My Saw Palmetto Nightmare

Just an update here. The L-carnitine should come in on Monday and I should be able to begin the 1000 mg every morning Monday-Friday with 2 weeks on and 2 weeks off starting on Tuesday. I tried a small amount of curcumin and it didn’t agree with my system in a way similar but a bit worse than tomato and this took me a step back but luckily wasn’t a full crash. I took some activated charcoal this morning as it seems like my digestive system didn’t appreciate it either and felt a little relief in my mental state so I know my gut is a major player in my situation too.

Been keeping at 2000 mcg methyl-b12 a day with no changed over the past couple days in my reaction to it. Since I have a slightly better functioning baseline with it there I will keep it there even though it makes me a bit more prone to depressive states which something else is definitely behind. I managed to feel a lot better emotionally having extra coffee but it’s very unstable and I experience a worse energy crash after so that is back down to my usual amount in the morning.

I’m quite sure though that in my case something is going wrong in a cycle related to the dopamine neurotransmitter systems, it may have roots in a weakened neurosteroid loop too. The one thing I do know is that my dick itself is fine, this is all downstream from my brain. From periods of high stress I know increases in anything that increase from stress don’t solve any issues and may make some worse BUT increasing my dose of methyl-b12 temporarily has the possibility of giving my brain enough of a boost to feel almost normal again but then it gets very unstable and that feeling can’t be sustained. Then once sensitization occurs I have a slightly better baseline but can’t achieve that revved up feeling without going higher which would not do me any good at this point. My digestive system in the past few days hasn’t been i the best shape either, may have even eaten something actually bad as days before that happened I ate at a restaurant and had some sushi and there is a definite involvement of my guts but I’m theorizing why is because my body has low reserves for dealing with anything going on in there and resources get used very quickly when it needs to give more energy to it. I feel much better in a lightly fasted state. When it’s using all of that for the guts it’s probably not using much for hormones and neurotransmitters for anything else in the body. I don’t think anyone has completely improved just targeting the guts though, its likely that it’s such an involvement in cases where the person is almost cured simply because everything effects what is going on in there in a loop and the microbiome is the most important in that. Also when I am actually horny and aroused everything works too, it seems the AR receptors themselves are fine but something is going wrong before anything even gets there, the dolichol deprivation thing I did before also proved this but the results weren’t consistent and because of the gut distress I got from it I had to stop.

edit - I actually looked up curcumin and depression/anhedonia (my reaction was more depressive but I lost some drive and sexuality) - This may be due to tanking DHT temporarily but I imagine since I can consume a lot of other 5ari foods with no issue that there is a specific pathway that’s very weak leading to this. Today as of now I’m feeling somewhat better some hours after activated charcoal, I also had an orgasm cause though the feeling was kind of muted I was also pretty horny under it indicating all that drive was till there but this effected some pathway that got messed involving DHT though clearly wasn’t strong enough to do permanent damage again thankfully (I am so glad when I did the test I had just a dash of it because this one had potential to seriously ruin me). Since other people are just fine with it though the damaged pathways leading to the same result may be different in different cases depending on a bunch of factors. No idea what it could be though but hopefully the carnitine cycle might give me a pointer.

No need to be sorry, buddy. Hoping I didn’t come across too harsh. You have enough going on, don’t want to add to it. My emphasis on the invisible magic elixir was more directed at others than you anyway; same with the percentage and semantic points. Not to say it is impossible for a panacea, just unlikely. Lowering expectations to curb disappointment is sometimes a good move.

I prefer white asparagus over green, at least from a taste standpoint. White also has more protodioscin than green, although less (no) chlorophyll. Sometimes unripe is more potent than ripe, such as the case of pineapple where the immature fruit has more bromelain than mature. On that note, saw palm fruits take awhile to ripen. I would guess peddlers harvest early to speed up business. Maybe they use ethylene oxide to hasten the ripening, common to bananas. Speaking of, I have many banana trees in my yard. Will never buy them again. They take awhile to ripen, but it is worth it. Meals wrapped in and cooked in the leaves is delicious.

Not sure which propolis brand to recommend. I think that’s what you are asking here. Saw palm, I hate that midget palm tree, does not grow in the northeast. It can live for centuries and is hard to kill. Most other palm trees die when the heart is harvested, but this pest will grow back somehow. I had a tree in my yard, so I could have messed myself up for free, but I was impatient so bought it. The store put a generic label on it, so I’m not sure which company is to blame. Because of the bottle specs, I have narrowed it down to 5 suspects. I could call each company and see if they make generics for the store, but I’m not sure I want to know or not. Wonder what others think. I wish I knew what the active ingredient in the plant is. Many sources cite beta-sitosterol, but this cannot be accurate. Avocados, olives, and nuts have beta-sitosterol yet never cause the same problems. I shrug my shoulders.

No point in trying k1; the body converts it in small amounts to the k2 version anyway. Might as well spare it the metabolic hassle. MK7 has a longer half-life than MK4.

I guess yohimbe could be good if you have low blood pressure because it raises it. I notice periwinkle does the opposite, lowers blood pressure, so it could be good if you have high blood pressure. The latter also makes me get colds/flus easier and cuts get infected more easily.

Speaking of black tea, you might like kombucha. Naturally fizzy, sweet and sour tea. Cheaper to brew your own.

Glad you mention lyme herbals. People on lyme disease forums are saying sida acuta caused them to have hair loss. One woman said she lost half her hair in 6 months. I find that interesting. I wonder if it is a pro-DHT action or some other mechanism. Once upon a time, I came across it and brewed around 4 to 8 cups of vegetable broth a day for around 4 days with the stems, leaves, roots, seeds, flowers before running out. Made my scalp unbearably itchy; no hair loss though. My DHT, at least in the scalp must be lower than average. As stated above, I never had hair loss and had the opposite problem. Of course, they only test the serum DHT, not the tissues. My testosterone must be lower than average too, considering it has always been impossible for me to build muscle. I have no pre or post saw labs, but I wonder what my stats are. I won’t bother because it would ultimately be money down the drain.

Pardon me while I take a moment to laugh like hell. I wish I could have seen the look on your face when tongkat assaulted your taste buds. Kava and kratom cannot hold a candle to the bitterness of tongkat. I actually acquired a taste for the muddy, earthy taste of kava the first time. I like to combine it with coconut water or coconut milk. I like kratom with the trio of beet juice, turmeric juice, and ginger juice. I never used the 2 ks pre-saw, only post-saw. Never had cravings or withdrawal symptoms. Most smoke shops near me don’t sell kava. I think most are money laundering fronts. Being on every street corner and shopping plaza, how do they all compete enough to stay in business? But anyway, intense bitter herbs like tongkat, gentian, wormwood, quassia, and etc put the body in cleansing and repair mode, so maybe you had detox like reactions, not sure.

Lost sight here. What kept your immune system in check? Ironic how we had health woes before saw, yet we have made better strides than the others here who said they never had a health woe in their life before. Sounds to me like you are staying the same in some aspects, slowly getting better in others, and you don’t seem to be worsening. People will probably read this and think saw victims have better odds of improvement, but it is impossible to know the real statistics. Not every story is on the internet.

Out of the mushrooms, cordyceps is my favorite of all time. I feel so motivated on it. Puts me in a get things done mood. Favorite herb? Tough question. Mushrooms are in the fungus kingdom with yeast and mold; they are not in the plant kingdom.

