My PFS story (RU, minox, saw palmeto, topical Dut, Aromasin)

Welcome to our community. Please fill in the following template as a way of introducing yourself, and helping others to understand your background and situation.

Where are you from (country)?
Canada

How did you find this forum (Google search – if so, what search terms? Via link from a forum or website – if so, what page? Other?)
From reddit’s

What is your current age, height, weight?
30, 6’3 and 90kg

What specific drug did you use (finasteride, dutasteride, saw palmetto, isotretinoin/Accutane, fluoxetine, sertraline, citalopram, leuprorelin, etc…)?
Dutasteride, Minoxidil, Ru58841, saw palmetto, aromasin, TRT

What dose did you take (eg. 1 mg/day, 1 mg every other day etc.)?
Dutasteride 1mg Monday topical for 2 weeks
Ru- topical 50mg 5day a week
Minox - topical 1ml 25mg 5day a week
Aromasin - used once after dut gyno flair 12.5mg and again months after cessation 12.5mg eod for 2 weeks
Trt started March, 200mg/week up to end of July, then switched to propionate from enanthate, drop to 140mg/week (20mg/day)until September 1st

What condition was being treated with the drug?
Dut - hair loss
Ru-hair loss
Minox - hairloss
Saw palmetto - to increase ejaculation load size (found in holy grail cum stack)
Aromasin - treat gyno cause by dut flare up
Trt - for low energy

For how long did you take the drug (weeks/months/years)?
Dut - only 2 weeks (may17, may24) , 1mg on Monday only for two applications. Stopped after total 2mg exposure
Ru- April 10 to mid July ish
Minoxisil April 10 to mid July ish
Saw palmetto - April 10- may 1
Armasin - once dose may 26 and 1 week use in August 20-27 or so
Trt March - September 1

How old were you, and WHEN (date) did you start the drug?

30 started dut may 17, ru March 10, minox March 10, aromasin on and off (May 26 and August) trt from March to September 1, saw palmetto April 10-april 30

How old were you when you quit, and WHEN (date) did you quit?
30 quit all
Quit dut may 26
Quit saw palmetto April 30
Quit ru and minox mid July
Quit aromasin late August
Quit trt September

How did you quit (cold turkey or taper off)?
Cold turkey quit for everything at their respective times

How long into your usage did you notice the onset of side effects?

Only noticed sides from topical dut, 2 days after had acute crash and 2 weeks later another crash.
Also crashed from aromasin in august

What side effects did you experience that have yet to resolve since discontinuation?

Prostatitis symptoms 2 weeks after ending dutasteride. Persisted for 3 mo this of burning urine, painful pelvic floor and tight prostate and bladder. Developed hard flaccid and long flaccid after aromasin use.

Check the boxes that apply. You can save your post first, then interactively check/uncheck the boxes by clicking on them. If your symptoms change, please update your list.

Sexual
[x ] Loss of Libido / Sex Drive
[ x] Erectile Dysfunction
Complete Impotence
[ x] Loss of Morning Erections
[ x] Loss of Spontaneous Erections
[ x] Loss of Nocturnal Erections
Watery Ejaculate
[ x] Reduced Ejaculate
Inability or Difficulty to Ejaculate / Orgasm
Reduced Sperm Count / Motility

Mental
Emotional Blunting / Emotionally Flat
[x ] Difficulty Focusing / Concentrating
[ x] Confusion
[x ] Memory Loss / Forgetfulness
[x ] Stumbling over Words / Losing Train of Thought
Slurring of Speech
[x ] Lack of Motivation / Feeling Passive / Complacency
[x ] Extreme Anxiety / Panic Attacks
[ x] Severe Depression / Melancholy
[x ] Suicidal Thoughts

Physical
[ x] Penile Tissue Changes (narrowing, shrinkage, wrinkled)
[x ] Penis curvature / rotation on axis
[x ] Testicular Pain
[ x] Testicular Shrinkage / Loss of Fullness
[ x] Genital numbness / sensitivity decrease
Weight Gain
[ x] Gynecomastia (male breasts)
Muscle Wastage
Muscle Weakness
[ x] Joint Pain
Dry / Dark Circles under eyes

