Apologies in advance as this is a bit of a long read, but it has been over 3½ years now and I didn’t want to miss any major points out in case it can benefit others. I had been meaning to write this for some time now – so thanks to ‘Boston’ for giving me that ‘kick up the @#$+’
I started on Propecia mid May 2005, and quit 6 months later after experiencing a very sudden loss of libido – literally overnight.
My libido had increased while on the drug and then stabilised (had always thought it was pretty high anyway), but then experiencing ED for the first time in my life and a complete drop in drive and libido was a sudden shock. As the only medication I was on (and have ever been on apart from a couple of short courses of antibiotics, the last of which was at least 5 years prior to taking Propecia) I immediately stopped taking the pills. For background information I had previously avoided any drugs (recreational or pharmaceutical) wherever possible (I maybe take one aspirin a year, if I have a really bad headache)
I felt a bit better 2 days later and cautiously tried a half tablet. Next day felt bad again and I never had the second half….
In addition to this I found that I was becoming very emotional with unusual mood swings (a fact I later put down to high estradiol or certainly a higher than normal E to T ratio).
After a few weeks I found I was able to have sex again, but erections were not as strong and libido was practically non-existent – even attractive females didn’t register (didn’t catch my eye or turn my head…) and everything felt ‘dead’. ED was less common, but this may be because when I felt things were really ‘low’ I would avoid sex altogether.
Over the next few months there was no real change. I had started doing some research online, although initially found it difficult to focus and put my thoughts together, and early on found and got involved with the old Propecia forum, which was a great help (and also a worry!)
At month 5 off the drug I took my first real action and tried Chinese medicine – I was recommended a herbal product (which since seems to have been withdrawn, but I remember it contained ginseng, semen coicis and semen cuscutae). Just a few hours after taking the first pill I felt a surge of energy and my first spontaneous erection since quitting (completely unexpected and while sitting in a meeting). For the next 48 hours life was back to normal, almost exactly as I had been before taking Fin. When the effects wore off I took another, but this time they only lasted for 24 hours…
A friend of mine is a doctor with a practice in the US and when I told him about the Chinese herbs a few months later he warned me to be very careful as he heard that many of these ‘cures’ also contain steroids which can explain the ‘miracle’ effects. This may be supported by the fact that I tried to duplicate the effects by buying each of the ingredients and combining in the mix stated on the packaging – with absolutely no effect whatsoever, despite varying the concentrations as well.
My friend also told me that when he was practising general medicine (he has since specialised) he took a course in acupuncture and applied this in combination with ‘western’ medicine to treat a number of his patients. He claims that in every case it boosted their recovery (although cannot explain exactly how the mechanism works).
I did try this route in London but I must confess that I probably should have gone to a more professional practitioner than the one I found (I gave up after one ‘treatment’).
Over the next 6 months I still took the herb capsules occasionally, but found I needed to take them infrequently or the effects were minimal. I also discovered that I could reduce the dose and they still took effect – half, even a quarter of a capsule – though this was normally limited to 24 hours max.
After another visit to a doctor (had been a few already) I was also prescribed Viagra which I tried a couple of times – the results of this were mixed. It helped a little with bloodflow but did nothing for libido. I did notice however that I would have nocturnal erections any night after taking it (something that was now extremely rare) and that it was easier the following day. I also experimented with one tablet, breaking it into quite small pieces and taking a piece just before bed, which resulted in nocturnal erections again (I cant remember exactly but I think the smallest piece that worked was about 1/10th of a tablet) – I am sure there was a report about this as well somewhere, about how it could improve bloodflow etc.
Now, 1 year since quitting, I had stopped both of these. I was taking occasional supplements – 15mg of zinc regularly, and flaxseed oil. And my diet had become healthier over the last year – more vegetables, particularly spinach, cabbage, broccoli and more fresh fruit (including bluberries).
I was feeling better overall – I had more energy levels (these had been very low when I quit and had gradually built up) and my mind was getting sharper. I was starting to perform much better at work and got my career back on track (it had stalled and the year before I had taken a step back - in hindsight this was probably no bad thing as it took some stress load away).
