey or taper off)?

as per instructions

  1. What type of Finasteride did you use – Propecia, Proscar, Fincar or other generic?

i never used fina, just another 5ar inhibitor herb called reishi and TCM formula contaning black cohosh, dong quai all anti androgen i later found.

  1. What dose did you take (eg. 1 mg/day, 1 mg every other day etc.)?

recommended dose.

  1. How long into your use of Finasteride did you notice the onset of side effects?
    first week
  2. What side effects did you experience while on the drug that have yet to resolve since discontinuation?
    no libido, poor erections.
    Put an X beside all that apply:

Sexual
[x] Loss of Libido / Sex Drive
[x] Erectile Dysfunction
[x] Complete Impotence
[x] Loss of Morning Erections
[x] Loss of Spontaneous Erections
[ ] Loss of Nocturnal Erections
[ ] Watery Ejaculate
[ ] Reduced Ejaculate
[ ] Inability to Ejaculate / Orgasm
[ ] Reduced Sperm Count / Motility

Mental
[x] Emotional Blunting / Emotionally Flat
[x] Difficulty Focusing / Concentrating
[x] Confusion
[x] Memory Loss / Forgetfullness
[x] Stumbling over Words / Losing Train of Thought
[ ] Slurring of Speech
[ ] Lack of Motivation / Feeling Passive / Complacency
[x] Extreme Anxiety / Panic Attacks
[x] Depression / Melancholy

Physical
[ ] Penile Tissue Changes (narrowing, shrinkage, wrinkled)
[ ] Penis curvature / rotation on axis
[ ] Testicular Pain
[x] Testicular Shrinkage / Loss of Fullness
[ ] Genital numbness / sensitivity decrease
[ ] Weight Gain
[ ] Gynecomastia (male breasts)
[ ] Muscle Wastage
[x] Muscle Weakness
[ ] Joint Pain
[ ] Dry / Dark Circles under eyes

Misc
[ ] Prostate pain
[ ] Persistent Fatigue / Exhaustion
[ ] Stomach Pains / Digestion Problems
[x] Constipation / “Poo Pellets”
[ ] Vision - Acuity Decrease / Blurriness
[ ] Increased hair loss
[ ] Frequent urination
[ ] Lowered body temperature

[ ] Other (please explain)

  1. What (if any) treatments have you undertaken to recover from your side effects since discontinuation of the drug?

herbal stuff like tribulus and other concoctions

  1. If you have pre or post-Finasteride bloodtests, what hormonal changes have you encountered since discontinuing the drug (pls post your test results in the “Blood Tests” section and link to them in your post)?

no blood tests previous

but current tests indicate normal for all but estradiol slightly high.

  1. Anything not listed in the above questions you’d like to share about your experience with Finasteride?

  2. Tell us your story, in your own words, about your Finasteride usage and side effects experienced while on/off the drug.

I lost all libido and complete impotence, i felt neutered. This feeling started when i started to take the herbs. when i wnt off it contniued. like a light switch been turned off.
Well its been 5 years and i have gained erections through herbal therpahy but no libido still. It gets better after eating loads of broccoli or taking dim but no real changes in libido over 5 years.
Coriander seeds taken twice a day improve my libido after a few days of usage but then in a week the libido goes.

I have been everywhere trying to find out what happened but no help, my research bring me here and i feel i have damaged myself through use of 5ar inhibitor like you guys.

#2

I have been in the past able to ejaculate up to 5 times a row without losing erection in between, could have done more but never felt the need to go on. Talk about stamina and virility, i was way above average. That’s a contnious 5 ejaculations with no refractory period at nearly 30 years old. I could sex all night if i wanted to do. I never really had a refractory period. I could also stay hard for hours with just mental imagery or when i was near a woman i liked. No problems ever getting it up. I was up within 5 seconds of meeting a girl i liked and even a fat girl afain a few seconds and boom, just from sexual mental imagery. I had sex with ugly women too and never had probelm getting off, just focused on something about them that i found sexual and bam under 10 seconds i am fully hard just from thoughts alone. I must have been a porn directos wet dream. I could sex for hours too once i learnt to control and pace myself. I used to think i was normal even though some girls acted surprised i did not figure it out, just thought they were flattering me but i later after screwing this older married woman who was a bit of a slutwife, she told me lots and i realised i was not normal and i used to enjoy surprising my conquests with my virility. I went from this super sexual state, to complete impotence and zero libido. I considered suicide, lost self esteem, and it has destroyed me.

