-
FORGIVINESS… Forgive yourself for having taken this drug. It wasn’t your fault, the doctor s fault, and who knows if Merck knew about the extent of damage this drug could cause. The truth is every new medication is a huge risk. It is a pity we did not know this before. In 2004 when i started taking Fin, i did a thorough reseach on the web and didn’t find anything against Finasteride.
You know, i took one year off everything trying to recover. I recovered from the panic attacks and the depression, the rest is still the same.
Until a few months ago, i felt so much anger… so much disgust for this situation. This is absolutely normal, but this won’t help you eighter. -
Find someone who truly loves you, the way you are now. I have learned this helped me tremendously. The sex might not be the same, but the pleasure of kissing, hugging, cuddling, laughing, spending time together can still be the same.
if you are not gay then you should stop living a lie
if your libido is low then why do you feel the need to sexually satisfy someone you have no attraction to?
just stop and think and make sure you are not doing yourself any long term mental damage with your current actions
i agree with everything else you wrote though , especially re forgiving yourself for using the ‘safe’ pill that caused you to become ill in the first place! personally i’ve forgiven myself , i know that beating myself up over it will not help me get better
I understand your point of view. Thanks for the reply.
correovip… I was doubting myself at one point and thought that maybe the fin was not the source of my problems.I thought though that maybe the fin has affected androgen receptors in my brain and penis and has not made me sexually attracted to females?
Your mind starts playing tricks on you once it realizes that a large sexual portion of it is malfunctioning.
Then with some an OCD starts accelerating,where you actually believe and come to terms with those reactive thoughts and drives instead of rational thinking once you were confident and not stricken with anxiety.
I love the appearance of girls.I love kissing and doing anything I can to satisfy and please.My mind is greatly detatched and my errections are short lived but I have the interest,but have been feeling depressed due to failure,and the stress and anxiety is killing me.
I will continue to fight this affliction and I’m sure with the right help it will all be reversed.I wont give up and I dont think it’s possible to damage the androgen/dht receptor permanently. If worse comes to worse, I will use proviron or andractim to produce dht without the need for 5AR.
I am still in the process of doing all my labs and tests to see where I stand.
I believe that changes in the brain and the failed link between the penis and the brain can play havoc with your confidence and make anyone second guess themselves as to what changes they have underwent!
However, If you find yourself happy and are able to achieve good errections with your male friend,then maybe your dht is working and you will find happiness and success this way.Good for you then.
I do believe that something so strong as fin can change the brain chemistry and mutate gene expression in the libido centres of the prefrontal cortex,the amygdala and the cingulate gyrus.Also the left head of the Caudate nucleus might be affected as to cause constant repetitive negative ruminition and negative thoughts(squirel cage) OCD.
Any lack of confidence with the opposite sex and some experimenting and enjoyment of the prostate being stroked might leave one to think they have a preference for males,once running into probs with libido and errection isuuses.
I’m not saying this applies to everyone,but it sure is hell on an individual when one does not see any recovery,starts to second guess,and loses all hopes.
Stay healthy,strong and happy my friend.
I am glad to report that i have reached a point i can live a normal life. I am working, i am dating, and i feel happy. Once in a while i have minor problems that i will describe here. But in general, and considering what i ve been through i can call myself recovered. It s been over 4 months. I call it a partial recovery just because i have to follow some guidelines or i ll have symptoms, and because i am not the same i was before. But other than that, i am having a good life.
What i have to do:
- Strict diet: Gluten free, sugar free, caffeine free, less lactose (milk only mixed in foods, like mashed potatoes for example, never drink it). I decided not to eat processed foods because it makes it easier.
- Mild exercise 4 times a week: I do 20 minutes of bicycle or threadmil.
- Avoid medications.
In the past two years, i got great improvement by following this path. Some medications and supplements helped along the way, and i will detail everything in the following days, but the basics is really the diet. It was trial and error, every food category was tested separate to see what caused to my metabolism. I will detail this post in the following days, as i want to make it as accurate as possible. I will stay to answer some questions for a month or so, then i will be away for some time. I hope this works for other people too.
In a very simple way, problems PFS has caused in my metabolism/ the way i felt it:
- “Slow” liver.
- Over acting adrenals
- Thyroid can go from hypo to hyper depending on what i eat or drink
- Allergic reaction to some foods
- Deficient cortisol response to stress
- Deficient neurosteroid synthesis
- Dopamine deficiency
- Erection difficulties
- Weak orgasm
- Little ejaculate volume
- Lack of libido
Will be updated later tonight, i need to go out now.
correiovip,
Thanks for the update. I am wondering of your diet changes included a change in the types of fats/oils you consume. You mention avoiding processed food, which should avoid the many vegetable oils used in those foods. Can you give details of the types of foods you’re eating now?