Misc
[ x] Prostate pain
[x ] Persistent Fatigue / Exhaustion
[ x] Stomach Pains / Digestion Problems
Constipation / “Poo Pellets”
Vision - Acuity Decrease / Blurriness
[ x] Tinnitus (ringing or high pitched sound in ears)
Hearing loss
[x ] Increased hair loss
[ x] Frequent urination
Lowered body temperature

[ x] Other (please explain)
Bladder issues of weak stream

What (if any) treatments have you undertaken to recover from your side effects since discontinuation of the drug?

Keto, fasting 3 days, aromasin, trt, hcg, cistanche, tongkat ali, mucuna pruriens, ubiquinol, heat therapy, Cialis daily, viagra, ubiquinol, vitamins and minerals, manual traction, nattokinase, royal jelly, so many htings i lose track of it… HCG

If you have pre or post-drug blood tests, what hormonal changes have you encountered since discontinuing the drug (please post your test results in the “Blood Tests” section and link to them in your post)?

https://i.imgur.com/AJ0Xh9C.png This was my first set of blood work on august. We can see even with very high free testosterone and total testotserone, i cannot even maintain erections. This show to me DHT is the leader of signalling for blood flow, at least for my body.

This set of blood test was 1 month later, i quit all TRT at this point, i didnt have total T, or estrogen or shbg because thsi time my dr order the tests, and he argue with me we don’t need to see these , only free T matter… https://imgur.com/a/OvDbP2Y

And here is my most latest test, from november 8. We see my total T is very high still, i didnt inject anything for 3 month now it is long out of my system. so what is happening is nolvadex and clomid are still working on my HPGA and causing high T output, but as well as HIGH SHBG… so my free T is in middle of the range… Still have bad erections with this hormonal profile…

Then again 1 month later

Anything not listed in the above questions you’d like to share about your experience?
I did used clomid and tamoxifen after discontinued trt to restore my testicle function.

Tell us your story, in your own words, about your usage and side effects experienced while on/off the drug.

Mid March (2021) begin trt 200mg/week split in 2 doses initially, erection quality worsened by late March, 100% pre TRT erections went to 80%, but penis still functioned normally, just felt less inflated. Now I didn’t panic because naturally in the TRT scene ED is related to too high or low estrogen. If I knew what would happen in the months ahead, I would have stopped right here.

Late march - Used HCG late March when balls started to shrink, erections go from 80% to 85%. Used protocol of 250iu eod to start. I found days of no hcg softer erections than the day I used hcg, especially a few hours after. This was a ‘restoring libido to favorable ranges’ protocol by Vigorous steve. Because of the initial improvements in EQ from hcg, i continued the cycle and didnt think much of the softer erections and that I woudl have the protocol dialed in soon.

April 10 start Ru58841 50mg/day on scalp. No issues, still 85% erections. MPMD pushing ru as a good hairloss prevention drug. I thought why not, and got from the source he pushes (anigenic). I didn’t notice any issues with erections changing at all. Maybe this played a part slowly over time or maybe it had no effect, but its hard to tell at this point.

May 16, I decide to use 1mg topical dut since MPMD has a video about the molecular weight of dutasteride being over 500 daltons, meaning it wouldn’t go systemic in a topical application… Boy was this a huge mistake on my part to listen to these guys just because they think they are smart. May 24 used 1mg topical dut for the final time. Following day felt itchy nipples, gyno symptoms, took first aromasin dose 12.5mg as a precaution, next day had a lump form overnight at breast area. Stopped the topical dut after 2 weeks and stopped the ai use after that one preventative dose from the gyno flare up. A few days in during week 2 after 2nd dose of Dut and ai dose, erections were at 0%. I had orgasmed while fully soft. I believe due to the dut as nothing up to this point ever caused such a reaction.