I want to get back to what i was or even get some it back. I was destroyed by herbs that inhibit 5ar.

#3

Are you musulman?

#4

yes

#5

5ar inhibitor ganoderma

Its meant to be strong.

Ganoderma lucidum and prostate tissue
Randomized clinical trial of an ethanol extract of Reishi Ganoderma lucidum in men with lower urinary tract symptoms.
Asian J Androl. 2008 Sep; Noguchi M, Kakuma T, Tomiyasu K, Yamada A, Itoh K, Konishi F, Kumamoto S, Shimizu K, Kondo R, Matsuoka K. Department of Urology, Kurume University School of Medicine, 67 Asahi-machi, Kurume 830-0011, Japan.
To evaluate the safety and efficacy of an extract of ganoderma lucidum that shows the strongest 5alpha-reductase inhibitory activity among the extracts of 19 edible and medicinal mushrooms by a double-blind, placebo-controlled, randomized and dose-ranging study in men with lower urinary tract symptoms (LUTS). We randomly assigned 88 men over the age of 49 years who had slight-to-moderate LUTS to 3 month of treatment with ganoderma lucidum extract (6 mg once a day) or placebo. The primary outcome measures were changes in the International Prostate Symptom Score (IPSS) and variables of uroflowmetry. Reishi extract was effective and significantly superior to placebo for improving total IPSS. No changes were observed with respect to quality of life scores, peak urinary flow, mean urinary flow, residual urine, prostate volume, serum prostate-specific antigen or testosterone levels. The extract of ganoderma lucidum was well tolerated and improved IPSS scores.

#6

Musulman? what do you mean?

#7

I thought you recovered after using auyovadic meds. you were using some herbs to treat yourself.
5AR inhibitors are killer for men’s virelity.
There is no treatment, if there was one,no body would be here. I strongly think it destroys some brain cells or tissues or neurons what ever you think the damage is in the brain. In my opinion only some revolution like stem cell can improve us. After spending 15 months on differen websites, I could not find a single case of recovery. there are some recoveries but I think theses were natural ones.

sp

#8

That is not me. You confuse me with someone else.

#9

I find i can get somewhat normal for a while maybe a week or so, when i take corainder twice a day. Within 4 days i feel my old self, this lasts up til max about 10 days. Then it goes away. Again after a break of a few days i start corainder again and i am back to normal for a few days - morning wood, spontaneous erections, libido, etc etc just like before, its as if this herb undoes th damage. This way i am able to maintain relations with my wife, but i am not my normal self. Before i would have a lot of affairs, now i cannot, i can only take corainder seeds and then satisfy wife then take break for a week and then ready again. Maybe my wife feed me something so i can only do it with her, these women can do such things, one of my ex girlfriends tried to cut my dick when i was sleeping because i have sex with her friend, im serious, maybe those herbs did the damage, I dont know, i am now barely good enough for one woman with the crutch of this coriander. I thank god this corainder seeds with sugar one teaspoon twice a day is allowing me to function and keep marriage going. But what if it stops working? this worries me.

#10

Got problems for time, like 4 years and back then i became completely impotent, no sex drive etc etc, i filled in the details in the new mebers section how i was when i first got afflicted after taking 5 ar inhibitor herbs like ganoderma, black cohosh, donq quai, saw palmetto etc. I also abused steroids when younger and funnily enough they never affected me sexually.

I did reach about 90 - 95 % recovery over the 4 years with ayuverdic remedies that was from acomplete impotence, but i then stalled never really getting over that last hump, which is libido - the fire to ravage a woman and now feel i am gaining that 5%. This past week i have awoke with strong morning wood that wont dissapate. I would spring boneers looking at woman and i have become my old pervert self. It was like it used to be in the good old days. I have felt horny when waking and i feel good. I feel if i ejaculate i am even hornier, its like something clicks back to place, balls get bigger for a few days afterwards. If i hold off from ejaculating i get less horny after a week. Coriander seeds did help me but now i seem to be doing good without. I have been taking ayuverdic cocktails now for about 6 months however i am worried about lead posioning and want to stop them as i heard these cocnotions can contain dangerous levels of heavy metals, i was sleep deprived this past week and found it diffuclt to speak and panicked that i had lead posioning, maybe i have and will get a test done, anyone know any places in England?.

