My Saw Palmetto Nightmare

Member Stories
#62

The D3 after my back and forth battle with it way after initially getting sensation back with osha root (literally one capsule, it was like magic, no idea what happened there besides I feel it may have had something to do with the oxytocin in it), much later rebounding off the ultra high dose vitamin C after taking it at a baseline of 2 grams every day the entire time made me much worse in different way with the extreme over stimulation, anxiety/mood swings, and insomnia) into the hops is what made things do their thing again. If I have an immune reaction to something my neuropathy in my head and face flares but hops knock it right back to at least a minimum and adding the myrrh onto that completely kills it again but blunts excitory responses a bit in a double edged sword sort of fashion that doesn’t cause a crash.

In between the high dose vitamin C experiments I had a level of improvement after using cinnamon every day on my breakfast and that was after rebounding off the weird reaction I had to cooked salmon meat which was an increase in emotions and romantic feelings again which eventually stuck after I did this a couple times a week for around a month. If you dig around you’ll also find a weird note on someone with POIS on the subreddit who also gets improvements from cooked salmon meat. Many others report it can lead to migraines so I imagine when some compound in it gets cooked it becomes very volatile in how vulnerable individuals to it can react whatever that is. I never got a migraine from it, having it now this far out i’m just more calm after eating it and into the next day. No other fish or seafood does this.

Currently I dropped the myrrh because I wanted to just continue with the hops, the blunting and pro-social effect of the myrrh is useful but not all the time. I’m probably going to start playing with concentrated cannabis derived terpenes in the hops tea to see if I can get effects from it to swing in one way or another. The new strain won’t come in till next week so I’ll be waiting a while on that.

#63

Just an update, still waiting on the other hops but I’m taking a break from them right now and am just on the Yucca I recently added as over using them led to too much fatigue and episodes of depression. I relief when I dose again later but then it just keeps going in circles. So essentially I just turn into a sad, lethargic, and horny mess if I use them too much in too many days in a tow. No withdrawals past that though, definitely a strange plant because I never had something I could get hooked on that has immediate withdrawals past a point but nothing after that. Also caused some digestive distress when over used too. But I eventually had to when using daily like that increase to 3 heaping tablespoons to get any relief that would just feed the cycle. This has shot me right out of whatever was going on though as I’m clearly out of the whole PFS bubble now after I added the Yucca to my daily stack.

I’m still experimenting with the myrrh but I have the actual resin on the way to make tea with because I feel like with the capsules my reaction may have been mixing with the magnesium stearate in them.

#64

Ok in further testing things with ER agonists I decided to see what would happen if I tried red clover, largely there is not much to this but a bunch of phyto-estrogens with according to some study but it doesn’t list the specific compound binding to both the mu and delta opioid receptors. After one cup the hops digestive issues and immune reaction that felt like a reactivated virus I was dealing with post that made worse by the spring pollen which is why I stopped immediately calmed down and my nervous system felt more regulated again as well as calming my mind down a lot. Today besides some flare-y immune problems and a little returned digestive issues I feel better than yesterday. It seems like modulating ER receptors but with different sub mechanisms like whether the gaba receptors or opioid receptors are modulated on the side determines what kind of loop my guts/immune system/nervous system get into. Though like before even getting in this PFS/PSSD boat in general for many years I still deal with persistent immune and nervous system dysregulation with neuropathy in the same old places with post-viral like symptoms often flaring whenever they want.

So I’ve decided to finally bite the bullet and try serrapeptase which this whole time I have stayed away from because I was afraid of a brutal herx but I’m going to give it a try and see what happens at a fraction of a capsule to start going low and slow. I feel like what is underlying all of this is some kind of persistent infection or multiples that are not being cleared.

update 4/30 - I have tried the serrapeptase (120,00 SPU’s), this stuff is amazing whatever it is specifically doing. I usually especially after work and right before the evening experience an increase in the burning brain sort of thing with some brain pressure but this stuff completely eliminates it leaving just a little pressure no matter what I was doing or what I ate, less pressure and lighter tinnitus in my bad ear that when I crashed way back became so painful it felt like it was going to explode 24/7 with roaring tinnitus, it is the only thing that has cleared up both sinuses, improved sensory clarity better than the last couple things I tried, a great reduction in brain fog, and anxiety levels about the same but in general more calm and feel more in control. Overall this stuff hits the ENTIRE remain symptom cluster I’m dealing with. Side effects include random migrating aches all over my body with no pattern besides at the base of my neck (there is also some random pulsing here) where the nervous system and immune problems in my head/face seem to stem from. My remaining symptom cluster is directly in line with what a lot of people on the covid longhaule sub are dealing with which is where I originally got the idea to try this from.