Thanks for checking in - kazman
I coiuldn’t be happier for you. Thanks for posting this information, gives alot of people hope. There are alot of people on the board now like me who are 6 or 7 months off Fin and wondering what to expect in the future. Frankly, I have a difficult time believing I will be at all "better’ much less have the opportunity to say I"m “recovered”.
Would you say you are back to your old pre-Fin self in all respects? Physically, mentally and sexually? Or, a percentage of your old self? I know we go through so much shit its hard to even remember sometimes what Pre Fin felt like.
Congratulations!!!
Posts like this infuse me with hope.
When you say no sugar, did that include fruit?
Hi guys,
Sorry i took long to reply.
Kazman:
“Thanks for the update. I am wondering of your diet changes included a change in the types of fats/oils you consume. You mention avoiding processed food, which should avoid the many vegetable oils used in those foods. Can you give details of the types of foods you’re eating now?”
Kazman, i guess the answer is yes, but in fact i eat very little fat now. Sometimes i cook with olive oil, but i eat out frequently here in Brazil, and most places use corn or canola oil. So i think it doesnt make a lot of difference because i don’t eat anything deep fried anymore.
The idea with this was to have a diet that didnt affect my metabolism too much, and i guess it doesn’t affect my adrenals.
Basically, what i eat: Beans, rice, potatoes (never fried), yuca/ cassava, yam, sweet potatoes, corn, lots of vegetables, lots of fruits, brazilian cheese bread (no gluten, no sugar. Only sometimes for me, it has a lot of fat), olive oil, corn oil or butter (never margerine or similar). Nothing deep fried. It is seems to be very restricted, but when you learn to cook, and when you see how many fruit and vegetables options you have, you realize it is doable. If you want to try this, you could look for a brazilian restaurant in your area to have an idea of what i eat. Mexican works too, but usually they use more fat and fry a lot of stuff.
So, lets take what i ate today for example:
-
Breakfast:
yuca cookies baked with a little butter (Gluten free, no sugar, bake at home)
1 small papaya, 1 apple
guava juice -
Lunch:
Rice
beans (its a myth about the gases it may cause. I guarantee you your body gets used to it. Plus it is great for your health)
grilled salmon
broccolis
steamed tomatoes
mashed pumpkin with a little butter -
Dinner:
Mashed potatoes
rice
grilled chicken
Snacks : fruits, juices (only freshly squeezed), baked tortillas (and similar snakcs)
Rules of thumb:
- I use salty foods to speed my metabolism, fruits to slow it down. I usually feel the need to have a fruit after a salty meal.
- Exercise to “build” neurosteroids, dopamine and ocitocin
- Remember, only mild exercise. You don t want to over excite your adrenals. 20 to 30 min bicycle or treadmill does it for me.
If you think about it, by avoiding gluten and strong exercise, you re avoiding the same problem: inflamation. For some reason my body doesn t do this process the way it did.
Boston:
Thanks! It was a long process for me, 4 years. But don t give up, i never thought i could feel this way again!!!
About your question:
-
Physically (Feel 90% like i was)
Only two restrictions:1. avoid strong exercise. 2. I avoid sun on my face, because after propecia i started having rosacea. So to avoid using medications, i avoid outbreaks by wearing a baseball hat outside, and use a salicilic soap on my face daily. Other than that, i feel energetic and calm, like i was before. Also, in September, my metabolism seemed to “start up”. I LOST 27 POUNDS, OUT OF NOWHERE. You may think it has to do with this diet, but i ve been on the same diet for 1 year and 9 months, only minor changes. I will detail this “restart” later on another post, later. -
Mentally: (Feel 90% like i was)
I feel sharp, clear minded, normal… The only thing that sometimes may happen is to get slightly “down” mood wise. But only if i stop exercising for a month, for example. If i keep my exercise, i feel great. -
Sexually: (85% like before)
Orgasm (feel 90% like before - Huge improvement in the past six months)
Erections size - normal, same as before
Morning erection - normal
Ejaculate volume - half of what was, but similar strengh when ejaculate
Libido - I love porn again !!! lol… oh boy, that was i huge improvement in the past six months.
I ALWAYS have a spontaneous erection when having sex.
One restriction:
I avoid to have sex standing up. There is a risk to have a softer erection if standing. It always works rock hard laying down though, in many positions, lol.