The yellow flowers and leaf shapes of damiana and st johns wort are so similar looking. The latter is probably bad sexually, but I could not tell because it was already nonexistent when I tried it. I recommend against using it. The former I think helped with ejaculation force. Muira puama was helpful for penile sensitivity. Speaking of, when I first went to my local herb shop for muira puama, translating to “potency wood” in Portuguese, the clerk lady decided to give me a hassle. I wanted to know if they had it, how much $, and what form. Instead, she wanted me to say, in earshot of others, “what it was for” before she would check the stock or make an order. That pissed me off, her knowing full well what it was for based off her smiling and tone. Obviously, I never did business there again. Trying to embarrass me, I won’t accept that. I always hated buying these herbs, more or less indirectly telling people I had problems, meaning people familiar with these herbs at least, those who would know what it was for without me having to say in front of other customers who may not. I no longer have problems, so I’d be happy to show her what it was for instead of tell her. Even though I do not need these things today, I have spent time harvesting them and money buying others, plus I acquired a taste for them, so I’m not going to throw these things out and waste them. I still use them in food and drink recipes for flavor. My st johns wort and ashwagandha are sitting collecting dust though because I read too many stories of sexual adversities. Damiana blends good with cherry juice; muira puama blends well with pomegranate juice; maca blends good with coffee/hot chocolate; tulsi (AKA holy basil) with blueberry juice, etc.

I bet this midget palm tree is the “forbidden fruit” spoken of in the bible. It caused me more harm than plants that can literally cause premature death. Once upon a time, I mistakenly harvested belladonna berries and lost the ability to urinate for 36 hours, then I fully recovered. Not only that, I felt amazing after. Do you like peaches? I brewed a hot drink from peach leaves not knowing all parts of the tree contain cyanide, except for the fruit. I had the classic cyanide symptoms, but I recovered fully and quickly. It messed with my breathing. It’s difficult to explain. I had no difficulty breathing, but it seemed the breaths were not as productive, as if I needed to take 5 breaths while intoxicated to equal 1 breath without the toxins influence. I noticed after that I could exercise longer without getting winded. These toxins actually made me healthier. What doesn’t kill is supposed to make stronger, as the saying goes. When I adversely reacted to saw palm in the beginning, everyone was so supportive. The most common response was “once it’s out of your system, you’ll return to normal.” They were half correct, but not the half that counts. I returned to normal after about 2 weeks, but it only lasted 3 or 4 days, then I crashed at freefall speed. 18 months or so later, I started letting people know I was still suffering. The most common response I received was “if it was capable of that, it would have been banned, blah, blah, blah, yadda, yadda, yadda”. That reminds me of a recurring theme in horror movies, the main character witnessing/experiencing something unfathomable. Nobody believes the main character and instead treats them as they’re crazy until they witness/experience it themselves then they apologize. Never thought I (we) would live it.

I would not touch milk thistle. I have never heard of it causing post syndromes, but I have heard of it causing a preexisting post syndrome to get worse. If you want to help your liver, why not eat liver? The organs are more nutritious and easier to digest than muscle meat, especially raw. I’ve eaten raw meat for 8 years and never got sick from it. Too much of the same organ can make you overdose on certain vitamins or minerals though, whether raw or cooked. Oddly, I feel off if I eat too much protein without enough carbs or fat to go with it, whether raw or cooked. I eat keto the majority of the time, feeling my best on it.

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You’re fine, with so many plants out there I’m sure something exists that may be able to flip all the right switches and turn things around for people. I mean my experience with osha root was one of those for me technically in getting to a new better baseline. In a single dose my skin and genital numbness was on its way out and I can’t explain what could have possibly happened there. Basically I just prepare for the worst and get pleasantly surprised when something either works out a little or simply doesn’t do much of anything. lol

I never see white asparagus around here so I’ve never tried it but I just been adding asparagus in amounts of 6 spears to anything I make, seems to be doing well in the background somewhat. I stay far away from fruit in general. the safest fruit for me is dragon fruit but generaly eating fruit makes me horribly fatigued and brain foggy. I can eat sugar with no problem too so I have no idea what it is about fruit but it’s just not good news for me. Appleas are the absolute worst offenders in that department, they make me feel like death.

Yeah that’s what I was asking. So saw palm is essentially just a mutant weed on steroids? I bought mine online and the supplement marketplace is a quality minefield in general. You never know what sketchy things are going on behind the scenes, I just stick with some brands I trust the most and watch out for all the additives in them since it seems like everyone these days just loads their supps up with tons of toxic filler just o keep the prices lower. I haven’t tried olives since this all happened but nuts and avocados don’t give any problems either and I’ve eaten both of them in copious amounts since. For me from experience the only thing that has come close in making me feel “saw palm-y” has been my recent experience with adding curcumin to some food but before this all happened I don’t remember it ever causing anything like this either. I’ll just stay far away from any indian food for now.

I don’t have any blood pressure issues, every time I got it checked recently it’s been in normal range. Isn’t kombucha a probiotic drink? I’m really careful around probiotics, I’ve felt like shit before on almost all of them I ever tried after I crashed. Even certain kinds of yogurt made me feel really bad. I’ll look into it though.

I haven’t tried Sida Acuta but I want to try, that one is a bit more scary though because people seem to have a lot more ugly kidney/urinary side affects from it and some people in reviews even said they got blood in their pee. EDIT - Never mind I was thinking of Chanca but still never tried sida acuta before and I want to give it a go. I’m sure a single light brew of it couldn’t do that much harm though to see how I react to it at a baseline first. I have a lot of lower body body muscle from walking so much throughout my entire life but don’t know what my ability to gain it is like now. No labs myself on my hormone levels, I been flying blind here and figured it would just be a waste of money for me anyways since even if I did know it’s not going to solve the issue and people have had hormone levels all over the place with this. When people crash it seems to have like a train going off the rails carrying a bunch of hormones spilling over effect where whatever was going through the system at the time just topples over and each case has a unique hormonal issue because of that.

It was a face of shock and unique disgust alright! lol I have also gotten a taste for kava too, I wanna try it again actually but I don’t know if I’d crash from it. Each type also tastes different too, the heavier kinds tend to be a lot more brutal in taste for some reason. I remember trying the heaviest kind available from Bula Kava House before and it tastes like rubber from hell, literally the only way I can describe that stuff. Nothing was able to get the taste out but time, even fruit juice did nothing. I think they’re definitely fronts too often because the same thing happens here. They all have about the same items so they clearly get all of their product from the same vendors, the bottom shelf kratom there is a no name generic brand from god knows where and sometimes the label on it just changes a little. Looking up the website on the product gives me very little information too. Same thing goes for all the legal cannabis related products. Once tried some delta 8 gummies from a couple shops before and they all had the same brand where the information on it lead to a almost blank placeholder website that was a dead end. Very little people go in often so they aren’t even selling this all enough to stay in business which just smells fishy because they close as quick as they open but in their place you’ll generally see a new one pop right up with a different name but it’s clearly the same place but just rebranded. There is only a couple smoke shops I trust around me to not be like this. I’ve tried worwood early on myself but it didn’t seem to do much to me at all, no side effects but no improvements either.