My current theory on the serrapeptase is something in my guts producing a protein based compound that is reacting itself to things and then causing reactions from the immune system and nervous system while being directly toxic to both.

edit later 4/30 - I decided to later drink some red clover tea on top of the current stack today which this morning had the added. The green tea I had before lead to a mild surge in that burny brain effect but temporarily and it didn’t last. It knocked it down a notch and stablized and cleared my senses a bit more. It also on top of the serrapeptase gave a bit more clarity of speech yet at the same time bloated my guts a bit whereas before without the serra it didn’t do that. The effects profile and duration they appear with the red clover was the same though a bit more mild.

It seems there is some sort of gut central metabolite loop problem that in chain reaction with some possible viral mechanism or other pathogenic mechanism leads to what happens. Tonight I decided to be a fat ass and get some fried food and see what that does on top of this. Interestingly the brain foggy effects I’d expect on this stack are greatly lessened. What really makes symptoms worse for sure appears to be anything central to glutamate though that can be broken down into probably the most compounds but gut bacteria than anything else. Right now I’m hinging what is going on here with the above theory as that’s currently the only thing that makes sense here. It could be that when specific receptors are triggered while certain reactions are going on some virus or pathogen instantly goes in for the kill and wreaks havoc on the entire system. I got better on yucca glauca root because clearing ammonia takes away a resource from the bacteria/pathogens/viruses responsible.

I ordered caricain to see what happens if I double this up on top of the serrapeptase to see if I can get further with that but it’ll take a while to come in.

#65

It’s been a little while since I been on the enzyme supplements. The combination of serrapeptase and papain is doing well. One interesting thing I noticed is when taking both of these and continuing with the myrhh I am starting to have normal immune reactions to things I normally would that fizzle out faster now. I’m also starting to have normal stress responses now instead of everything in life feeling like an anxiety ridden blur on the constant verge of panic attack with never ending random crying spells. My previous default of higher skin sensitivity to cold and much higher heat tolerance has returned. The myrrh on this stack with the enzymes is the anxiety stabilizer for me that also benefits my speech problems.

I have caricain specifically on the way (also from papaya) to see how that stacks on top of this but not sure when that will come in.

#66

It’s been a while! Recently I have gotten on an enzyme routine that has been working out for me the best. It’s serrapaeptase every morning and caricain (from Gluteguard, only supplement that has it I know of only). But fatigue and blunting dip wise from over extertion in a hot flu like PEM sort of manner I was still getting from time to time. When I get there it takes quite a while for me to bounce back out.

On another forum I saw a lot of talk about RLT or red light therapy. So I took what someone recommended which was a red and near infrared mini combo from Redlightman and decided to try it. My reaction at first was pretty brutal I felt much better in literally minutes BUT I felt really over charged and the burning feeling in my forehead increased a lot even though I was feeling better in almost every other way. I started at a minute and that is all I was able to tolerate. The second day I did this again and this time it fully turned sweating back on again. I couldn’t believe it but the side effects of over stimulation and blanking out much later in the day especially around bed time were getting worse. After this repeated on day 3 at 1 minute on the top and back of my head I scaled back to once every few days. Then after a short time of that seeing as I was able to enjoy benefits while managing side effects that lessened over time I was able to move to every other day at a minute. Then I was able to increase by 30 seconds at every other day which is where I’m at now as I’m still very early into RLT. Everything is just better with this, in fact once I broke through the initial side effects of doing this I have no idea how I was even surviving without it.

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#67

Quite the transformation I see looking at your old posts and now. People are going to start thinking the saw palm afflicted have better prognosis odds, if they don’t already. No substantial evidence we do though. I could also see them saying “why are still trying things if you recovered?” Well, post-syndromes are not the only diseases in the world. Preventing and/or treating other unrelated conditions that may or may have developed before or after sounds reasonable to me.