June 1 - June 16 erection quality recovered back to 70/80%. I used Leo, Steve protocol for hcg heavy use… 2kiu eod for a couple weeks. Saw some return to life in my penis. I had sex afew times with girls here, but penis went soft often inside of them even with 20mg cialis.

June 17 woke up with burning urethra towards the base of the spongeosum during urination. Suspected Std, booked appointment for June 24 with Dr. The burning urine feeling was only once per day in the morning, and was not as bad if I drank a lot of water prior to bed.

June 30 tests come negative, July 10 more negative tests, urinalysis shows everything normal, no culture growth in urine. Experimented with pt141 to get erections better, but still 80% and no random erections /hit or miss morning wood. Noticing I can only get hard with stimulation and weaker erections while standing.

July 15+, burning urethra now also paired with itchy urethra for rest of the day. this persisted into august.

July 27 stop testosterone enanthate pins because I am planning to come off everything to PCT and just get my dick back to functioning. No mental panic has set in yet, as I still think this is an E2 issue and I just am not dialed in correctly. I also dont suspect PFS because I managed to get some kind of recovery of penile function from the 0%. I didn’t link the burning urethra/urine to the dutasteride yet. I also stop RU at this time since I am tired of daily applications of hair topicals.

August 2 start testosterone propionate 20mg/day. I do this to bridge the gap while I wait for the enanthate ester to clear my body since propionate is a very fast half life. My erections actually 2 hours after pinning propionate went to 100%… I had the strongest boners in months, and it lasted 4 days then disappeared entirely… This is reminiscent to those temporary fixes people have in their experimentations post PFS before crashing again.

August 24, took prostate digital exam, Dr thinks it’s normal. PSA levels low. Blood work shows e2 at 59pg/ml. Took AI aromasin 12.5mg eod for 10 days. By end of 10 days, erections disappeared. Weak morning woods. It’s like my penis trying to get hard but cannot.also noticed long and skinny penis, girth has been lost by e2 crashing or Dut fibrosis…

Late August to early September, take 2kiu hcg eod again after the AI probably nuked my e2. Didn’t have the recovery relief like I did after dut use. Penis is weak, morning woods are pathetic… i can feel its trying to innervate down there but isnt getting stiff at all. I still have a mind penis connection though at this point.

September 1, quit trt and bridge remaining days to pct with hcg because I am tired of poor erections, and burning urethra feeling. Have blood tests, free T middle of range, e2 sensitive was 19pg/ml. Prolactin 13ug/L. My erections issues are not e2 related at all. This is more complex. Even behaviour of the penis is very off. The prostatitis symptoms continue (itchy urethra, very intense and constant all day and burning pangs in the spongeosum)

Mid September, have intense burning pain in penis, perinium, and scrotal ceiling when pressing, and difficulty urinating. Feeling of aching penis constantly, like it had been stretched inside. Feeling of having to urinate, but unable to… Sitting on toilet for 5-10 minutes and eventually drops of pee come out and relief comes briefly, then feeling returns. Warm baths help to let pee out. Start pct September 20. 40/40/20/20/10 nolva 25/25/25/25/12.5 enclomiphene

October 7 Dr gives doxycycline for 2 weeks, theorizing prostatitis. By week 1 end of antbx, most pain had gone. By 2nd week all symptoms of penile pain and perinium, urinary issues gone. Only 1 urine issue is weak stream, to this day still weak stream sometimes. I also am unable to tell if my bladder is 20% full or 80% full, as it feels the exact same. Only at 90%+ fullness I know that I have to pee, as my bladder has a sharp pressure feeling like I have to release… this isn’t how my bladder used to feel when I was ready to pee.

After the antibiotics course, I Developed hard flaccid syndrome around this time, but morning woods are sometimes 80% or 90%, or 40%, random and can’t predict what’s going on with them. Sometimes wake up at 4am with stiff penis, sometimes bendy. Penis can fill with blood but is soft, skinny and long/overextended flaccid a lot of the times and just rests on my thigh. Penis looks like it has lost girth and fullness overall. Neurogenic /psychogenic erections are very strange, they get to a long flaccid state then stuck there, need stimulation to get harder. I notice erections go away when standing unless I’m already as hard as I can from stimulation lying down. I never get hard walking or moving around like I did before starting trt and dut. I go soft fast when I get distracted, and don’t feel arousal as much. My penis also feels disconnected from the body , sensitivity has been dialed down like 50%.