Avoiding food triggers and just getting the correct supplement lineup for myself. When SP devastated it more around the 4-5 month point post quitting where I was getting the waves of brain burning and became intolerant to methyl-b12 I needed I turned it all around with K2 but I have no idea what could have possibly happened there but it worked so I kept it in my supplement line up. That too though, there are much less victims of SP than finasteride but like you said there is probably a lot more cases out there where the person has no idea what is happening to them besides that at some point they took this stuff for hairloss and all of a sudden months later they are completely disabled with no explanation because they weren’t paying close attention to how they initially felt on it or they kept going with it/quit suddenly and all hell broke loose. I was a case technically a lot more severe than many users with a lot more variables too but I also did absolutely everything in my power to get better. I refused to live like that for the rest of my life and just kept ruthlessly forcing my way through and trying things. I didn’t have much to lose early on because if I got much worse in the very early days I would have been nearly dead. Others with more mild cases have a lot more risk calculating to do with what they try.

I might actually try that one, I haven’t tried it before unlike all of the others out there. I was on lions mane at the time I crashed too and crashed from it after taking it out for a while and reintroducing it. Not sure what happened there either but I’m staying away from the stuff now cause it’s also clearly bad news for me now too.

I have never heard of Muira Puama but I’ll look it up, I have full sensitivity though the remaining issue with me seems to be my body’s overall reflexive reaction to stimuli in general. What an asshole, I wouldn’t go back there myself if anyone wanted me to make a scene about what I’m buying. Everything around her tends to have self checkout and I always go for that. I hate buying all these herbs and supplements too, I am down hundreds because of all of this nonsense and the money going down the drain keeps flushing. This has been a horribly embarrassing situation for me too, I never felt more pathetic in my life. The anger I felt throughout this whole experience has been maddening, I wouldn’t even want to go outside because I was too ashamed to do anything outside and couldn’t feel joy anyways so what would be the point? Ashwaghanda was one of the first things I tried and it made everything in my situation at the time far worse but I also that early on when I tried it was so messed up that remembering my own name was difficult.

Yes that’s the thing too, I would have been happier if I had accidentally eaten poison ivy salad or something. How does a single plant even cause this much damage? If I ate the most poison mushroom in the forest at least it would have the mercy of letting my horrible death last a day instead of this hell. I can’t say I ever accidentally consumed any other toxic plants before by accident. I’ll sometimes pick mushrooms but only the most easily identifiable to me that grow around here like puff balls, oysters, or chicken of the woods. I think that period of weeks was what I had too in between my time of taking it and abruptly stopping. I still was having the mental issues I developed and the lack of response to anything stimulating but it took a period of some weeks before things got really bad. I largely hid it from everyone but one person because I was with them on the days where I began my descent into hell, I didn’t really have any visible signs anything was wrong besides dropping more weight. We were on a camping trip and it was the second to last day we were there when I started getting seriously ill with the anhedonia, numbness, neuropathy, weakness, head pressure, and waves of dizziness/vertigo. We went home and real nightmare had just begun. Like thinking back I can’t even put myself back into the head space I was in, if I did nothing all day right now but try to make myself as sad as humanly possible I wouldn’t be able to go that low. The sickest I’ve ever been with the flu for example doesn’t even hold a candle what I mentally experienced, it was mind bending darkness. You know how I describe it best? You know those paranormal investigation shows? Imagine the scariest one you ever seen and imagine you are stuck on the set of it 24/7, that’s what the state of mind was like. The entire planet had become America’s most haunted. Really taught me how fragile we really are, all it takes is messing up one crucial automatic cycle in your body and the entire system collapses in ways you never thought before possible.

I decided against it you’re right it’s too risky for us even though it has great benefits for the liver. I thought about actually eating liver, not sure how I’d respond to it as I have very bad reactions to meat from land animals though that I’ll never get to the bottom of. Sefood is just fine though. My fat and protine I get from peanuts and chia seeds I have in the morning, I make my own peanut butter. It’s the best I can do for what my digestive system can handle.

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Since it came in yesterday I tried the ALCAR today. after doing a bunch of internet combing for experiences with it I decided to go with 500 mg instead of 1000 mg. I actually feel a bit more calm minded with this stuff and it does make my penile functioning slightly less responsive actually actually. No loss of functioning or shrinkage though, I can deal with this if these side effects stay stable or improve. No tiredness though, it’s just a mental calm feeling that I can retain my baseline energy with. Not worried though because no one has had any bounce back issues with this from looking around online, they stop and after 1-3 days their side effect free. Some people get worse and then after their time on it feel even better so there’s that too. All in all ALCAR reactions seem to be a pretty variable bubble, guess it just depends on what you have going on in your body under the hood.

Found this study on it though it also involved methyl-folate which I’m not currently taking. Here just like the cycle the length of time on was 14 days, wonder if this one is where they got the idea to do this from.

Edit - Yeah this stuff definitely makes me a bit more lethargic, brain foggy, and winded easily, doesn’t entirely agree with my digestive system either. I think I’ll be able to push through 2 weeks but I’m definitely going to be laying low during them and mostly resting if I’m gonna feel like this on this stuff. Can go to work and everything but it just makes me feel pretty weird.

Edit 5/7 - Unfortunately I couldn’t take the side effects as they only got worse but are easing off today as I’m typing this as the hours pass, this stuff was unfortunately not for me. Right now I’m pretty headachy, still quite winded/fatigued, digestive system isn’t happy, and really groggy/irritable. As it wears off it turns into a weird part stimulated feeling that isn’t comfortable at all. Thankfully didn’t lose any progress despite these side effects though, like others said you seem to just bounce back from this stuff in likely 1-3 days. Half life I looked up is also ridiculous at 28-30 something hours.Good thing I don’t work today or tomorrow or this would have gotten a lot more ugly.

Day 3 off from my horrible alcar reaction, much of today I wasn’t feeling so hot but appeared to have been bouncing back. Less libido but nothing major down besides somewhat harder to get it going. I think I may be on to something here though it’s possibly strictly for my case and others very similar.

I did more digging on adverse reactions for couple days and came across what I think is a piece of my puzzle. It has to do with the gut microbiome, choline, and TMAO. Someone recommended raw garlic which I thought was the dumbest idea in the world at first as I add copious amounts of garlic to my cooked food all the time and actually have during the past couple days dealing with this BS. But I had some black garlic paste and ate about half a teaspoon raw. To my amazement I started getting significant relief almost instantly. The digestive swelling started going down, my senses felt sharper, my dick felt more connected. There really must be something to that one but it was black garlic that did this and I’m not sure if it was the allicin specifically so I ordered a 1000 mg allicin supplement to try every day. Until then I’m going to have half a teapoon of black garlic paste every morning. I also have coq10 100 mg on the back burner to try but first I want to see where this garlic thing goes first.

This could be behind my reaction to land meat too, though it’s kind of strange since I tolerate seafood just fine. It’s also definitely behind my reaction to choline supplementation which is very close to how the alcar fealt in me, same with my reaction to red meat specifically which is the worst though meat typically doesn’t give me intestinal bloating as bad as the alcar did.

edit - The garlic capsules should get here later today so I’ll to try them tomorrow morning.

Even if so, I can still picture the masses taking overdoses and asking why they are getting worse instead of better, and those who take too little and say it doesn’t work, and those who do not take it long enough. Heck, I can picture some going back on the very thing that caused their syndrome in the first pace if they recovered. I have actually seen that. Moreover, pharma has no interest in curing people. A cure is a 1-time transaction. Temporarily masking the symptoms with a continuous supply of drugs is repeat business. Come on, those who talk about gene manipulation. Want a fix from pharma? Expect it to be a pill, cream, or shot as most their products are. Gene therapy will likely be approved only for life threatening diseases such as cancer, at least at first.