Some comments, although I won’t quote the specific posts, whether recent or distant:

Pine needle tea has around 4-5 times the vitamin c of orange juice, depending on source. The trees grow everywhere, thus this can be a free of charge source.

Turmeric can lower iron 20-90 percent: https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC6414192/ I imagine you did not monitor such levels before or after. Theoretically could be good if you have excessive levels, but could be disastrous if you are already deficient.

Opioid antagonist naloxone reverses myrrhs analgesic effects, thus indicating myrrh is an opioid agonist like kratom. I read this before it was pushed behind a paywall: https://www.nature.com/articles/379029a0 I never used naloxone, but myrrh and kratom separately both prevent prune juice induced diarrhea in my experience, further indicating myrrh has opioid effects like kratom.

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#68

Well I was on lions mane for a bit over a year before this too which caused a lot of anxiety but gave me energy so that probably was a pre-crash element. And yes I keep trying things because I still have neurological dysregulation and cognition issues I had long before this but I never experienced anything like I did from saw palmetto from anything else, this was a whole different animal. Never experienced extreme sexual dysfunction, brain burning, skin numbness, or anhedonia before.

Have not tried pine needle tea before myself or even knew that was a thing. And no I didn’t monitor iron levels that never crossed my mind, didn’t know turmeric could do that. And yes I still take the myrrh every evening, I don’t get anything up front from it anymore I just kept it there.

Another odd thing, though I didn’t crash the other night I had some food with a lot of black pepper in it and yesterday post that I had a surge in the brain burning and skin numbness feeling and over stimulation though I eat tons of histamine just fine. I did feel kind of odd one other night after eating some fries that had a bunch of black pepper on them too but didn’t know if it was just me feeling off that night and the next day in a general sense. Used my red combo light this morning and it knocked it right out. No idea what that could imply.

#69

Simple black pepper has androgenic power increases testosterone is a mild stimulant like coffee, vitamin D, zinc, maca… If you reacted badly it’s because the share of DHT has increased, which is obviously neurotoxic for you as for many including me. It only depends on the level of neuro toxicity of each one and how much capacity we have to repair ourselves from the oxidative stress that DHT produces. For example, I’m having important problems of strength in my arms, holding, objects and shoulders after the legs are losing a lot of strength even the arms but if I take an antidepressant like SSRI that inhibits DHT as I did a long time ago because they thought I was crazy I’m back to being a little stronger this makes me think that DHT is the cause of the problems

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#70

I figured that might be why because when I had the bad reaction to the black pepper I had an unnatural surge of libido but it didn’t feel good. My dysphoria was through the roof. Like if I satisfied it, I wouldn’t feel anything and it would keep going with this shitty wired feeling with less emotions and social skills connected. And yes that also happened but since I don’t even have much muscle tone it felt more like weakness on a cellular level, I was running on empty. Brain barely had enough energy to speak or process things. Then today I just popped right out of it and now everything is normal again. Got hit with a migraine though.

#71

Yes I also often have migraines is a symptom that the brain has been subjected to a significant wave of DHT that caused you euphoria and all the symptoms you have described this has fatigued/intoxicated your brain no longer able to process DHT. The headache is a consequence of the stress to which the brain has been subjected by DHT. Usually the pain manifests itself above the eyes and fluctuates at the level of the eyebrows from right to left means that there is damage at the level of the prefrontal cortex and hippocampus as shown by Melcangi’s studies. This unfortunately confirms a bad thesis namely that we are no longer able to manage DHT and that the changes that occur at the level of the central nervous system are not reversible at least not with hormonal treatments but maybe there is no cure capable of allowing adequate metabolism it seems like asking the brain of a 4-year-old child to make equations or solve complex mathematical problems that’s why unfortunately in my opinion it is better only with the deprivation of hormones but not with anti-DHT because in fact there would still be an alteration and An imbalance would serve a general lowering of testosterone this would lead to a sustainability of the levels. In any case, the headache is due to the surge in DHT that has caused a high oxidative stress that the body tries to compensate for. You said you have little muscle tone but you didn’t explain if it’s tone or muscle mass because it seems you’re still able to sustain efforts and do activities that require physical endurance.