I cannot tell when I have a erection like before. It feels weak, I used to have throbbing hard erections and pulsing pleasurable feelings but it’s entirely gone.Penis constantly feels tense and hard like a flexed bicep when flaccid or during long flaccid, but no rigidity. This is in hard small flaccid mode also during long flaccid it feels tight and weak After ejaculation, the penis goes from 70-90% hard to long flaccid mode, where it stays like that for a very long period of time like 5+ minutes. Detumescence feels very strange, like the blood is stuck inside or leaving the area in a strange way.

November - The amount of time it takes blood to void my penis after ejaculation is reduced, not 5-10 minutes anymore but more liek 5 minutes. I still have a disconnect of feeling between the mind and penis. morning woods are random, but never very hard, usually just like a large flaccid that feels detached from my body lacking any pleasureable sensations. I still have libido and can work myself to 80-90% erection with my hands, but I have turned into a premature ejaculator also, as I am only hard when I am edging or chasing the orgasm.

Welcome to the forum @Ygb350 , and thank you for giving us the full story.

Did you quit Dutasteride in August this year? It seems like you have tried an amazing amount of interventions since then. If there’s any advice I can give, it would be to give the body a break from endocrine-related drugs. It’s possible that, given enough time, the system can sort itself out.

Anecdotally, the chance of recovering ‘naturally’ the first year or two seems pretty good.

I know it could sound crazy to ask you to live with these symptoms that long, but it might be better than risking a permanent worsening of symptoms.

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Welcome to the club. Your current condition(November) resembles mine so much. But I haven’t ever tried any fin-related drugs, only Roaccutane. Also I haven’t experienced any prostatitis-like conditions, no pain or urinating issues. Yet we end up in the same point. It’s quite ironical how premature ejaculations combine with genital numbness. Looks like quite obvious evidence of some signaling malfunction.

Hello guys, I know many here already tried Proviron… some to varying degrees. I will want to trial it at least for a month or two to see how it feels. Is this the correct duration? the half life are 12- 13 hours. I am hoping to take 50mg 2x a day for 100mg. but maybe the first week I will start 25mg a day to see if i have some bad effect.

I experience hard flaccid/rubber flaccid/ long flaccid. numb genital, reduced sensitivity, smaller penis size, mental fatigue, no libido, heart palpation at 4am , panic and anxiety, waking up feeling like im in a nightmare but as the day progress i feel a bit better… especially if i focus on something work or elsewhere. Also I feel penile pain very often.

I will combine this proviron with heat sock at 40C , and some supplement I take serrapeptate, nattokinase, cialis 5mg/daily and cistanche. I hope to see some improvement in my symptoms. I am very new in this , and i wish i didnt have to be here but it is what it is. please hope for me. I plan to try HCG if proviron dont work, then hcg + proviron maybe and andractim later on penis as cream. I dont know. We will see, i will keep a log going. my proviron i should arrive sometime soon.

I quit dutasteride after two applications only (May 17, may 24). The total was 2mg over the span of two weeks. but its true the half life is 5 weeks, and therefore to clear it entirely from system is 25 weeks. I will be surprised if 2mg caused complete reduction of 5ar but i would imagine i recovered my DHT by now. It’s hard to get this blood test here where I live. Even so, it seems the recovery of DHT to pre-fin levels does not resolve our problems.

I am worried yes of my experiments, but I feel penile pain and shrinking. I’m very scared the veins and arteries there shrank and the tissue become more elastic and fibrotic. ugh, I hope to confirm if there is any damage soonat hospital.

@Ultra did you experience same as me, cannot erect while standing up? weak erection when you stand up, cannot even stimulate to be hard?