Overall, i am very happy. It was an ordeal, the hardest and most excruciating battle i ever thought someone could have. But i feel completely different now, i just want to forget i went through this. I had very strong depression, very strong headaches, allergic reactions, lung inflamations, metabolism inbalances, diarrea, acid reflux disease, joint pains, fever like symptoms, sexual problems… and the list goes on. The hardest was the depression… very strong, nothing worked to stop it! And i won! So don’t give up, you WILL find a way. You need to keep trying, trial and error, with foods, lifestyle changes, etc…
19:
Thanks man! Keep trying.
Tim:
I avoid only bananas, and mango. They slow me down too much. If you want to try this diet you need to try one by one and observe your reactions. See what works for you. But the most important things to avoid are caffeine and gluten.
I will post again this week.
Hi corrieovip,
Congratulations on your progress and courage. I remember reading your story and you had many sides, including shrinkage and gyno, even some loss of muscle mass. Has the diet and exerices regimen corrected all this?
I also recall your T levels were pretty low and you were even thinking about trying TRT via Crisler, have you had any recent bloodwork done?
I don’t know maybe your body is more susceptible to changing diet and lifestyle as a way of beating this. Didn’t you feel a lot better eating chicken hearts not so long ago?
Also, would you mind illustrating how much your libido, ed, fog etc has improved on a scale of ten from it’s worst to what it is now?
Brazil must be a pretty cool place to live if you’ve nearly recovered, have fun…
Hi Luckfax,
Thank you. Yes i had a lot of sides. My gino has reversed gradually along the years, and it wasnt as bad to begin with. So i think that made it easier to reverse. Muscle mass: when i started propecia, i actually gained a lot of muscle. Very fast, and i was not even working out! So when i got sick from propecia, i was actually much stronger (in terms of muscle mass) than before. Now, with the muscle loss, the fact that i am not bloated anymore, and the weight loss, i got pretty much the body i had before. Shrinkage: My balls are not as big as before propecia, but definetely not as small as they got at the lowest point. The difference is evident to me, but it looks normal. Also, some reflexes are back, my scrotum contracts when i ejaculate or when it s cold and my balls lay closer to my body like before. There is another factor that may have contributed for this improvement besides the diet and exercise. I had to take corticoids (prednisone) about 8 times in a little more than a year (always for a 5 day period maximum, or there is a danger of causing adrenal failure. The body then needs up to 14 days to “restart” your adrenals after corticoids). So basically, i had to suppress and then restart my adrenals 8 times since August 2009. This happened because i developed allergies to some foods, and only found out the worst way, lol. Although i felt bad while taking the corticoids (lethargy, even smaller balls, no libido), after a while i always felt better. So this may have been a factor but there is no way to prove it or to know it.
Yes, there was a point i considered TRT. I am so glad i didnt do it. I was very, very tired at the time, and desperate times make you consider desperate measures.
I haven t done any blood work yet, as i am pretty broke, lol… I just started working again after 4 years, so i need to pay some bills! But i want to test again just as curiosity, but i dont care if it comes low again, as long as i feel like this. But even without testing hormones, there are so many evident signs… I lost 27 pounds in a month or two, without changing ANYTHING in my diet or exercises. I have the same body composition i had before propecia. It felt like my metabolism turned “on”.
Libido:
I think the best way to illustrate is that i love porn again, and WANT to masturbate or have sex. It went from 0 to 6. Some days 7, maximum 8.
ED:
Normal erections: 10
Spontaneous erections when having sex: 10
Spontaneous erections when thinking about sex: 3
Morning erections : most days 10, on rare ocasions 8 or 9
I feel pretty normal, even compared to before.
BRAIN FOG:
My brain fog vanished since i stopped eating gluten. Never came back. i don’t think i had severe brain fog compared to some cases on the forum though, i had bad brainfog on selected days.
“I don’t know maybe your body is more susceptible to changing diet and lifestyle as a way of beating this”
I believe this is true, and i guess it could have something to do with the fact that i got allergic to some foods. So my body really reacts to what i eat now. Before propecia i had only respiratory allergies, never a single episode of food allergies. My Pneumologist cant still explain the change in my allergic pattern. I never told her about propecia. She keeps saying “I have never seen this, such a drastic change in ones allergic pattern.”
But a good diet should be beneficial to anyone in this situation. Just changing from processed foods to more natural ones will expose you to a whole lot more nutrients that you may be deficient and dont even know. Who knows if it is the same thing to absorb the a vitamin from a pill or from a fruit?
Hope you get better, follow your intuition, it helped me a lot. Good luck.
update 03/28/11
I have improved so much sexually. It is improving gradually and there are variations, but definitely in the right direction. The variations are becoming less frequent. The ups are more constant, the downs more sparce. But the trend is clear.
