My theory

General Discussion
#1

I have been feeling much better lately. This week included my first 100% erection in 3 years and my first full spontaneous erection also. In my last post I hypothesized that killing parasites was the key and I believe it has helped so much. I’m not all the way yet but firmly believe I am on the right track.

Once again I’m thankful for my progress and not all of it makes sense, but keep in mind these things:

PRINCIPLES: When taking any kind of supplement, only take it 5 days a week thus your body won’t ever fully “adjust” to it so thus it will be 100% powerful when you take it. I go 3 days on 1 day off 2 days on 1 day off for the course of my week. This way every 2-3 days I have a supplement free day for my body to refresh. Believe me some of these off days are when I feel the best.

DIET: We need vitamins and antioxidants and protein that can rebuild our cells. THIS MEANS THAT YOU NEED TO EAT 90% FRUITS, VEGETABLES, and LEAN MEAT. Eat 5-8 small meals a day to keep your metabolism spiked. Keep your calories to a minimum as your body is having enough trouble digesting the food in its infected state. The longer you have food sitting in your infected body, the more toxic it becomes. So eat healthy, keep your metabolism high, and restore your GI track.

  1. KILL PARASITES
    Propecia is meant to act like a parasite on 5ar enzyme and even once we stop taking it our body still has many parasites built up.
    Course of action: I’ve been taking “chewing” cloves 3 times a day to kill parasite eggs (like you find in grocery store). To kill parasites, I alternate between two weeks of black walnut/wormwood and two weeks of oregano oil/uva ursi.

  2. COPPER TO ZINC RATIO
    If our body has many parasites it likely also has copper toxicity which means our body has excess “junk” which it cannot digest and is toxic to our body. We need to remove this problem.
    Course of action: Probiotic (NOW 8 billion) before each meal and Super Enzyme (made by NOW) after. This way we rebuild our GI track and digest our food right away, leaving no food in the GI track that our infected body can’t digest. Also recommend a zinc supplement.

  3. INFLAMMATION
    When our body is infected, it can become inflamed. This can lead to erectile dysfunction when the veins and arteries in the penis, scrotum, and prostate become inflamed.
    Course of Action: Killing parasites helps, as does NSAIDS (Ibuprofen, Tylenol, etc.)

  4. TESTOSTERONE TO ESTROGEN RATIO
    This is pretty obvious to everyone. However, only after we kill parasites can our body return to homeostasis and restore hormone levels.
    Course of action: Take Diesel Test Hardcore (I take 2 pills 3 x a day) AS WELL AS an ANTI-ESTROGEN. I take Erase (1 AM, 1 PM) for 3 weeks and then take a week of and take Triazole (1 AM, 1 PM) for 3 weeks and then take a week off and repeat. Lately I ran out of Diesel Test Hardcore and have substituted it with left over Sustain Alpha Liqui Vade, and seem to be doing ok but don’t have as much energy.

  5. LH
    Our LH is what gives us our surge and our libido. This raises both our testosterone and our estrogen levels but by taking the above mentioned estrogen blocker we are good to go.
    Course of Action: Take D-Aspartic Acid in the morning. Only take for 1 week on 1 week off or 2 weeks on 2 weeks off otherwise it seems to lose effect.

  6. DOPAMINE TO PROLACTIN RATIO
    Prolactin is the hormone released after we ejaculate that makes us not be able to have sex (refractory period) for a while. When we live in a constant state of high prolactin, gynecomastia is more likely to develop, we are more moody, and we live in “constant refractory period” which kills our libido and we don’t feel good. Dopamine is so important because it helps us feel good, enjoy life, and keeps everything else (including hormone levels) in balance.
    Course of Action: NOW Dopa Mucuna and Vitamin B6

  7. CORTISOL CONTROL
    Propecia stresses us out. Cortisol is the stress hormone. When our cortisol is high, our estrogen and prolactin are more likely to go up and our dopamine and testosterone go down.
    Course of action: Diesel Test Hardcore helps here, and if you have followed my other suggestions, you are likely improving your cortisol as well.