Regardless, the herbal remdies has done what it claimed it was goiung to do, the herbalist is a professional and very good.

Four years and 2 months now and i feel a lot better.

I now know that 100% is very close and i feel good.

Time to hunt some women and ravage some vaginas.

#11

can you post some studies that show these other herbs, besides saw palmetto, are even 5arII inhibitors? I find it odd that within the last month you, for some reason, found a finasteride forum and posted a long story (which i initially disapproved because it is not about finasteride - i don’t know what moderator approved it) and then within a month posted a recovery story about some randomly unspecified ayuverdic remedies. It kind of seems - to be honest - trollesque of not blatently troll behavior.

but if you post some legitimate studies perhaps I won’t be inclined to think that.

#12

This guy’s full of shit, good riddance.

#13

Ganoderma works same as proscar - its being trialed as a 5 ar inhibitor for enlarged prostates - prostate problems. Just do a search by putting ganoderma and 5 ar inhibitor in to search engine. also add anti androgen and then you will see it is an anti androgen too - it is scary stuff for a man.

Look here:

[b]

[/b]

This week something clicked after being stalled for a couple of months.

I been around everywhere on the net trying to find solution and only realised that i may have what you have when i found ganoderma and saw palmetto are 5 ar inhibitors and anti androgens.

Black cohosh liquorice and dong quai may not be but they are estrogenic and not good for men.

I did not take anything myself, i went to a professional, he gave me some concotion called majun shababwar khas along with 4 different types of tablets to take at certain times in the day. Within a month i felt a difference of sorts, 2 months i felt even better and then i kept improving steady, then he gave me brain / nervous system herbals as well as liver detox herbals and i jumoped a notch in improvement and then stalled for a while not quite hitting %100. Only this week did i get the next incremental improvement and felt %100.

It contains a mixture of herbs in a honey base - Crocus is one of them, white asparagus? The tablest i dont know what they contain, he wont tell his formula cos its 7 generations old and works. When i was seeing him last week i heard people ringing up from sweden, from dubai, from all over the world for this medicine. Its popular and works. It increases testosterone levels and sexual functioning, mine went from 440 - 600 ng dl after a month or two and recently i measured it at 700+ ng dl.

This is them. Mention reference 2536 (which is me) and my chinese herbs use (saw palmetto ganoderma etc) which caused my issues and he will tell you he is treating me.

herbalrights.net

look in their medicines section for majun shababwar khas cos thats one of them i am using. i strongly beleive in the power of herbals now.

Luckfax, grow up, you start pm me and provoke me and start flaming me now this. Leave it, ignore my threads if you have not got nice things to say.

#14

There are studies corroborating it has weak Anti-androgenic and 5AR inhibiting properties.

lib.bioinfo.pl/pmid:16962782

Unfortunately, this seems a bit suspect. Why would you have a “referral number”? Are you being paid to post here? Which of these fellows are you seeing? herbalrights.net/ContactUs_2.html

The site seems a bit spammy, in my opinion – poor language and grammar etc. Here are the ingredients of “Majun shababawar khas” as noted on their products page:

  • Crocus sativus linn
  • Chorophytum
  • Asarum Europaeum
  • Pistacia lentisus
  • Orchis latifolia linn

Who knows if these are safe or if one might suffer an allergic reaction… anyway, your story could be legit or it could not be, or it could be to drive traffic to this website so people will spend money there. I’m not trying to judge, I don’t really know, and don’t really care.

If people want to try the product, fine. If it helps them, great. If not, it will have been a waste of money. However, they must also consider the source… many herbal products are unfortunately, as you said, sometimes contaminated with high amounts of lead.

While your usage of Ganoderma may have caused you some issues, the effects of Finasteride are far more potent in terms of 5AR/DHT ablation (firecracker vs. nuclear bomb). Just something to keep in mind when comparing your unique situation to the rest of ours.

EDIT: One thing I have to question is the timeline here:

In your above threads, Sept 26-27, you state you are “musulman” when asked by Luckfax. Then YOU ask “Musulman? what do you mean?”.

Then spstriken states: “I thought you recovered after using auyovadic meds. you were using some herbs to treat yourself.”, to whcih you reply “That is not me. You confuse me with someone else.”

YET, as of Oct 9, you posted a story that you have in fact recovered using ayuverdic herbs, as noted above. This doesn’t add up. How can you have recovered in the past and have posted as such way back in September or before on other forums, then come here and post the same story a few weeks later, this time with links to a spammy looking website and the exact product being sold?