#72

Yup that is literally exactly where I get it, on top of that I also can’t do math at a level above very simple calculations in my head but luckily that tends to be all I need unless I’m at work and numbers get especially complex. In those cases I just right everything down, calculator it as best as I can and fact check it with numbers person. lol I think for these kinds of conditions we need an advanced genetic treatments that we hopefully see in our time but I’m also not expecting to since it’s bordering on immortality science when you get there. Sometimes I feel I’m holding on just for these cheap “cure all” all treatments that can revert cells and the nervous system back to more favorable default states. We’ll also see huge leaps in transgender care than the “just throw hormones at it and pray you can afford surgery and it doesn’t go horribly wrong” primitive treatment we have now.

On muscles I mean mass, my legs are at least pretty toned from years of being on my feet and being the car. What I meant on the weakness is it doesn’t feel like when that hits it comes from the legs or arms themselves but the brain not signalling to them strong enough to best try to describe it. Like just getting up walking from point A to point B, or doing some chores in my room becomes mission impossible. I get that heavy lead like feeling in them.

#74

So I have integrated lumbrokinase into the enzyme rotation. When I first took I had a horrible time, it was a brutal start up. Messed up my digestive system in a weird way (it felt kinda bloated and stiff but wasn’t too the touch, idk it was odd), felt like someone smeared chili oil all over my eyes and forehead in the usual area where that " brain burn" begins, and the rest of the day I had mood swings that made me feel like I was going insane, and by night it felt like someone had scooped out the front of my brain. I couldn’t even play a game, the crushing despair and weird cognitive problem where my brain couldn’t interpret what was going on entirely. Weirdly my sexual functioning was still intact.

Under this though all of my senses were much clearer and I had very brief windows where I felt better, there was a lot of rapid shifting that went on. The next day was much better that I took off from it, and when I took it again the next day after the side effects weren’t as strong, and appear to be getting weaker as I continue to feel better. As of today which is another on day with it I’m much mentally clearer, senses are far sharper, cognition better, speech better, no more even weird spicy feelings in my face or forehead, but last night I did start getting a sore throat which is still not great today. I’ve also in the summer heat here just been sweating out all day long as I don’t have air conditioning currently so I’m doing what I can with the sauna experience. the red combo light use is still at 2 minutes every other day which I also used this morning.

#75

The key for me is reducing food intolerances, which mostly also means low carb.Some cardio also important to get blood flowing.

Re : magnesium use magnesium oil applied topically on skin.Bypass the digestive system.

Re : anxiety try Jiaogulan, pure dried herb as tea.Or just chew it.

Re : brain fog (drunk feeling) has anyone tried blood donation? The problem is the liver being unable to keep up with toxin load in blood, removing some of the toxic blood may help.

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#76

I heard of that benefiting some people specifically, I never tried the topical magnesium myself by I initially had a weird isolated window way back from topical D3 when I couldn’t get anything out of much ingested at the time.

There is definitely something going on in the skin with conditions like this too. I didn’t get any skin abnormalities I could see besides not being able to sweat (I have recovered and regained this). But the worst cases whether the person took Finasteride or was like that disaster case where the person took one capsule of ashwagandha always will start with the anhedonia and sexual dysfunction, have the skin/genital numbness, skin deterioration, muscle deterioration, and everything just goes to total shit from there.

I am currently doing the best on enzyme therapy and red light therapy with near infrared here. I been mostly documenting everything I been doing on PheonixRising since I’m recovered from this specific condition completely but have a lot of residual fatigue, cognition, neuro-immune, and digestive problems that can still flare that I’m currently trying to find the complete inner workings of. A lot of people here haven’t recovered from enzymes or RLT though so I think you need to get to a point where your body is even responsive to the skin level treatments and then micromanage your way out. RLT is what turned on sweating for me again and gave me my sensory clarity back along with the enzyme treatments (currently only serrapeptase and caricain, lumbrokinase almost crashed me in the ME/CFS sense as I retained skin sensitivity and sexual functioning but I was able to wiggle my way out again thankfully).

#77

Epsom salt is magnesium sulfate, so if you ever used epsom salt topically, then you used topical magnesium.

