Do not misunderstand I am trying to understand what happened to you because it seems you were like at least me hormonally, I am not insisting on saying that it is good and every one should try it. People killed them selves because of this!!
What I want to do is figuring out why this thing fixes every sexual symptom for me, except Ed and if I take pde5 inhibitor, I can have a normal life. I know it is not sustainable like I said before my liver cannot handle it.
What I want to understand is why it is so effective on libido, sensitivity and visual lust until today my best theory is it some how changes serotonin actions in brain this is similar like pssd fixes with serotonin lowering mechanisms.
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@DHT
Like you, AI’s used to provide me with a temporary relief and gets me hypersexual even during later years when my E2 became chronically low, I still got occasional high libido on them. I’ve zero idea what was happening that caused this temporary libido surge. Could be neurotransmitters related or favorable hormonal shift.
I’d surmise that AI’s would initially drive E2 down and T up (via negative feedback loop) and as their levels are bouncing back/rebounding, you hit that delicate T/E2 sweet spot along the process, which balances Serotonin & Dopamine resulting in amazing sex drive.
Libido is ultimately governed by Dopamine and Serotonin. I think our mind interprets high motivation/anticipation (high dopamine) as a libido or as a desire to get something done or sense of reward. However, the pathway in which Dopamine creates this particular effect so called Mesolimbic pathway is triggered by D2 receptors in the brain and is said to be modulated by E2. High dopamine without adequate serotonin would result in being hyper or too stimulated/anxious/agitated. This is when Serotonin comes into play, it induces the sense of relaxation, which balances out your state of mind leading to better sexual activity. Don’t quote me on this, it’s merely a speculation.
I used 5-HTP and it made me too relaxed to my liking. I didn’t feel like I needed to chase women or seek sexual intimacy because my mind was mainly focused on “Now & Here” with absent sense of anticipation. L-Dopa alone, on the other hand, made me hyper and maniac not able to feel comfortable in my own skin. So I ultimately dropped both because balancing these two fellows is near impossible through amino acids manipulation alone.
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Another compelling E2 & libdio study:
Abstract
"Testosterone replacement improves quality of life and is aromatized in men in adipose tissues to estrogen. Hyperestrogenism is believed to be harmful to male sexuality. This is a description of our experience of screening 34,016 men in the Low T Centers, of which approximately 50% were converted to treatment. Men were treated with injectable testosterone, and we have available data from 2009 to 2014. The data were extracted from our electronic health record (AdvancedMD) of 35 Low T Centers across the United States. In all, 7,215 (20.2%) out of the 34,016 patients had high estradiol levels defined as ≥42.6 pg/ml. Estradiol was measured using electro-chemiluminescence immunoassay. Of the patients who had high estradiol levels, the age distribution was as follows: 132/989 (13.3%) were older than 65 years, 3,753/16,955 (22.1%) were between 45 and 65 years; 2,968/15,857 (18.7%) were between 25 and 44 years, 7/215 (3.3%) were younger than 25 years. The difference between extreme age groups (<25 and ≥65) was statistically significant using a chi-square test ( p = .013). The correlation coefficient of serum estradiol to age was .53, SD = 8.21. It was observed that practitioners used aromatase inhibitor and selective estrogen receptor modulator to treat symptoms of hyperestrogenism, irrespective of blood estradiol levels. Gynecomastia was rarely documented as a reason for the prescription.
finding was that high estradiol levels were not associated with higher rates of low libido but established higher rates of documented low libido with those with normal or lower estradiol levels. The difference was statistically significant ( p < .05)."
"
Our study did not link high estradiol levels with diminished sexual performance.
Paradoxically, patients with low estradiol below 42.6 pg/ml had more patients complaining of low libido as defined by ICD-9 of 799.81 in the problem list. Patients with higher estradiol levels above 42.6 pg/ml had less sexual dysfunction problems identified by their providers. Of those that providers had identified as having low libido, 2,726 of 7,332 patients (31%) had higher estradiol levels and 4,606 patients (69%) had normal estradiol levels. In contrast to those who did not complain of low libido, 4,811 patients (28%) had high estradiol and 12,360 patients (72%) had normal estradiol levels."