  8. TESTOSTERONE TO DHT CONVERSION
    Notice how I saved this for last. It is the least of my concerns but because DHT is the hormone we fucked with the most, it depends on many other things and we cannot manipulate it without first healing our body. Once we kill the parasites that kill the DHT, the DHT will slowly come back.
    Course of Action: Do everything above. Also, it has been suggested that creatine monohydrate improves testosterone conversion to DHT. I recommend no more than 3 weeks on with at least one week off.

#2

There is no evidence to support such claims. Propecia use leads to parasite eggs? This is bordering on delusion.

Again, conjecture based on opinion, not backed by any scientific evidence whatsoever that connects Finasteride use to any such things. Please have a read of Dr. Irwig’s and Dr. Traish’s recent papers on PFS to understand what the drug does and where the most likely areas for investigation lie.

This problem is primarily one of the after effects of androgen & neurosteroid deprivation via the androgen receptor, and other receptors. This area of investigation has been hypothesized by Dr. Alan Jacobs, Dr. Crisler, and Dr. Irwig, and Dr. Traish to name a few. There is no “infection” involved in any of this.

“Parasites” and other such dubious claims are typically peddled by quack doctors/alternative health practitioners, who use bogus diagnosis tests to get you to spend money on unnecessary treatments. Propecia use does not lead to “parasites”.

Conversely, Finasteride has been documented to alter the androgen/estrogen ratio in men (hence warnings for gynecomastia & breast cancer) and as such, anti-estrogens may be of use for those with elevated Estradiol levels.

There is no such thing, and this concept that “parasites” are “killing DHT” is laughable at best.

Finasteride is an irreversible 5ARII inhibitor, and unless the body makes more 5AR2 enzyme, it is likely DHT and other 5AR-derived metabolite production will be impaired.

See here: viewtopic.php?p=10169#p10169

#3

Hey Coldturkey,

I like how you have addressed the issues we are facing, yes doing these things may help with recovery. But i’m going to have to agree with Mew on this one.

#4

The only science that I can 100% use to back up my theory is that I have been the lab rat. And trust me, there hasn’t been a book written titled “HOW TO CURE YOURSELF FROM POST-FINASTERIDE SYNDROME.”

However, many of our symptoms are similar to people infected with parasites (candida, etc), people with copper toxicity, and bodybuilders whose HPTA has shut down. Therefore, by thinking outside of the box and taking ACTION, I have progressed. I find the less time I spend on here the better.

We have to choices: we can see ourself as a victim who suffers from the mysterious frightening ghost of propecia OR we can see ourselves as warriors who must come up with a solution.

Although I am not 100% recovered (quite yet), I can say that the only proven cure to propecia syndrome is RESOLVE.

#5

When anyone even mentions this it finishing their ideas imo. Simply because candida specifically the systemic candida which is what some users on here think we have, has apparently a host of numerous symptoms with little to no consistency among them. Also the few cases of systemic candida that ARE medically recognized are usually life threatening. Although as much a PFS sucks it isn’t acutely life threatening in and of itself. Also the fact that is been supported by the internets alternative medicine gurus makes it even more questionable.

#6

theres no hiding anymore…JUST FOR A SECOND…I will pretend like this isnt the problem…(fungus and parasites)…its seems like even if they are not the problem…when you fix them… the body fixes itself. theres no ARGUMENT…against a fact.

1 Like
#7

Coldturkey – can you provide a timeline for when you incorporated each of these things and what the reaction to each phase was?

It’s hard to isolate what might be at work.

Much appreciated.

#8

Ok let’s say it is fungus. I can easily go pickup some powerful antifungals and take them for a few weeks and this should hypothetically cure me?

#9

no because your immune system is FUCKED UP…like seriously fucked up…you need diet supplements…probiotics…antifungals…herbs…to cure yourself…and it takes time…you took nine months to be born…the human body isnt a microsoft system that you can just restart it at any given time

1 Like
#10

to an extent i believe this, i took sodium bicarbonate for a week which is an alkalizer/anti-fungal. Alot of my symptoms went away rash skin, gingervitas, muscle twitches.