I used ashwagandha around 7-9 months post-saw for a month or two. It helped me with sleep. Most capsules are 500 milligrams. I averaged 5 grams - equal to 10 capsules, and once taking an ounce/28 grams - equal to 56 or so capsules. Nothing bad happened to me. I felt it would be rude to post my experience with ash in @jgbrown08’s topic, so I restrained myself. Don’t want to sound like a doubter.

#78

Oh then yeah I have used that before, don’t normally use it. Maybe if I get a pulled muscle it and CBD cream is good for reducing the swelling but that’s all I use it for. I don’t mind, post away. I just stick around here because I think it helps to generally update everyone now and then on how I’m doing these days. Currently my focus is on RLT and my guts largely but it’s not too focused, just trying to maximize my well being and since I’m not working right now I have a lot of time. I used it before this all happened a few times. It never crashed me either though, it was just about to take the edge of my constant pressurized brain lions mane anxiety I had nearly 24/7 but I kept taking anyways like an idiot because it gave me lots of physical energy which is probably what led to this situation in the first place with the saw palmetto just dealing the final blows to my poor nervous system.

#79

Out of work for the time being too. Not all doom and gloom, as I have things to fall back on for now.

On another note: A local vendor tossed out over a $1,000 worth of kratom seltzer that I scavenged for free without having to pay. Around 200 cans valued at $7 per can. I won’t have to buy kratom for a long time. Unfortunately, the carbonation is nauseatingly intense that I have to pour it into another container and stir the excess foam until it dissipates enough. I don’t like how they added flavorings. Kratom tastes fine on its own. Can’t complain too much though, as it costed nothing, except the labor of hauling it back without a car. I only use it once a week so every time feels like the first time, and it prevents addiction, tolerance.

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#80

No worries man. My problem was the ashwaganda was expired by 2 years, stupid I know. I took the stuff just fine before, 0 issues. It helped me then too just like you. What I took had degraded into something toxic. Still affected the same areas as ash but because it had degraded, the compounds were likely not even ash chemically and instead just did damage. It was stupid, but I literally didn’t think anything of it. Like just popping an aspirin. Plus my case is just worse because of where I was regarding my Craniocervical fusion rehab. So yeah, generally, I think fresh product is usually not a big deal for most. I have come across a few severe cases and while a few have been from fresh product, many were from expired, just like me.

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#81

Well I won’t ever be going back to that cursed green mud but if it helps you drink away! I hate the taste of kratom, it’s like green tea gone wrong. When you get to the real high doses you’re also just shoveling tons of that mud down your throat. I have actually before tried an edible someone made me in the form of a cookie and it was a somewhat better experience though but still came with the big nausea for me and what it does to my digestive system. The hit was also really hard and sudden, with the drink it washes over more in waves. When tolerance gets higher, the positives for me really dimish and the withdrawals are the most psychologically brutal thing besides the general topic of this forum I ever went though. In fact when I crashed I was drinking kratom too and heavily addicted, I cold turkey’d in a panic not knowing what was happening to me. The PSSD like state + the severe acute withdrawals was like being in hell. I didn’t know it was possible for a brain to be that broken but still alive.

#82

I think you misunderstood me. I don’t use kratom for post-saw. I was already healthy again when I tried kratom the first time. I use it for recreation and to treat occasional diarrhea. I find it is a silver bullet for diarrhea in my experience, except it can be constipating. Fo-ti is a silver bullet for constipation in my experience, except it can cause diarrhea. Combining kratom and fo-ti largely cancels out the bowel adverse effects and amplifies the buzz effects in my experience. 20+ grams of fo-ti can cause limbs to go numb whether solo or combined. @justtrynamakeit Tagged because you mentioned constipation elsewhere, so rather than make a new post.

I never realized the notes of green tea in regards to kratoms taste until you pointed it out. It is much more stringent than green tea. I also just now noticed the earthy taste of kava is similar to the earthy taste of ginseng.

I notice kratom and kava prolong ejaculation. I average 60-120 thrusts without and 300-500 thrusts with kava or kratom. No impact on ejaculation force, volume, sensitivity, libido, or hardness.

PS: Fo-ti is touted for split ends, grey hair, and hair loss. I don’t use fo-ti for my hair. I always had excellent hair. Most people I see in post-syndrome testimonial videos don’t have noticeable hair loss or acne. Not saying they don’t though, just that I cannot tell. It might be noticeable to them, but it is not noticeable to me.

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