I did experience some shrinking, now it’s better but I can’t say for sure it is the same as it used to be. I still see more wrinkled skin which makes me think it was larger indeed.
Also it’s not that bad now that there’s now erection while standing. But the morning wood is disappearing quite soon after standing up(I remember it wasn’t like this before) and erection in general doesn’t last long without stimulation(again it used to be different). And no spontaneous erections while standing (and like 1-2 while sitting in whole this year, 0 in the previous one).

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So I started proviron last night. I tooking 25mg pill every 6hr 3x a day so 75mg total. First day yesterday after 2hrs of first pill, I felt a clearer head and less stress and anxiety over my situation. I went to bed with a trazadone quarter pill, first time I slept through from night to morning in one piece.

Took the proviron 25mg when I worked up and feel OK, penis was a nice and spongey and erection in bed felt a little more normal but nowhere near to before. I’m happy so far with how proviron is going, I have only 100 pills, so 3 a day will be 30 days. Is this enough time and dose 75mg a day? My shbg were very high and I know proviron will lower this molecule in the blood

I don’t think anyone would be able to answer that.

The protocol most people have tried are "Pal’s) and he used 200mg a day for like 6-7 weeks.

You can read his thread here.

If you end up feeling better/cured it might be worth take some blood tests, maybe you’ll be able to understand what changed.

But it could also be you get cured just like Pal if you’re lucky.

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Thank you. I will try some blood test again soon.
I’ll conti ur 75mg a day, 200 is expensive lol this tabs are 2$ for 25mg tab.

Day 3 update : my mental resilience is better, I feel the night time terror/anxiety is reduced in duration. Something about night time really flares up my mental symptoms so it’s nice to have this mood booster from proviron.

I have increased libido, and sperms are still normal. Unfortunately better libido doesn’t change my ED, still have hard flaccid and long flaccids. Loss of sensitivity, penile pain.

Overall in satisfied SO far with how this trial is going. If 75mg is this powerful maybe worth to go 100 or 125.

Bad news is the hospital declined my referral to the andrology unit because I’m not from the province of the hospital… So have to Continue with my shitty urologist who take 6 month and still 0 diagnosis on the prostatitis symptoms

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update for you guys.
I drop down to 25mg proviron ED now in morning from 75mg… i did this on day 7. I noticed my testicles shrinking a bit, which means it probably was suppressing me a little but i hope 25mg will keep natural production going. I have some enclomiphene i can take if i need to. Since hte beginning of the proviron trial, i only had 1 mental breakdown and crying moments. I notice hard flaccid pain is reduced, but the irritating urethral pain at the base of penis is back in full force , even after peeing and ejaculation. The erections are a little bit stronger i guess, hard to say.

Main pros so far are alessening of the heart palpitations/ electrical jolts that would wake me up at 4am every day for 2 months… this was a major source of my troubles. Another pro is feeling more calm through the day… less penile pain from hard flaccid…

negatives:
after a few days, my libido went up , then back down im guessing since the suppression of T from proviron. I’m not concerned here.
Penis still feels disconnected from the body, and i still have hard flaccid rubbery penis, and long flaccid engorged penis after ejaculation.

I have uro appointment december 7 and hope to get some answers. I will tell him i did pills etc and they dont help me, to get some real tests done even a flesh biopsy for a cellular study if I can. I will of course post back here

Do you experience morning and spontaneous erections now? What about numbness?

I don’t get nocturnal erections , i alway swake up with a small flaccid. But when it’s more the snoozing in the morning is when I can get some morning erections.
As for spontaneous erections just from standing around or working or seeing ladies, i haven’t had this in 6 months. I can’t even get hard when i am standing or walking … i used to but not anymore.
Also the numbness is still there… the erogenous sensations of touching my penis are gone, its only there if i chase an orgasm. It’s like my penis became my scrotum, in that touching the scrotum derives no pleasurable sensation. And of course, When I get erect with stimulation, it feels hollow still, and no throbbing or pulsing penile sensation… its hard to tell if i’m hard mentally… i have to bend with my hand to test rigidity…