So what your theory is saying intitally it was DHT deprivation then immune system dropped we got bacteria and fungus cause lowered immune system (i.e. acidic blood, cells protect themselves), Body can’t repair , i.e. cells take no action in increasing androgens. I mean in a way it makes sense look at people getting wrinkles and bad teeth, body stealing nutrients away to try and fight infection? I don’t know. Who’s to say it’s not a hormonal problem, these side effects work hand in hand. low hormones -> low immune system, low immunesystem ->low hormones.

and prove me if i’m wrong candida is caused by a hormonal imbalance in our case high estrogen is a breeding ground for all things bad? your saying if we kill this shit our body will balance out?

#11

BTW

sodium bicarbonate aka baking soda isn’t used to treat any androgen related illnesses AFAIK. However it may help with your heart burn.

#12

I didn’t say I was using it to treat androgen related problems. I was using it to treat low aldotesterone= electrolyte imbalance = acidic blood. Was trying a different approach, this wasnt the answer. All i know is my muscle twitches stopped and back pain… and i felt better… Sodium bicarbonate is an alkalizer. Bacteria and Fungals thrive on alkalized blood, But alkalized blood is neeeded for healthy function of cells.

#13

More of my background info is posted in the member section viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5033

#14

I found this intresting, suffering from a few of these. Might have to go checked for parasites. Pretty sure this is downstream though.

Common Symptoms
of Parasites in Humans
Constipation: Some worms, because of their shape and large size. can physically obstruct certain organs. Heavy worm infections can block the common bile duct and the intestinal tract, making elimination infrequent and difficult.

Diarrhoea: Certain parasites, primarily protozoa, produce a prostaglandin (hormonelike substances found in various human tissues) which creates a sodium and chloride loss that leads to frequent watery stools. The diarrhoea process in parasite infection is, therefore, a function of the parasite, not the body’s attempt to rid itself of an infectious organism.

Gas and Bloating: Some parasites live in the upper small intestine where the inflammation they produce causes both gas and bloating. The situation can be magnified when hard-to-digest foods such as beans and raw fruits and vegetables are eaten. Persistent abdominal distention is a frequent sign of hidden invaders. These gastrointestinal symptoms can persist intermittently for many months or years if the parasites are not eliminated from the body.

Irritable bowel syndrome: Parasites can irritate inflame, coal, the intestinal cell wall, leading to a variety of gastrointestinal symptoms and malabsorption of vital nutriens, particularly fatty substances. This malabsorption leads to bulky stools and steatorrhea (excess far in feces).

Joint and muscle aches and pains: Parasites are known to migrate to encyst (become enclosed in a sac) in joint fluids, and worms can encyst in muscles. Once Ads happens, pain becomes evident and is often assumed to be caused by arthritis Joint and muscle pains and inflammation are also the result of tissue damage caused by some parasites of the body’s ongoing immune response to then- presence.

Anaemia: Some varieties of intestinal worms attach themselves to the mucosal lining of the intestines and then leach nutrients from the human host. If they are present in large enough numbers, they can create enough blood loss to cause a type of iron deficiency or pernicious

Allergy: Parasites can irritate and sometimes perforate the intestinal lining, increasing bowel permeability to large undigested molecules. This can activate the body’s immune response to produce increased levels of eosinophils, one type of the body’s fighter cells. The eosinophils can inflame body tissue, resulting in an allergic reaction. Like allergy, parasites also trigger an increase in the production of immunoglobulin E (IgE).

Skin conditions: Intestinal worms can cause hives, rashes, weeping eczema, and other allergic-type skin reactions. Cutaneous ulcers, swellings and sores, popular lesions, and itchy dermatitis can afl result from protozoan invasion.

Granuiomas: Granulomas are tumour-like masses that encase destroyed large or parasitic eggs. They develop most often in the colon or rectal walls but can also be found in the lungs liver, peritoneum, and uterus.

Nervousness: Parasitic metabolic wastes and toxic substances can serve as irritants to the central nervous system. Restlessness and anxiety are often the result of the systemic parasite infestation. (After completing a herbal cleanse, many people swear that their persistently grouchy mates or relatives have become a lot more pleasant and patient. “The most famous tapeworm of recent years belonged to the late opera singer Maria Callas. She had a serious weight and skin problem. When the tapeworm was detected and removed, ha” weight dropped, her skin improved and her temperament mellowed," says Gittleman.)