Not to mention, your IP indicates you are based in the UK, and the herbalrights website contact info is based in the UK, and you have a “Referral #” that anyone could call up with to ask if you are being treated by someone there (perhaps its you answering the phone?).

Can you address the above concerns please?

#15

I am muscleman here but was musulman on crislers where i got banned albiet through an innocent mistake, i quickly realised that luckfax wants to get me banned thats why he asked me cos i read his post under another thread where he calles me a ‘vile human being’ which made me feel angry at him and i wanted to protect myself. So in order to disassociate myself from my past and save myself from being banned, which i felt luckfax would try to do by asking the administrators to ban me (he seems to be that kinda guy you know, very bitter at anyone better than him, just ask joe-uk) so i denied it. Thats the truth.

I have been taking these herbs for a while now and i did achieve 90 - 95% recovery and could not gain the last 10%. I feel now i have cos now the morning wood is regular and the libido is good ive had it come in phases in the past, sometimes 100% sometimes 80% but now its regularly near 100%… My reference is my client number 2536 and you can question the doctor yourself and he will tell you how screwed up i was before i started going to him through saw palmetto, ganoderma jei wei xiao yao wan and how he has manged to bring me back to functionality. Thats for your staisfaction, it is a registered company in the UK it is not a fraud, he even appears on TV hakim Shafaqat ali shah, i think it might by Hadhayat tv (ill find the sky channel if you want), he appears on a show about health and wellness and use of ayuverdic unani tiibb remediies to cure modern ills. You are then able to ring in and speak to him live on air if you want, you can see the guy you speak to and mention my reference number and he will back it all up.

What more could i say, this is the truth my man.

He has a lot of customers, just watch his tv show, he has people ringing in from all over the world. When i went to see him last week in my presence he answered calls from sweden, dubai, saudi arabia etc. He introduced unani tibb to UK and comes from a renowned family of hakims, his formulations are 100s of years old he uses, unani tbb has a long past history. Its all about formulations and proportions of herbs.

Too doubt is normal and natural. But you cant get better if you dont trust.

#16

Thanks for the clarification.

Please explain why you were banned from Crisler’s forum?

I have found material corroborating that this individual has been broadcast on TV in the UK – however, the network had serious issues with the advertising and promotion of his services that took place during his program. He was in fact in breach of compliance and regulations. I did some Googling and found the below.

Anyway, as mentioned before: if his stuff worked for you, great – but keep in mind you did not take Finasteride. Everyone is now aware of the link to this website selling these products, and can read the info below, so they can make their own judgements. Since you have recovered from non-Finasteride use, I wish you well and you probably have no further need for this website.

sunriseradio.fm/news1.php?news_id=3083

stakeholders.ofcom.org.uk/enforc … ns/obb121/

#17

[b]
Quote:
I am muscleman here but was musulman on crislers where i got banned albiet through an innocent mistake,

Please explain why you were banned from Crisler’s forum? [/b]

I am very opinionated hence i get banned on many forums.

But on crislers i was apparently banned cos of racism but i did not mean it, it was not intended and neither, i am coloured myself but apparently i had made racist comments against black people! On computer it cannot be seen as it would in person as the ethnicity of the perosn making the post is not known therefore a comment can be seen as racist, i did not think it was racist and inadvertently used it. I was referring to the fact that you dont even need hair to attract women, its a fallacy that is stuck in the eurpean view of mans beauty and thus there was never any ned to take finaestredine. I gave the example of black men, many of whom would be shaved bald, yet black men tend to get the prettiest women despite them not being handsome in the european context / world view - euorpean ideal of handosme is full head of hair, sharp nose, defined features etc etc etc. The reason for this is that in my expereinces black men in general are not as insecure, have more confidence and dont give too much of a damn about their looks, they also tend to be more masculine, these are the qualities that attract women not hair or pretty boy looks. I was saying that instead of taking Fina, the balding people should work on their root issues - confidence, security and masculinity. Paranaoia, vanity and insecurity are what turn women off. Obviously some people like luckfax did not like this comment of mine cos it reflects on him! It shows his issues and his persona. Luckfax calls me a vile human being but i have my opinions and i aint afraid to be open about them, who knos what twisted opinions lay in his mind? Who is someobody to judge me like that?

I hope that explains it.