Not all that familiar with osha, just that it is an immune booster along with goldeseal and echinacea. Rather than copy and paste or repost, here is a hyperlink of my experience with these 2. I'm convinced it's autoimmunity

I have only seen white asparagus in glass jars on the canned food aisles on the shelves next to okra, olives, banana peppers, etc. Never saw fresh on the produce aisle. There is another variety of asparagus called shatavari. I take it you refer to the sweet fruits rather than oily fruits such as avocados. Not to be the semantics police, but the pod that holds the seed is the fruit of a plant. This makes okra a fruit technically. This makes avocados as much a fruit as peaches. It really depends what part of the plant we are referring. The red berries that grow on the asparagus plant are technically fruits. Asparagus can be a vegetable or a fruit. Then again, the berries of saw palm are fruits, oily ones at that. Red berries also grow on the ashwagandha plant, but nobody sells or consumes those for I don’t know why.

Wish I could recommend a propolis brand. I used the solid resin pieces with a generic label, so I’m not sure the brand. I prefer to make a liquid tincture from it and burn the leftover resin as a sort of incense. I don’t get clear answers from companies whether it is sourced from a region where that midget palm grows, so I abstain. There is a company in New York who doesn’t filter their honey leaving in the product the pollen, royal jelly, and propolis - very tasty. Don’t want to openly name the brand for reasons a plenty. I prefer to advocate sourcing supplements for free over giving the industries money. You and I were affected by the supplement industry while most the others were affected by the drug industry. It pains me utterly to the core to give money to an industry who caused major problems for me. That palm tree has the cons of trees and the cons of weeds. The only good thing is it won’t get so tall that a branch would be heavy enough to damage property or person. It has some sharp thorns though. Its only good use is as fire tinder, except a bit scared to inhale the smoke. Anyway, I prefer to harvest or grow my own supplement material. If not possible, I go for whole or cut material. Powders and liquid can be mixed with filler easier than whole or even cut pieces. You know what you get when you produce it yourself. The long list of additives on the labels makes me cringe. I expect you know these things already, but the masses may not. They only have to list ingredients directly added to the final product. They don’t have to list “processing aids”. Lets say they use lubricating oils on the machinery, it does not get on the label. Importantly, 1 thing to be very weary is products that say “proprietary blend”. Trade secret laws protect that information except for the top allergens. This means it could include saw palmetto or almost anything. Speaking of Indian cuisine and the likes, fenugreek makes me feel off by itself, but not in the context of curry blends. I have used curry seasoning to flavor dishes for years and years pre-saw, no problems.

I don’t trust most medical offices to calibrate the pressures cuffs correctly. They have an interest to make it seem higher to prescribe more drugs, make more money. When I check it at home, a store, a pharmacy even, it always much lower than a doctors office. I prefer water kefir over kombucha, and milk kefir over yogurt anyway. My favorite probiotics are from home-fermented meats. The stench and taste are foul, but mighty powerful.

It irks me that I cannot find any details behind the sida acuta hair loss. Ephedra causes hair loss too, except that is not a DHT pathway. Chemo also causes hair loss. If you try, keep me posted. I’m inclined to suspect sida acts on DHT pathways because it made my scalp itch, and my scalp never itched. It goes to show how desperate you are to be you again that you don’t care about the risk of hair loss. Speaking of labs, I never even saw a doctor for saw. I can see it going this way based off past unrelated experiences:

Kava has a natural creamy consistency. I do not use the powder; I use the cut and sifted root, boiled in water and filtered. I only used 3 brands without knowing whether they were heady or heavy. I will tell you the brands privately. I only used 1 brand of kratom. Likewise, I used the cut and sifted leaves; maeng da red, green, and white, preferring red. I shall name the brand discreetly.

It would be nice to get a blood, tissue, urine, and hair test of what vitamins, minerals are high or low. It will be more telling than just 1 route. It would be nice to check all these parameters with hormones and etc too. Alas, they can do it, but they don’t because, because, because, because of the wonderful things they do (n’t). I’m sure you get the reference. It would be expensive anyway. Nonetheless, good on you for taking action. I shudder to think how awful I would have gotten if I hadn’t. I can hear the masses now: “Donate to research” and rolling their eyes. I get it, except the research is on finasteride, not saw palm. Early on in my journey, I figured even if a treatment did eventually arise, it would be expensive, not given out for free as most think, and it would only be offered to those who used finasteride, not those who took saw, ssris, or accutane.

Muira puama and damiana taste very similar, except the former is woody tasting and the latter is leafy tasting. They must have similar active chemicals. Wild tribulus leaves and aparagus taste similar; they both contain protodioscin. But yeah, that asshole clerk did not ask other customers in line ahead of me “what’s it for” or say “you have to tell me first”. If she wound up suffering from this or a similar disease, I would not feel bad for her. I wonder if she would have asked “what for” if I was looking for horny goat weed. She is ugly inside and outside. Once upon a time, I ordered horny goat weed along with groceries online through a delivery service, and the young pretty lady delivering did not comment. I felt so embarrassed and pathetic. I wonder what she thought. Even though I have won against the disease and can live a normal life, I still feel the sting of shame when recounting these embarrassing experiences. I guess that is 1 thing I have not recovered from at all.

I know of someone who ate an angel trumpet flower, passed out behind a dumspter, spent a few days in the hospital, and recovered as if nothing ever happened. She even talks about doing it again from time to time. You and I would not say that about saw. I also know of someone who had renal and liver failure after a toxic mushroom, was put on a transplant waiting list, and recovered as if nothing ever happened. Funny thing is he won’t even eat mushrooms from stores or restaurants now. Really, what this palm tree did to you and I are horrors that not even movie or cartoons writers could think up. “Fact is stranger than fiction”, as the saying goes.

What about fish liver? I enjoy canned cod liver; cannot find it fresh. I prefer a specific brand because it has more pieces and less oil than other brands. I prefer almond, pistachio, walnut, hazelnut, and cashew butter over peanut butter, taste-wise. Macadamia is my fave. Peanut is the cheapest though. I know people have allergic reactions to peanuts and die, but I firmly believe there is something demonic about saw palm. People can have allergic reactions to nearly anything, but how many plants are capable of what saw is? 100 years ago, fin, accu, etc did not exist, but saw palm existed long before native Americans. I imagine ancient people gave it to their prisoners and enemies. Speaking of, most nuts are seasonal and most fruits are seasonal. I believe there is something about seasonal eating. Variety, for 1 thing. I laugh at those who have say milk and cheerios for breakfast and then a grilled cheese for lunch is variety. It is the same thing. The cereal and bread are both made with wheat, and the milk and cheese is both dairy. They are basically eating the same thing.

https://www.webmd.com/vitamins/ai/ingredientmono-1026/l-carnitine

I wonder if the reverse is true. Would valproic acid help carnitine toxicity? Valproic acid and valeric acid found in the valerian plant are structurally similar.

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I don’t even want to look at how much money I have dumped into this looking to simply get better is ridiculous. At this rate your right I’m not expecting one anymore considering there’s no money in curing anything. Everything in the beginning was a huge blur but I don’t think anything I tried earlier on was one. I remember trying stinging nettle thinking I had to push in the direction of immune suppression and it temporarily made some things better like the neuropathy and it gave me more clarity of mind, but I felt far worse emotionally and everything else got worse with it.My immune system the entire time though was definitely doing some really funky stuff and the immune system is also one of the most complex systems in the body so it’s never as simple as just suppress it or activate it. You could have things in it that are over active and things that are under active at the same time.

Yeah that’s what I meant, I often forget avocado is a fruit too which I have no issues with and been eating the entire time. I’m talking about sweet fruits.