Sleep disturbances: Multiple awakening during the night particularly between 2 and 3 AM, are possibly caused by the body’s attempts to eliminate toxic wastes via the liver. According to Chinese medicine, these hours are governed by the liver. Sleep disturbances are also caused by nocturnal exits of certain parasites through the anus, creating the intense discomfort and itching.

Teeth grinding: Bruxism - abnormal grinding, clenching, and gnashing of the teeth - has been observed in cases of parasitic infection. These symptoms are most noticeable among sleeping for children. Bruxism may be a nervous response to the internal foreign irritant.

Chronic fatigue: Chronic fatigue symptoms include tiredness, flu-like complaints, apathy, depression, impaired concentration, and faulty memory. Parasites cause these physical, mental, and emotional symptoms through malnutrition resulting from malabsorption of proteins, carbohydrates, fats, and especially vitamins A and B-12.

Immunie Dysfunction: Parasites depress immune system functioning by decreasing the secretion of immunoglobulin A (I&A). Their presence continuously stimulates the system response and over time can exhaust this vital defense system, leaving the body open to bacterial and viral infections.

#15

So I sopke with propeciashiz the other day and we were speaking about dehydration. Because I notice that when I feel like im dying i notice that my TONGUE is white and nasty looking. Now if we look at dehydration which can be caused by messed up levels of Aldosterone, We can see things like a sodium/potassium imbalance. If this occurs your tongue can go white and you can experience the side effects like Dizzy/Lightheaded, Nausa, extremely fatigued(in my case feeling like i havent slept in days), Baddd headaches, muscle twitches, low grade fever, etc. Also a key sign of dehydration is elevated levels of Blood pressue ESPECIALLY your Diastolic. Now with Candida(Yeast) Infection we notice almost the same exact symtoms just that there can be more symptoms than dehydration.

In My Opinion:
I have had 4 episodes where I was bed bound for atleast 7 days and up to 14 days.
Since STOPPING propecia in December, these 4 episodes happened at different dates, started exactly 2 weeks after I quit propecia!
The WHITE tongue was present in every instance, and has been questioned by some friends and family that looked like I had candida.
Now until i get my tests back next week I wont know which direction to go. Messed up Aldosterone levels(DEHYDRATION) or elevated Estrogen levels(Candida) BUT I will tell all of you that I am very suspicious to why I felt so amazing for 5 months while on a strict juicing diet and veggies/fruit and then once I started to fall off track I became sick again in a matter of a month.
I BELIEVE that we all have different symptoms because we are all different. Getting to the bottom of each of our cause is what it comes down to.
I think that we need to understand that in order to fix ourselves. Because I DONT have alot of your symptoms and you dont have mine.
SO it is clear that it has effected us all in different ways.
There are many of us so we will see common symptoms shared. But the solution may be different for each of us or the SAME…
Time will tell, lets just all stick together!
AND LET NO INFORMATION BE SHUNNED UPON BY ANYONE, WE ARE ALL JUST TRYING TO HELP
My DOCTOR said Im obsessed with this. I told him I understand what it looks like to someone not living in my world. But just think when you see a homeless person on the street you get sad while you see it, but as you keep walking your world continues and you no longer feel sad.
Its the same thing with us. OUR doctors may feel bad but they will never truly know what each of us goes through on a Hourly Basis,.
With that said,.its easier to say the persons obsessed with trying to feel better because they have the time and knowledge to do it but your time is limited and your mind span is restricted because of all you deal with on a HOURLY basis.

Anyways Thats My View On The Subject.

P>S> I have been juicing for 3 days now and I am no longer feeling like death, the headaches have subsided, the fatigue is still there but not to the point where I cant get out of bed (Takes a while to wake up in the morning) And key POINT is my tongue is no longer fully white and nasty. I would say it is 60 % pink again and towards the top it is still white. I would says I feel 60% better as well so using my tongue as a gauge is pretty acurate.

#16

very well said!! lets all stick together and share as much info and experiences as possible!!

#17

How are you doing these days? Are you still recovered?