I have been banned at the meso board as well because my opinion did not go down well with the american moderators! This time it was cos i said men in europe and America tend not be as masculine as third world males, soft living in america meant american children are raised soft and weak and said that american men are subservient to their women and therefore american men are soft and weak whivch means the pool on which america chooses its soldeirs from is weak and soft leading to weak and soft soldiers when compared to Ghurkas and other third world solders who are a lot tougher - hence in vietnam skinny vietnamese kicked americas ass, cos the americans were not tough, so a few things like that obviously irritated an Amercan moderator so i was banned and no reason was given. I also spoke of male to male sex and how that can not necessarily be seen as gay because if you lets say in a prison setting ‘rape’ or have sex with another man and do not really enjoy it more than you would with a woman but rape for the sole reason to a) release sexual tension which you would really prefer to release with a woman b) to show power over another man by ‘raping’ him and have the intention to make him subservient to you. I also went on to say that being on top is not necessarily seen as gay becuase of these reasons, infact it can be a status thing and seen as a positive thing becuase it means you are dominant, masculine, strong, however recieving is universally seen as gay, weak, effeminate, subservient, submissive. This was tolerated but the american comment was way too much, which seeing it is an american board makes sense. subjetcivity instead of objectivity - what a wonderful way to moderate.

Hakim shafaqat ali shah goes on TV to promote his services, that is no brainer. it is not allowed, but all his competitors are doing it but the sole reason he does his shows on healthy and wellness are to get more and more customers. He targets the world audience like this hence he now has custom internationally whereas before he was just renowned in the main in UK and Pakistan. I can understand this - i can also understand ofcoms position, as with everything, follow the law but if you can getaway with skipping a red light and you need to be somewhere by a certain time, do it, so its a case of promote as much as you can get away with - i would do the same. Sometimes you go over the line and get pulled up on it, which is what has happened. However one thing people should monitor is heavy metal posioning, be very careful. I have checked out how he prepares his herbal remedies and he has safety conytol e.g distilling water before adding to remedies etc etc but he sources his herbs from India and Pakistan so you do not know if they contain heavy metals or are grown in toxic areas. That is the only concern with herbals.

This is very important: DO NOT SELF TREAT< GO TO A QUALIFIED HERBALIST. IF YOU SELF TREAT YOU WILL COCK YOURSELF UP MORE. I DID IT AND BECAME WORSE.

Thats it, i speak the truth i dont care what people think of me or what i say, fuck you if you dont like me, but i believe many here can be healed if they investigate alternative herbal remdies such as ayuveridc unani tibb. This is a medicine system that has promoted sp[erm production in spermless men who have not had children for 20 years! It has worked wonders in many areas and is way ahead of conventional medicine in a lot of areas in my opinion. Adrenal fatigue, etc etc is well understood by unani tibb. But seek out a true professional, ask to see his credentials, ask if they have a family history of practise, as the best ones are the ones that have been doing it for generations. Hakim shafat ali shah is the real dela, he introduced unani tibbto uk and has been doing it for all hism life and it has been a seven generations thing. He ios expensive but he charges his worth and his medicnes are better quality and better prepared than many. I say this not to promote but cos its the truth. too many go to sham hakims and dont get benefit. Too many medicines claim to conatin certain ingredients but do not or contain inferior ingredients. There is a lot of fraud going on.

oh yes, another morning of big strong wood. Things are looking good and i hope this is permanent change. This should be in the recoveries section as i took 5 ar inhibitors ganoderma and saw palmetto. There are people here like ‘spstricken’ who have had the same issues as me after taking 5 ar inhibitors. So i dont think why this was moved? alsoyou cant say fina is like an atom bomb compared to ganoderma or saw palmetto. There cant be a comparison as everyone is unique and responds dfferently. Furthermore fina is from a natural herb too - so saw palmetto and ganoderma being the same type of herb would affect in a similliar way and it does, many on boards have issues after taking saw palmetto etc. So saying ‘you never took fina’ is being closed minded as you need to know how, why these things affect men and the more studies, the more evidence the more examples, the more case studies and historys the better. Also, if a herb has 5 ar inhibitor properties and is an antiandrogen do you not think that nature wouls have produced there antidotes and the opposites. God has created a cure for every illness on the planet - you need to find it. This requires and open mind. Its natural to distrust and not be taken advantage off but do not let it make you closed minded and give up hope. Think outsude the box - research avicenna the unani tibb master, research the history. No doubt you will find miracles especially in sexual medicine. It is renowned for it. Tongkat ali, tribulus ashwagandha, fengreek, mucuna pruiriens all these come from ayuverda and unani tibb and are sold by supplement companies who source inferior quality herbs and are usually haphazardly mixed and become dangerous - these bodybuilding test boosters are dangerous as they have not been put together by a professional hakim but by supplemt companies who want to make money and just throw everything in sourcing cheap por quality herbs. You need to get the real quality herbs and get them prescribed for your constitution by a professional for them to benefit you. Adrenal fatigue, insufficient thyroid, insufficient testoisterone all these are addressed by unani tibb. many hormone imbalances are cured very easily. Yet conventional medicine would seek to replace your hormones.