I get it, I’ll just research on my own but I’m just fine with the propolis supplement I got right now. I hate giving all these companies money too for supplements, I wish I could just live without them but unfortunately I’m too sick to do so. If I stopped I wouldn’t be able to live at all, my body has just been too damaged and this saw palmetto disaster was what really sealed the deal though I do know that despite some speed bumps here and there I am recovering. Though before this I had mold toxicity from an old home and was born with a lot issues too undiagnosed. Got sick easily and frequently, never ending digestive problems, horrible frequent viral infections, food sensitivities, ect-. It all as I got older just got worse and peaked in my mid 20’s with multiple chemical sensitivity and a ton of neurological issues. I’m just a mess and largely focus on quality of life. Don’t even get me started on supplement labels, ordering anything is like walking through a minefield. It’s especially infuriating when you KNOW it can do without a lot of those ingredients as fillers for something just as neutral no one will react to and like you said some things they don’t need to list at all. Another giant pet peeve of mine is not about additive/fillers though but when one looks clean enough BUT you read the label and it has some completely random herbal BS no one asked for in it that isn’t listed on the front of the bottle. How is that even legal? I can’t say I ever tried fenugreek on its own but I don’t have a reason to and don’t even know how you’d cook with it. I used to love Indian food before this but I just can’t risk it right now, maybe in a couple years I’ll try again way out but for now I’m staying away.

there is so many ways to hair loss and little hair regrowth, such is aging I guess. At this pint I don’t even care anymore and would prefer to be completely bald but the curse of that is that keeping my head completely bald actually takes a lot of work itself because of how fast hair starts to grow up there and create that dark covering showing the dreaded rolled back hairline (probably my biggest insecurity looks wise, it makes my forehead look freaking massive ewwww). On the funny doctor dialog that represents how it goes for most people well because lets be honest no one’s health issues are so simple that they’ve ever been resolved in one go. So many symptoms from so many things over lap and even the “healthy one’s” easily go down the med and psychological gaslighting rabbit hole. Some people even take the bait and get on SSRI’s for example flung around like candy, get horrible side effects mentally and physically they don’t connect the dots between and it just continues. It’s just complete absurdity and it’s all done because it turns single people into muli thousand dollar cash cows a piece.

I wish I could get all of those done but I also don’t have infinite money and like I said I am just blowing money from my savings left and right finding out what is going on with what in my body with everything I try. Luckily things are starting to calm down and there isn’t much out there for me to buy I have a burning desire to give a shot. Recently things have been hit or miss with the money blowing but I’ve made some good progress so I’m satisfied despite the speed bumps. That too, a complete cure for something might be very difficult to get because it’s probably going to be extremely costly and you bet they’re gonna make you jump through a million hoops to get it. I’m just not counting on it, the whole “waiting for soemone to save me” thing in life has never worked out wherever I try to apply it. In fact every time I let people take my fate into their hands I’ve gotten into even worse trouble in life.

I work in retail myself so I know how to treat people, like I would myself in a store. I don’t care what anyone is buying, I’m not even thinking anything most of the time. Sometimes if someone is buying lube or condoms I’ll have a little internal “looks like someone’s having a little fun later” joke to myself but I don’t tell them anything. I ring it up, tell them to have a nice day, and we all move on with our lives. From most of our perspectives she probably didn’t think a thing of it it besides a passing “hmm interesting” comment in her head. That’s it, normal mentally healthy people just don’t care to be so petty. I’m still recovering from that now, Granted trauma from adult life is easier than childhood because your brain was already fully aware and had a lot more solidified pathways before it happened but this has left a horrible mark on my psyche. Right now I’m in between trialing some last supplements, bouncing back, getting on a solid cycle with a slightly improved stack for myself, and getting back into everything else in my life I completely dropped because this was all I could focus on. My life has literally been nothing for months on end of work and suffering at home living like a 90 year old. Every day I’m working through a harder day whether it be from a wave of symptoms or a not so great reaction to a new supplement I tried I always catch myself just playing slots online all day, only thinking about what is for dinner otherwise after forcing myself out to the grocery looking and feeling like a randomized sims character who’s never seen human society in a hundred years, and then being like “Oh so this is why really old people are like that”. lol It’s probably gonna be another couple of months before I’m feeling more human and integrated in everything again.

I couldn’t even imagine this experience myself, it’s just too weird. An alien disease that turns your genitals into a tiny nonfunctional stump, deletes your sexuality, deletes your emotions besides a sense of vague constant terror that you are forced to experience 24/7, removes all skin sensation, removes your ability to feel all drugs, wastes away your body till you are a skeleton, and causes either hypersomnia or insomnia. If someone before this told me that this is what they are going through I wouldn’t know what to say to them because my brain wouldn’t be able to wrap itself around how all that can even be possible.

I’ve never had fish liver before but I’d be willing to try, I can’t say I’ve ever even seen it around before. PEanuts are just the cheapest, I like other nut butters to but the price of nuts are off the charts these days. Everytime I need to restock even Aldi’s now shocks me at the register. To think that grocery prices can only get worse too, it’s not looking good. There has to be and now I feel like going down some internet rabbit hole on the topic.

I’m recovering just fine from it, I’ve bounced back well so no need to worry about it or try more there.


On what i tried today things also didn’t go great but it wasn’t a disaster like carnitine. coq10 just gave me a wired uncomfortable feeling with more head tension, mood isn’t all there but I’ll make it. No effect on anything sexuality related at all. Just a strange reaction, stuff isn’t for me. Moving on. Luckily I have a few days off ahead to just relax and let it all out of my system. Took some activated charcoal before to help the process out a bit and just gonna sit back and lay low today and tomorrow.

I am keeping the black garlic every morning, the allicin supplement itself was a bit much for me and made me feel pretty speedy and more mentally unstable. Could have been just too high of a dose but with black garlic doing the job well enough there’s no reason for me to take the allicin supplement. I’ll keep it on hand though.

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Update post trying that dose of coq10 a couple mornings ago, the negative sidde effects are dying down, still feel kind of blah and a bit depressed today but the good news is I think this brought my reactive libido back fully because it is currently completely normal now in that department, I’ll see over the course of the next few days if this fades as more of the last dose of coq10 leaves my system (pretty long half life at 30+ hours). Only other thing I have been doing is continuing to eat a small amount of raw black garlic paste every morning and I have eaten a lot more seafood than normally in the past week cause I went out a couple times and had some plus making it once myself, don’t know if the nutrients from eating a lot of that played a role in kick starting something at the time of taking the black garlic and dose of coq10 there. Like I said I’ll just monitor myself over the next few days and see how things roll out from here. I’m also probably going to be dinner fasting for a couple days too because speaking of food I have had way too much of it in the past few days.

edit - I’m going to give irish sea moss capsules a go in the near future. Dug around multiple forums, read reviews, dug through reddit. Negatives seem to be few and far between. Most people appear to get increased energy, rest, and concentration. Some said it benefitted their immune system. One person in the reviews said it made them depressed but stopped when they stopped taking it. Some women in a topic on reddit said it made their periods heavier whatever that implies about its mechanisms. Seems pretty low risk and something there is no data in this area on, I’ll be the lab rat.

edit 5/13 - The negative side effects from the coq10 wore off a lot more over night, not completely yet but on my way out. Woke up much more horny today and sexually responsive. I had a couple orgasms before and they were extremely pleasurable and normal. My system feels a lot more sensitive and reactive to things in general now. Only negative is that as I made more progress with whatever this did my POIS has also returned and my libido stays higher even after a couple orgasms. Luckily I have today and tomorrow off to relax here and ride more of this out. There could not have been a worse time for my system to get this sensitive again though because I already have skin sensitivity issues and related neurological dysfunction when I can’t process skin sensation consistently/comfortably and the sun is warm but breeze is chilling outside. I hate this in between period between Summer and Spring and how it drags on forever where I live. Went for a walk anyways today thinking it would be good for me and the only thing it did on top of the POIS induced neurological dysfunction is make my nervous system feel like it was doing the electric eel. I gotta take it easy for a while now but I have major cabin fever, not good for me mentally.