The only remaining issues were the sexual sides, notably that libido was still low. I visited a clinical hypnotherapist for a couple of months who thought that I was still stressed by events and who taught me how to go into deep relaxation. This helped a little, but not sure it was a major factor – I have always held that these are not psychological problems, but getting solid rest is essential in any recovery.
The only other treatment I had tried was the broccoli treatment, and I genuinely had some success with this. After 2 days in I had spontaneous erections, but again the effects seemed to dissipate and if I started the treatment again too soon the results were much less. I am so certain that this helped, that to this day I still include broccoli in my diet and try to eat some at least once a week.
18 months after quitting I was starting to feel more human. Libido was still (very slowly) increasing and I had more motivation – I started going to the gym again for the first time since quitting (I had previously gone 2 or 3 times a month). With regard to the sexual sides I felt about 80% recovered – erections were ok, they were just slow to get started and libido was still low, but there!
And the medical reports and examinations that said my testosterone levels and fertility were ok were at least backed up as my partner was pregnant (and practically from a ‘first hit’ while on holiday in the States).
By this time I was starting to believe that full recovery would take 3 to 5 years (as some people have already suggested).
By year 2, things were still improving (although the pace of improvement seemed even slower). I had by now tried months on what I considered an extremely healthy diet (no caffeine, alcohol or sugary snacks), but found this made little difference – I still eat far more healthily than I did before but realise that the odd cup of coffee, chocolate bar or a few glasses of wine during the week make no difference, so why live like a Spartan??
My partner had by now given birth to a very healthy (and now almost 2 years old) little girl.
Libido was still lower than I wanted it to be and I felt about 85% recovered. By now I really believed that the only way to progress was to take a more ‘holistic’ approach and that there wasn’t going to be a ‘magic bullet’ that would cure us all. From what I had read on various sites, especially the data and thoughts collected on the old and new forums I saw 3 areas that I had to work on:
- Mental state – staying positive, minimising stress and getting quality time to relax and decent sleep.
- Shifting the T:E ration in favour of more T!
- Improving my overall blood circulation.
The first point I consider essential. Our problems are not psychological, but excess stress and lack of quality sleep will inhibit healing and put extra work on the adrenal glands (but not in the way we want). Due to the fact that for me the effects of Fin were immediate I think that adrenal fatigue was a factor in my case. Tests I had done at one point also supported this, backed up with a conversation with one of the lab analysts.14 months after quitting my cortisol levels were low and dropped to almost zero late evening, while DHEA levels were well above maximum range.
With regards to the T:E ratio, my thoughts here were that I needed to boost total testosterone as high as I could. At the 6 month mark I had found some small, yet alarming, fatty deposits around my pecs. I have always been within the ideal weight range for my height and this was the first time I had ever felt this – they have now gone completely. If I could get T levels higher I figured I would get more blood flowing, get nocturnals started again and improve the condition of the organ I used to use as a brain!!
To further support this, for the 3rd point I wanted to get my circulatory system into the best shape possible. I figured if I could get blood flowing better where it was needed it would reinforce T production and vice versa.
This follows an early hypothesis I had that if raising the levels of free testosterone improves blood flow and libido, then maybe the reverse (improving blood flow) would work.
I guessed that a combination of small improvements in these areas would make a significant change overall – like cleaning the fuel injectors, spark plugs and air filter…
My regime included:
- Making sure that I got quality time for sleep – ideally 8 hours a night, but a minimum of 6, and taking time out to relax (ie. not working all through the weekend)
- To try and boost testosterone naturally – zinc supplements, weight training at least once a week with heavy weights, bagwork (and the trick here is not just the exercise but in building up and releasing aggression (think ‘manly’!!)
