I’m just going to pop in here to say there has to be something in at least saw palmetto suffers and possibly others too on estrogen receptor spiking.
So I decided to try hesperidin 500 mg, I didn’t expect too much but I was hit with a a very confusing sack of bricks. In minutes I feel a bunch of energy but very unstable “immune system implosion” energy and as this happens all my senses open up, in fact I didn’t even know how much sensory information I was still missing from my skin before taking this. The immune response was terrible and my tinnitus really ramped up too but there was something very interesting about this immune reaction. It at it’s strongest partially disabled my sexual functioning YET everything including my genitals was more sensitive than it’s been since this initially happened. In fact there was no genital shrinkage at all, they were hanging normally but under the specific immune response condition originating from whatever shock reaction this was it wouldn’t respond (I’d later find out this was the likely the estrogen receptor signalling pathway). That immune response was literally the exact same one that correlated with my condition worsening right past the peak of the worst that kept snowballing until I was so sensitive to everything that I lose even my methyl-b12 that if you remember I really had to fight to get back. Only this time under it I was hyper sensitive and could sexually function as it was dying down a bit as the hours passed (it took almost 2 days to die down to manageable levels though), right before that happened in the beginning I lost sensation. So this time this surge in symptoms occured when it was turned back on!
I had no idea what had happened here. At first I was looking at studies on the gut and immune system regarding LPS inflammation but it didn’t really make sense. Though I got some benefits from bombing my guts with lyme/coinfection herbals before and initially got sensation back with osha root this couldn’t have been what happened because previously other things that significantly lowered LPS or LPS induced inflammation would have done this too but they didn’t. So I search other body systems and not much comes up. Then I search it with estrogen and find this.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC10574669/ - Hesperidin Anti-Osteoporosis by Regulating Estrogen Signaling Pathways
"The molecular docking results revealed that AKT1, NOS3, HSP90AA1, ESR1, PPARG, SRC, ALB, MMP2, MMP9, and IGF1 exhibited binding energies of −10.6, −10.2, −9.4, −9.0, −8.8, −8.3, −7.8, −7.6, −6.7, and −6.0 kcal/mol, respectively. Generally, a binding energy lower than −5.0 kcal/mol indicates favorable binding activity between the molecule and the target protein. In this case, all the core target proteins demonstrated binding energies below −5.0 kcal/mol, suggesting a strong interaction between hesperidin and the core targets. "
“Compared to the control group, the mRNA expression of ESR1, SRC, AKT1, and NOS3 in the model group cells showed a significant decrease. In contrast to the model group, the treatment group exhibited a significant upregulation of ESR1, SRC, AKT1, and NOS3 mRNA expression, with statistically significant differences observed as shown in Figure 9.”
“This present study conducted core target enrichment analysis mapping hesperidin, oxidative stress, and OP, revealing significant enrichment of the estrogen signaling pathway in the KEGG enrichment analysis. Estrogen can act on osteoblasts, osteoclasts, T cells, and bone cells to participate in bone metabolism and maintain bone formation [35]. Research has shown that the use of ERα and ERβ-specific drugs can regulate osteoblasts through estrogenic effects, thereby promoting bone formation [36]. The activation of the estrogen signaling pathway has the potential to impact the intercommunication between downstream transcription factors and the PI3K/AKT signaling pathway. The activation of the PI3K/AKT signaling pathway results in the upregulation of endothelial eNOS and the induction of elevated levels of NO, thereby stimulating angiogenesis, enhancing the local blood supply to bone tissue, and improving the microcirculatory structure.”
I think what I did was shock the estrogen signalling pathway WITHOUT actual estrogen and this created the perfect environment to restart the system but there was also a problem, shock to these systems can also invoke the wrath of the immune system. Whether you turn it on or off in an event, the same immune dysregulation process could possibly occur. In my case here the same one that amped up when it was shut down was the same one that initiated upon shocking it back on which can ironically cause sexual dysfunction.
So now I had the immune problem again with a lot of bad familiar feelings. But I remembered what intially got me out of that so I knew I had to take action quick here or I was gonna crash. So I remembered in the beginning activated charcoal helped a bunch so I downed a bunch of that to help clean up the immune mediator mess. It was well past noon so I just waited until it was my usually 4-5 PM coffee time and settled for 5 PM. Getting some coffee down simmered things down slightly but it was enough to buy me a little time. Right after that I had some cistus which also initially helped right around the time I first tried osha root (though I wouldn’t use this till yesterday) and followed it with green tea and got enough relief to rest at least. I seemed to have avoided the storm as the sensitivity of everything stayed high and I actually almost couldn’t stop getting morning wood and fantasizing as I was so tired from this all and kept failing to get up past my alarm going off. When I did I resumed the day as normal, I had burning eyes, kind of a hot head feeling, and a major headache with a bit of a sore throat thing going on but I was fine enough. So later I repeated the evening coffee and tea thing but only I took 1/4th of a capsule of osha root before the cistus and green tea, the nmoved the activated charcoal dose till after that. And it worked! I beat back the reaction even more, I was extremely tired and it was hard getting to my usual bed time but when I did I slept like a rock and sensitivity stayed up. Today I still have a little stingy eyes on and off with some tinnitus but it’s not severe. Also kind of fatigued from emergency bombing myself with all of that stuff every yesterday in rapid succession but doing pretty ok and I expect I’ll be ok again the next week.
The big question for me is why did lyme/coinfection herbals work so well? I have a theory in my case since I had immune dysfunction, POIS, and all sorts of other neurological problems before this. I even was taking lions mane when it happened but lions mane didn’t crash me till after this all went down. I had a host of dormant or barely in control infections and viruses including a history of mold toxicity too. My system was already extremely vulnerable. When I introduced saw palmetto what this did to the estrogen signalling pathway broke the camels back and essentially opened the gates of hell. First due to the shock the pathway itself and a bunch of androgen receptors and hormones themselves went under, so now the body really couldn’t defend itself from much of anything. Then the immune system in an emergency response activated the “brain burner” never ending cytokine storm scorched earth strategy which essentially just bombed everything in an autoimmune disaster taking out countless other signalling pathways and receptors with it leading to complete numbness and an over methylated genetic mess that looked like the final boss of post drug damage.
Hopefully when I recover from this I’ll actually be a recovery story but I’ll see how I do over the next few months hoping for no regressions. I don’t really besides one of lyme herbal have anything else I really even want to try, so for now I don’t really have much to do but just keep myself on my current supplement and herbal rotation while keeping myself otherwise healthy.