#18

I called Hakim shafaqat ali shah and he was charging $600 canadian Dollors for one month supply. I think that is too much. . Needless to say I dorpped the idea.

sps

#19

muscleman

you never mentioned in your previous posts in any forum that you took Saw Palmetto. I have checked all of your posts. if you mentioned please let us know. It looks like you picked up the idea of SP use over here and wrote about SP.
you never took propecia, and I highly doubt if you have taken Saw Palmetto.Honestly I think you are not suffering from any sexual sides. it looks like you are trying to convince people to buy herbal stuff from the site you are working for.
Do you have any blood tests pre and post herbal treatments? please post them.

thanx

sps

#20

I have used saw palmetto, just never associated problems to it, my recent problems started when i took jei wei xiao yao wan, ganoderma and other stuff.

I have had problems before i remember i took saw palmetto a while back and it was an added ingredient in a weightgainer shake to make the shale more popular (also contains saw palmetto, etc etc), i took the shake which i now know contained soya protien for a couple fo months and i became impotent. I never linked the impotence up to the weight gainer shakes and i did not know why for all these years. I was told by the doctor i was depressed which i beleived at the time. I stopped the weight gainer for other reasons then a little while later i am okay. I never worked out why i became impotent that time, now, years later i have worked out what happened.

My second impotence was after injesting chinese herbs and ganoderma. This was immediate loss of libido and within a week or two i was impotent. One of the herbal concotions i was taking contained saw palmetto too.

Believe what you will, its there for you, medicine the maharajah used to satisfy concubines was taken from such hakims. These guys are whizz at solving sexual issues. But if you tooo paranoid then you wont trust. Its your call.

Whenever you get real good stuff it will be expensive, if someone claims they can sell you ‘musk’ for cheap they have fake ‘musk’ cos musk comes from the bellybutton of a deer and it is very expensive, likewise most these herbs are expensive to obtain. The real stuff and real expertise has a price, you want a real good doctor treating you, you got to pay. If you had something say a concoction that was genuine expensive ingredients and worked for many generations track record, plus you were a shit hot doctor, do you not think your service and product would be worth something? Go on the net and you can buy these herbal products for 29.99, but its all fake scams. You should not self medicate anyway, but come on, use common sense, real ingredients and quality ingredients are not going to be cheap. neither is the service of an expert. How much does dr crisler charge again? you get my point?

You may not be happy to know that one month wont cut it, you will prolly have to take it for around 3 - 6 months, mostlikely 6 months and more possibly. This is because it rebuilds the endocrine system, gets your body rejuvinated, produces sperm in abundance, sperm takes 3 months and medicne develops your sexual power/ increases male hormone levels and corrects underlying issues. All of this takes time. Your body needs time to be coaxed back to efficiency. This is not a short booster like most stimulant medicnes such as tongkat ali, horny goat weed etc, which can be harmful in men that are already exhausted depleted sexually, its a regulating / rejuvinating medicines which coaxes your body to start working back to tip top efficiency. Old impotent men have restarted having sex after years as this stuff strengthens your sexual system. It boosts testosterone levels, i have blood tests.

It is a lot of money but i know it works as it worked for me and i have witnessed people ringing him up from all over for his sex medicines.

If i was working for him why would i ignore your emails and PMs for all that time, you sent me so many messages but i was too busy to respond cos i have nothing to gain from it, i only responded when you hijacked a thread i was on and asked me about the herbs directly. Remeber that? Why would i not respond to you for all that time. Cos i am not working for him, i am genuinely telling you that this worked for me and it could you too.

Too many peoplpe here are paranoid which is understandbale, they say once burnt twice shy, but being paranoid or suspicous and not wnating to try something or think out of the box is a block to getting well.