- For bloodflow – diet and supplements. Natural garlic and ginger, flaxseed oil for the omega, occasional doses of vitamin C (and with fruit) as I read that this helps elasticity of the blood vessels, but also that the body can get used to higher doses, purple grape juice or a glass of red wine (from the ‘sunnier’ climates recommended, e.g. rioja) several times a week for the resveratrol (also for blood vessels). In addition I tried to have one or two cold showers a week (for just a few minutes) – again alleged to help the circulation. If I wasn’t really in the mood (brave enough) some days then I would just shower the lower half of my body. The final one here I call ‘Use it or Lose it’ – you have to find ways to stimulate blood flow and have several erections a week (through sex or other), especially if you are not getting nocturnals. Kegel exercises may also help but I could never remember to do them…
One thing I found that was particularly effective for me was coldwater swimming. On a week’s visit to some friends in Eastern Europe last summer I had a swim almost every day in either a river or the Baltic Sea – by the end of the week I felt fantastic and my libido was sky high.
By March of this year, not quite 3 ½ years in, I would put my recovery at about 90 to 95%. My sex life is definitely ok (no ED in over 2 years), libido is still variable but I am getting older so I am probably closer to where it should be for my age (I had a good run before Fin!). Nocturnals are now very frequent (almost every night) which I take as a good sign.
In the last few months I have increased the intensity of weight training (really wanted to see if I could get back to peak condition) – I now go twice a week and vary my routine more (I even use 2 different gyms as the equipment is different). I have had no problem putting on extra muscle – 3 to 4 kg already, and I am actually the strongest I have ever been, so although not tested for some time I think I must be producing a fair amount of T.
The only thing I have noticed is that if I have a really heavy session then a day or so later I see a slight drop in libido, almost as if I have used up my testosterone reserves – I guess I am just pushing too hard sometimes.
The only supplements I have been taking are zinc (with copper) – 15mg per day, approx 5 days per week, but I try and vary it, occasional flaxseed oil capsules (3 or 4 a week) and additional protein under this training regime (in particular a lot of eggs).
I still have the occasional cold shower, or swim in a cold sea (there are plenty around Britain) and still eat reasonably healthily. I try to include the following in my diet each month, but I don’t stress about how much I eat each day or week – broccoli, spinach, tomatoes, walnuts, watermelon (the white part of the rind apparently contains citrulline which the body converts to arginine), blueberries, fresh garlic, brown rice, honey and fish. I figure the odd steak occasionally is ok as well!
That’s all really. The other healer I believe is time. My body was certainly put out of balance and I experienced some dramatic swings in mood and feelings, which through time have damped down to a more consistent level. I feel I am still getting stronger, but now at a slow rate.
The trouble I found was that the tests I had were inconclusive, sometimes contradictory, there was a lack of understanding from the medical professionals I came across and that the full extent of the immeasurable number of interactions between the numerous hormones in our bodies may never be fully understood – leading me to the conclusion that there was probably no simple cure in my case, hence why I eventually decided to focus on total body health. In fact as our bodies are all different it could be that we have all been affected in subtly different ways.
Although things have improved dramatically for me, there is still one missing factor that I am searching for that I believe will give me that last 5 to 10% back.
I believe this because there are days when I am absolutely at 100% as I was before Fin – libido, mental sharpness etc. but I haven’t been able to figure it out what makes the difference. I have had surges in libido sometimes after a night of heavy drinking, even at times when I have felt ill (stomach bugs/ viruses) but can’t logically equate these to an improvement.
I will keep searching, seeing if I can narrow it down, but to be honest I have reached a stage that I am happy with so I feel no real pressure.
Recovery is possible, but the road can be a long one. There are always setbacks along the way – every time I made a major leap forward I took almost as big a leap backwards, but you have to persevere because every tiny incremental improvement is another small step.
This forum and all the success stories it contained was a major source of support. Additionally you need people around you who can help – my partner was a solid support all the way through, and I took inspiration from many others along the way including among others, a fellow sufferer I met up with from Canada, ‘Hypo’ who gave some solid feedback and Mew who has put in more effort than anyone into understanding our issues and creating this forum.
I wish everybody well – have faith, you will continue to improve, though some faster than others, and you will come to realise as I have what the most important things in your life are.
And never, ever give up !