Feel a bit off still today but better than yesterday, also noticed since my coq10 reaction I had a real nasty taste in the back of my throat with extra nasal drip that is easing up to whatever that means. I don’t even know how to describe it besides musty, infection-y, and gross. A little head/eye pressure on and off, nothing as severe as it was. Sexual reactivity has stayed where it was though. I got the Irish Sea Moss supplement in (the one from Doublewood) and to my surprise it has made life a lot more bearable today, a little more energy and some extra sensory clarity. This is probably one of the best things I’ve added to my stack in a while so far, it definitely works well on some kind of inflammatory process going on in me. So far no side effects I’ve noticed.

As much money as I have burned, I have also saved a lot of money too, having harvested vast amounts of plants for free. Another way to save is writing and calling companies. There is no shortage of valid complaints to voice. They often send me coupons or replacements. Another way is scavenging, what is called “dumpster diving”. Since you mention it, I salvaged hundreds of dollars worth of peanut and almond butter from a local Aldis, unopened. I do not care if there is a dent in the jar or it is out of date. I disregard the dates; they do not want you stocking up when it is on sale and not buying anymore for awhile; they want you to throw it out and buy more. A dent or torn label does not impact the quality.

Glad you mentioned the delicate immune balance aspect. An under-active immune system opens you up to infection and/or cancer. An overactive immune system opens you up to autoimmunity and/or allergies. In a sense, autoimmunity and cancer are polar opposites. The former is when the immune system attacks healthy cells while the latter is when the immune system allows corrupted cells to replicate. Having 1 extreme imbalance does not protect you against the other. You can have cancer in 1 part of the body and autoimmunity in another part.

There is so much here I agree with that I would just turn it into an echo chamber if I get started. Just know I’m with you all the way. Not to imply there is anything wrong with an echo chamber; there isn’t.

I think hair is one of the least precious parts. The body expends so many resources to growing hair when it could go to organs and bones instead. Not to say hair is worthless, but the body sure has odd priorities if you ask me.

A walk-in clinic wanted to test testosterone in 2014, except I never went back. He wanted to “discover the source of anxiety”. I was thinking, fool, I have a large growth, later found out it was a varicocele. Most people would be somewhat anxious. He wanted to give me an ssri, thus I never returned, because I knew of the dangers. The anxiety cleared once I found out it was not cancer or worse. It was almost magical, let me tell you. He had 2 claims filed against him for touching female patients inappropriately. He was also arrested for domestic violence against his wife. Never would have went to him had I known all that. I also unknowingly went to a dentist who killed a patient of hers via an overdose. Not only did the victim have more sedative in his system than she was licensed to possess, local law dictates vitals must be monitored every 5 minutes after a sedative is administered, and she did not do that. In my local region, malpractice is public record. I wish I knew that before selecting medical providers. Both of them should be disbarred from practicing. Countless drugs and supplements should likewise be banned, but “ethics”.

Funny, I never needed lube. I used a condom only 1 time and swore I would never do it again.

I might lose my job along with everyone else on the roster. A big event is on the horizon. If all goes well, we stay; if not, we’ll be on our way. Time shall tell.

Talk more later. I’m tired, a side effect of working too much.

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Well I been saving too, haven’t been burning all of it but it’s been slower. As long as the numbers are at least going up I’m happy. I’ve never thought of doing that before to get free coupons or whatever they can offer me, if it’s just a general coupon for their brand then I’m sure I can find something I already take by them. Do they give you discounts on all the dented and out of date containers? I’ll take them too but I never heard of anyone taking stuff like that off their hands, do you just ask a manager? If it’s dry food it almost never goes bad and if there’s no mold on it then whatever. I make my own peanut butter from just unsalted peanuts.

Really I didn’t know that cancer and autoimmunity can’t coexist in the body at the same time. I have so many sensitivities environmentally that I can really only do a lot of avoiding to keep my immune system under control. For me under active appears to feel even worse especially post crash. Everything that generally calms it down has produced the worst crashes for me, quercetin which helped me a bit before all of this with other issues can ruin me now.

I luckily haven’t or don’t think I ever went to any doctors that were like that but it utterly amazing that those people actually get and keep jobs meanwhile I’m trying to get off my sinking ship currently but getting 0 call backs at all. Really shows that connections and social manipulation are what actually gets you a job these days. I just instinctively knew psyche meds were a bad idea but I knew the source of my life long mental issues besides just trauma were biological. Just increasing serotonin isn’t gonna do anything for me. I grew up very dysfunctional with symptoms of severe autism and schizophrenia which I much later in life got slapped with a diagnosis for schizoaffective but I knew this wasn’t just a part of an organ brain disorder entirely. I knew because I have had moments of clarity before, moments of being almost neurotypical and in those magica;l times it’s like some autoimmune inflammatory response runs out of steam temporarily and my brain just works rather normally and I have no issues socializing, no more vocal problems, and no more general anxiety, or crippling self awareness of my own body. I still can’t entirely pinpoint what triggers these random magical days of full functionality, I can only seem to find what makes everything worse to get to a better baseline.

Same with my job, the place appears on the surface to be doing ok but the company itself is really sinking, our place survived more recent cuts and right now we’re generally just hoping we’re going to be one of the places that is on the chopping block last since eventually we’re all going under. It’s scary because it feels like no one wants my labor, I’ve applied to everywhere and got one interview that went nowhere and a single virtual interview from Target (you know I’m getting desperate when I apply here) that I requested accommodation for an in person interview at because I can’t mentally handle that dystopian Hirevue nonsense but got denied. Now it seems a lot of places are doing this Hirevue thing and I don’t know what to do, I can’t even get in contact with a real person these days. When a place gives me a chance they tend to keep me because I do a great job but I just can’t get my foot in the door at all anymore it seems. I’d hate to be cornered into going for disability because I know I can work even though I have limitations. I haven’t had to look for another job since around 2016 so I had no idea how bad the job market and conditions in it were these days, I got quite the culture shock recently alright. It could also be that I’m still at my current one and they want a total open schedule with an employee which is netting me less responses too so I mind as well just stay where I am till the ship sinks and then start applying again as I know at least by that point all my current applications will have expired.

The Irish Sea Moss supplement is still going well for me so far, so I’m going to keep this in the stack for a while and hope nothing goes south with it. I’m also considering trying Muira Puama low dose (the solaray brand is only 300 mg), I also looked into Catuaba the other day but it appears to have dopamine and some kinda of serotonin reuptake inhibition properties and that’s something I don’t really want to mess with. There’s also been reports online of consistent use of it no longer working after a while too and I don’t want to try anything with an increased risk for sensitization either with the dopamine/serotonin systems. I haven’t stumbled across that happening with Muira Puama and the reports of it making people run down feeling were all over 400 mg doses so I think that is my next best bet. I think for now I’m going to stay where I am with this stack though and see how things play out from here.