I ve been having normal erections for a good time now, i am able to have sex or masturbate. Very constant. Libido is what varies the most. I feel what i need to improve now is how to build dopamine faster, like it was before propecia.
I have been on a strict diet for two years. Last week i decided to add bread, a couple of salty snacks, and fried potato chips back to my diet, just for testing, for a week.
Turns out i had a NORMAL week, as far as sex… My balls were completely full and round, normal erection, LIBIDO, urge to ejaculate, and my ejaculation was thick, not watery anymore, on three different days. What a surprise! I guess the fried foods gave me the dopamine punch i was looking for (and somehow my body is responding to it again in terms of libido), and bread has always given me a relaxed feeling (which propecia took away, but is coming back gradually now). The biggest surprise was to see the consistency of my ejaculation. Normal, full, thick, sticky (sorry i need to describe this). Not watery anymore. Never thought this would happen again!!! It is the FIRST time this happens in five years. By this time i thought it was a prostate problem, but no! It is clearly related to dopamine and gaba in my opinion. Reversible! So i am back to my regimen! I ll let my body heal itself for longer before i add these foods again. I ve reached a state that i am having a good life, so not a big deal to wait a little longer.
I have had the exact same phases Corrie, and I know what you mean about the semen - it’s amazing how our body can just flick a switch and put things right like that. Unfortunately these good times keep crashing down on me. I don’t want to put you down at all, maybe your recovery will stick in the long term but just don’t be too disappointed if things get bad again.
I wish you the very best!
correiovip,
congratulations on feeling better and recovering. I don’t see anywhere in your story, how long you took propecia for? Hopefully, you will come back soon and let us know how long you actually took the drug.
I’m more concerned that I have never seen anyone that took it for more than a couple of years recover. I also noticed that when you started this thread 3 years ago you went from 0-30% libido. I go from 0-0%. So I wonder if your damage was somewhat limited compared to some of us that might be worse off.
I have altered my diet since realizing that I have adrenal fatigue and hypothyroidism. I have added more protein and reduced the carbs. It’s difficult them to weed them out entirely. I would like to drop the bread for a while to see if it helps.
hi boston,
Thanks! I took finasteride for 1 year and a half. I know it is hard to change the diet, but trust me it is worth it. You need to eat natural foods only, our livers are screwed from this drug. You can check my story on another thread “my story, nickname correiovip”.
If Mew or a moderator reads this, could you move this whole thread into “my story, nickname correiovip”? Thanks!
OMG great story, LOVE it.
I cant WAIT to be posting on here about my recovery. It’ll happen. I believe in 2011 for sure they’re be a clear path for a full (well 90% sexual recovery.)
Thanks for the hope
This is an amazing thread. Three years off and virtually no improvement - another year and half of following a basic strict diet and exercise protocol and still not so much improvement but then a major change. The ramp up in metabolism is crucial I think - suddenly losing 27 pound with really no changes to the diet followed the prior 1.5 years. And of course with the return of metabolism also the healing and return of sexual function.
I am really curious on this given my last MDs opinion that time will eventually heal us but it may be 3-5 years. I think the diet here helped speed the process but at some point somthing clicked in your body. Rising T and also cortisol/thyroid sped up your metabolism, you lost a good bit of weight which lowered your estrogen levels and gave you even more energy. Really great stuff and I am happy for you.
The question is how can others replicate your success. Is it just clean living and time? Its amazing looking at your post from two years ago after 3 years off thinking you would never recover and had just come to accept your state. I also wonder about how much manipulation some of us do on these boards - supplements, drugs, hormones with little effect. Not knocking those but I wonder sometimes.
Did you abstain from alcohol as well?
I know what you’re saying
I think any drug assistance has to be very gentle on the body to HELP your body help itself.
Actually he takes (on and off) a high dose of prednisone – so high that adrenal glands are suppressed. Also all others that improved by (also) boosting their metabolism were all taking a very high dosage of a “metabolism boosting” drug, i.e. cortisol boosting drug (e.g. HC) or T3/T4 boosting drug (e.g. cytomel). The examples are the following:
JN:
He who took so much T3 that his FT3 was 43 on a range of 2 to 6,
Dury:
He was on so much Synthroid that his thyroid was suppressed, and his T4 and T3 were both out of range
TSh, 3rd Generation: .02 Range .4-4.5
T4 Total: 16.3 Range 4.5-12.5
T3, Free: 506 Range 230-420
correiovip:
Suppressive dose of prednisone
Obviously, I’m not saying that any of these drugs is the cure, because it’s not. I’m just trying to identify patterns in recovery stories.