–Best Buy closed almost 20 locations across the US
–CVS is in the process of closing up to 900 locations
–Foot Locker is planning to shut 400 stores
–Family Dollar plans to close 600 stores
–Red Lobster closing 100 units
–Applebee’s closing 50 units

It’s everywhere, @Taw and @Dysfunkion. Because the economy is booming, you know! (This is just a small sample of planned closings!)
I hope you both escape these cuts! Jim

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I actually just got back from work, holding on for dear life and trying to keep the faith. I have savings to float on for a while as I apply everywhere again if the current one goes under (I have to let my previous failed applications expire first to resend, it’s all I have left to do because I have literally ran out of places to apply) which I imagine might happen if we don’t make it at end of this year. Dealing with that while dealing with this has been nothing short of hellish. On gray days like this the threatening uncertainty of the situation really drags you under, the air at my workplace is really tense and everyone is miserable.

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Hi Dysfunkion, thanks for the extraordinarily detailed post, was a good read.
Happy you’ve seen some mega improvements, lots of people with skin numbness / lack of sensation mention ALA as an option, although less K2.
I might PM you if I decide to supplement for this as it seems to be a rare symptom.

Has your head inflammation gone? Whenever I turn my head it feels like my neck is holding up my head on water, I can hear the fluid as the neck turns. It’s not necessarily pressure or pain just feels completely inflamed and dysfunctional.
I have the popping ear inflammation so its definitely messed up there.

I think when I said “dumpster diving, scavenging, and salvaging”, it went over your head. To be blunt, I would go behind the stores, climb in the dumpster, and sort the goods from the refuse, and take the goodies out of the dumpster as I climb out. I doubt a manager would green-light it because “liability, ethics, it looks bad, customers see it, it is a business to make money” blah, blah, yadda, yadda. If anything, asking them is more likely to make them sabotage the goods before throwing them away. I can picture them being afraid of fraudulent returns. I’m sure some of the dented and expired items go to food banks and other charities so they can get a tax write-off, but a good portion goes to the garbage. I only have experience with regular dumpsters, not the mechanical compacter sorts. Steer clear of the latter. And when I say call or write the companies, I mean the manufacturers, farms, factories, etc who actually make the products, not the stores. Don’t explicitly ask for coupons outright. PS: I found covid tests and blood pressure devices yesterday from a pharmacy I will not name. You work in retail, so I’m sure you know a lot of good items get thrown out. I could picture them firing you for helping yourself to the bounties though.

You can have both cancer and autoimmunity, just not the same site. Kind of hard for cancer cells or even healthy cells to function where there is constant immune attacks. Also kind of hard for the immune system to attack healthy cells by mistake where it is letting corrupted cells grow unchecked. Surprise surprise, the immune system is supposed to attack cancer cells, not healthy cells. Autoimmunity and cancer are colossal failures of the opposite extremes.

It was a tad funny but not funny how after I landed this job, a number of the others places I applied to started contacting me to see if I was “still interested”. I did not know whether I should stay put or cross over. I wrestle with that choice now. Will not confirm nor deny whether my workplace is on the list Wildman posted or not, but we passed the health department inspection. Not sure how much I am allowed to disclose, but there was a recent event and there will be another within weeks to a month or two, and the corporation will decide whether we are “worthy” to stay or not. I’d hate to apply and get hired somewhere worse, especially if this job will endure and the new one go under. It is easier to get a new job when you already have a job than when you don’t; employers look favorably upon the former and down on the latter. I shrug!

Irish moss has mucilage, as does marshmallow, licorice, slippery elm, asparagus, okra, aloe. Solaray is overpriced with 300 milligrams of muira puama for 12 dollars is major puny. I can get a pound of bulk powder for less than 10 dollars elsewhere. You can make hundreds of capsules for fractions of the cost. I averaged about 30 grams of muira puama, not milligrams. People wonder why they don’t feel anything. Take enough of something, you will feel something. It could be good, bad, both, or neutral, and may or may not be what you want or expect, but you will feel something. Obviously, it will cost more money as you run out sooner. Long before this, I consumed an entire spice bottle full of parsley and could not stop urinating buckets every 5 minutes for several hours. Nutmeg can give you a hallucinogenic buzz if you eat the entire jar. You would be surprised. In some cases, the dose response curve is flat, such as 500 micrograms of dutasteride and 5 milligrams. The FDA does not regulate herbs, so we have no idea what is a high or low dose, the likes of which likely varies person to person. I suspect most herbs are deliberately under-dosed to protect companies from liability. I believe slippery elm reversed my post clindamycin syndrome on its own. I believe catching it and acting early is 1 of the cornerstones. Of course, I was taking 56 grams of slippery elm divided twice a day, not those measly 500 milligram capsules - big difference. A big con with capsules is you can’t taste the herb. Tasting it activates part of the response; digestion begins in the mouth, not the stomach. I open capsules and pour them out, and I chew up tablets.

I start my morning with a GABA antagonist and end my evening with a GABA agonist.

GABA agonists: Alcohol, Allopregnanolone, Ashwagandha, Benzos, GHB (Gamma-Hydroxy-Butyrate), Hops, Kava, Magnolia, most ketone bodies, Passionflower, Valerian, and Valproate/Valproic acid.

GABA antagonists: Ciprofloxacin, Ginkgo Biloba, Juniper, Kudzu, Muira Puama, Sage, and Wormwood. Interestingly, Kudzu has reviews all over Google for helping alcohol addicts quit drinking. Thujone is the active chemical in Juniper, Sage, and Wormwood. I find that surprising because thujone is a ketone, and ketones are usually GABA agonists. PS: Wormwood is as bitter as tongkat.

Valeric acid, found in Valerian, has a similar chemical structure to Valproate/Valproic acid, the active ingredient in depakote. Observe:

https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Aleksei-Rakitin/publication/318162464/figure/fig1/AS:613877502971904@1523371210004/Structure-of-valproic-valeric-and-g-aminobutyric-acid.png

The latter is probably just a lab-modified version of the former. I have used Valerian, but I never used Valproate/Valproic acid.

@Taw @Dysfunkion

Personal experience:
My wife has lung cancer. When found, It was far enough along that surgery and radiation were not options. The Dr discussed both chemo and immunotherapy options, and recommended the immunotherapy.

The immunotherapy drug she takes is Opdivo, every 4 weeks in an IV. The drug prompts the body’s own immune system to fight the cancer.

Result? The cancerous nodes in her lungs have shrunken to near-nothing…but are not gone. Drs say if she quits the meds, the cancer could (and probably would) regrow. It has been 4 years now and as I say, “if you didn’t know she was sick, you wouldn’t guess she was sick.”

Only regret? The initial dosage was a combo of Opdivo and Yervoy, and in its 3 months of use, her adrenal, thyroid and pituitary glands were damaged. The pituitary doubled in size and eventually returned to near normal. Her thyroid went into hypothyroidism and she now must take levothyroxine. Her adrenal damage is requiring daily steroids. Both glands were normal before immunotherapy. But, she’s still with me and feeling good! Thank God!

I have a nephew who started doing this sporadically. In winter, he brought home a motherlode of ice cream and frozen foods, not expired yet, kept frozen by our frigid temps. Last week he had a big bag of allergy and other OTC meds not yet expired. His loot is mainly from dollar store dumpsters, I believe. He shares his “loot” with friends and relatives. Jim

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Just a little update on how I’m doing here, I’ll respond to Taw up there tomorrow at some point, I just don’t have the energy to right now. The sea moss ended up making me depressed and starting giving me dizzy spells and the raw garlic bit me in the ass with digestive problems and started giving meneurological problems as a result. I guess allicin was making something in my guts release some nasty toxins because at first it gave me more clarity and was fine but eventually started giving brain fog, high anxiety, and started overall slowing me down. I was able to beat it back with cistus and surprisingly applce cider vinegar I held in my mouth for a while that eased the swelling in my neck area that came up as a result of the allicin gut disaster. So I think since holding some apple cider vinegar under my tongue for a bit works so well for controlling something infection based that reaches my head from my guts I’m just going to keep at that daily.

I also had some other very interesting reactions lately and it has to do with the krebs cycle and the electron transport chain. I believe I found one of my central problems but I don’t specifically know what is going on.

I one day decided to give tyrosine a go and had a very weird reaction to it. Tyrosin is part of the dopamine cycle and by adding it I was skipping a step. I immediately got very tired but I noticed I would get weird muted bursts of pleasure and music sounded a lot better, I was also a lot more social but at the time the crushing fatigue I got from it was overshadowing that to a large degree. This as the hours went on later turned into complete mania but here is the weird part. There was no physically overstimulating energy, it was strictly mental. My thoughts were moving very quickly and I was able to connect information so well and have such deep thoughts yet it wasn’t physically stimulating and I was physically very tired despite how ironically light I felt. there was so much contradicting information going on that I didn’t know what to make of it until the next days when I tried something else.

So I decided since I was looking up peoples adverse reactions to vitamin D at the time some people had relief energy wise with Magnesium Citrate. I’ve never tried that form though and it’s the main form used in high doses as a laxative. I decided to give it a try at 120 mg and it was like almost instantly I felt an energy sensory clarity and motor functioning wise I haven’t in forever, I had that speed back to everything, everything felt so light and I was so reactive physically to all sensations at a baseline. It was what was missing from the tyrosine reaction! Though I also had a crappy immune reaction to it and couldn’t continue though I am going to try raw citric acid low dose and see what happens. I heard some is actually sourced from mold and I am mold sensitive so that could also be why I reacted badly, I need to find a brand that isn’t sourced from black mold. I can’t be sure if this will work out for me and I’m not banking on it because of my immune issues but I’ll give it a try. I was going to try lemon juice but I react badly to fruit and though I know in lemons the specific fruit sugar levels are low but it might still cause issues from a natural source like that directly.

Now citrate is a crucial component of the krebs cycle which got me looking at it and it clicked that what is largely going wrong with me is that something is messing with this cycle and SP along with other factors at the time completely crashed it. You can have all the nuerotransmitters and hormones in the world but if this engine isn’t cycling energy properly then nothing works like it should. I was already taking magnesium malate since way back it was the best form for me but I looked it up and some people had issues with it making them more sluggish and someone else said it worked at first and then didn’t at some point. I decided to next try citruline malate which would be a combination of 2 krebs cycle factors. The results were interesting, I got very drowsy and anhedonic that luckily started passing over later. Killed my reactivity to things a bit but nothing terrible otherwise happened and I was still able to get aroused though it got a bit slower. Then I read that certain abundances of these factors can also cause issues so I decided today to stop taking the magnesium malate and what do you know I’m clearer headed today and calmer in a good way. My sensation and all is just fine and I need to regain some physical reactivity but everything is intact and feels better without it now. I have also been able to get stronger erections now and feel more pleasure when it does get firing. There is clearly something wonky going on in my mitochrondria that is acting like an energy ceiling though specifically I don’t know what. I suppose once I try sitrate again I might have more answers and I’m currently brainstorming more ideas here to target what is going on here. Many different nutrients also feed into it and it’s extremely complex though it seems to explain a lot going on. Since what I did my nocturnal and morning erections have been much stronger, definitely feeling more lust now under whatever I did here.

Any manager I know would at least frown on it, I don’t see any dumpster divers or can collectors here. I used to be one of them myself and over time the money made really adds up from it. A lot of what goes in that garbage is fresh expired food that is almost always still good and broken items. Occasionally you might something working just fine in there that got thrown own cause we couldn’t figure out how to get it to work that someone returned. I always avoided going into the trash at anywhere I worked at because I don’t wanna take that chance or burn any bridges. Wasn’t an issue with me though there was plenty of other places. Around here no one really cared but I have gotten public harassment anyways and it was less common but sometimes people would call a fake police report on me and try to get me arrested for something else and every time officers were more than happy to try to find the thing to arrest me for that didn’t exist. Got really fed up with it after a while because when anything happened to me there would be no help.

Oh that’s what you meant. In my case I really don’t know what to think. My body’s regulation of it all is completely messed up. I don’t really get sick anymore but I always feel like I’m having a very low grade immune reaction to something to keep under control. Ar the same thing though most things that would make my immune system shut up now are very crashy. For me Cistus tea has been like a immune reset button for me that doesn’t really do that even though it makes me a bit drowsy so I drink it later in the evening when I have it. I have also had toxic mold issues before and I wish I could just start completely fresh in a new place all new items in my life altogether but that’s just not realistic.

That is actually how I got my current job, it was dumb luck out of the blue. I hadn’t applied to anywhere in over a year. One morning I got a call and took it, didn’t look back, and I got it. I was hired on the spot, they just needed fresh bodies and I was the person qualified enough to do it. I even looked like a trainwreck during the interview. I don’t do well with interviews or looking attractive to employers in them anyways because of my mental disorganization and how I have trouble recalling things from memory with those “So tell me about a time when you…” questions. I can still get through it just fine but it’s just awkward at times and I’m pretty sure that’s why despite my experience it’s harder to get my foot in the door these days that is if I get an interview at all anymore. I had 1 recently, radio silence on literally everything else. On applying somewhere and jumping ship into a worse situation is something I also have nightmares about weekly, it’s part of why I think I’m just going to stay on my sinking ship until it does sink and then start applying again. Employers on applications also want to see full time availability from the beginning so that may also be why I’m not getting any call backs, they want all of you IMMEDIATELY or not at all. marshmallow root gave an allergic like reaction, it somehow broke through the fatigue a bit earlier on but it irritated my throat and everything., can’t recall slippery elm doing anything for me besides making me a bit more tired and tasting/feeling gross going down, but I haven’t tried licorice tea because there’s been really mixed reports on it. I don’t think I have a reason right now anyways where I am to try any real androgenic plants anymore besides eating asparagus fairly often. In a way I’m comfortable with under dosing at first because I’m very sensitive to whatever I put in my system, I suspect I have severe leaky gut because I feel everything that is going to do anything within the first 15 or so minutes of ingesting it. Never thought about the role on how actually tasting the herb plays a role in the body’s response to it and now I actually want to play around with that because I’m curious. I’ve actually has wormwood before and I agree it’s gross, it made me feel a bit wired and my digestive system felt kind of funky on it. Though I had it a while back for Lyme and it didn’t seem to do much there. Cistus and osha root was the most helpful in that department. I never like the way valerian made me feel even though it was good at killing anxiety, puts me in a very foggy tired state of mind that feels kind of twilight zone-ish where I also don’t seem to sleep better or worse with.

I stopped the magnesium for a day and after raw citric acid giving me only a headache and weird immune reaction I tried magnesium citrate again and interestingly I’m not getting the same negative response anymore, got more energy, and felt more connected to myself/the world in general, and in control. So I guess it was just a start up reaction. I’ve started drinking green tea every day too as I can handle it without crashing and it makes me feel better too, may have an extra capsule of propolis in the evening instead of just the morning.