Read more here:
https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/full/10.1177/1557988314539000
Why not try to raise your test and afterwards use a pct (like arimidex)? There are people with pfs who are cured that way.
Just like many bodybuilders who alos have the same side effects as us after a bad cycle. A lot of them recover after another cycle with a good pct.
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I wish that had worked for me!
Yep, men, and all human beings, need estrogen! Men who have their estrogen too low experience a lot of cognitive/musculoskeletal dysfunction.
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My e2 was 73 last time I tested. AI’s are so bad.
I am testing again next week (I am on TRT). My total t was 1500+ at that point though so it was balancing out. Some people have a theory that a 20:1 ratio of total T to e2 is about right for most people.
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I’ve been feeling superb as of late. The libido’s there and I’m experiencing a balanced state of feeling motivated vs. mellow/relaxed with zest for life. Morning erections are awesome too.
I’m currently on this combo:
DHEA + B Vitamins + Coconut oil + Probiotic + Ginko Biloba + 4X working out a week + 2500 kcal per day
Hope this lasts though. I’ll carefully record any changes (postive or negative). I plan to get a bloodwork done soon to establish a baseline for feeling good times.
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How long have you had pfs?
@Hbcap
Took finesteride on and off over the years but I quit indefinitely in 2010. I had times where I felt like I had recovered but I’d always relapse. Though my real journey to recovery begun in 2017.
I’m now feeling my best ever. I worked on so many fronts but it’s certainly worth it.
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@zzz123
Prior to 2017, I just lived in denial. I thought I was destined to live with PFS forever and that I’m doomed (hence my nickname). I remember experiencing severe symptoms and didn’t know what to make of them. I just waited and waited. It was Summer 2017 when I finally decided to do something about it. It literally took me 3 years of daily research plus numerous tests and tracking down everything in a daily journal to be where I am today.
To everyone here… there’s hope!
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Hey bro,
Just got my blood work.
E2 - 20 pg/mL [11 - 44]
DHEA-s - 192.8 ug/dl Age (21- 30): [85 - 690]
Cortisol (8 AM) - 13.36 ug/dl [4.30 - 22.40]
Hashimoto’s(ATG) - <0.9 IU/mL [Negative <4]
AMA - 0.8 [Negative <9]
LH - 4.50 mIU/mL [0.57 -12.07]
Testosterone - 430 ng/dL [240.2 -870.7]
SHBG - 19.0 nmol/L [11.2 - 78.1]
Liver profile - Normal
25 OH Vitamin D Total - 61.9 ng/mL [Sufficiency 30 - 50]
Supplements i am taking at the moment -
B12 Methylcolobamin - 1500mcg/day
Vitamin C - 1000mg/day
DAA - 3g/day
Indian Valerian(Tagara) - 500mg/day
Supplements i plan to take-
Antibiotic Xifixan (Dosage?)
Probiotic
Collagen
DHEA (think my level is low)
Any supplement that can reduce the Vitamin D levels?
Symptoms: Loss of body hair, facial and even eyebrows, Thicker hair on scalp, Chronic dry eyes(Diagnosed), Low fertility, Degree of ED, Disturbed sleep max 5 - 6 hours, Brain fog and declined cognition, Fatigue.
Its been exactly three years this day! I wish i had the will to fight PFS earlier than assume my body would recover naturally someday. The doctors are clueless, have literally met dozens and everyone would just say its normal. I have decided to not be passive about it and do whatever it takes to break loose from this mess. Recommend a plan of action bro supplements wise, diet and any lifestyle changes.
@5alphaVictim
I’m terribly sorry you’re going through this bro. Good job on getting the tests.
I’ve scanned both your labs and your symptoms and below is my take:
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Testosterone needs to be higher. Try and get it up to 500s or even 600s. Do you work out? Are you eating adequate fats and saturated fats? How many calories per day? 5-6 hours of sleep is okish but not optimal. 7-8 hours is. You may try sleep aids like a low dose Magnesium (~80mg) & ~0.3mg Melatonin.
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Your E2 is borderline low but it’s not indicative of any issues with T > E2 conversion. Just raising your Testosterone will elevate E2 further up and will help with libido a lot.
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You said you’re shedding hair everywhere (including eye brows). This makes me suspect a thyroid issue! Get TSH, FT4 & FT3 tested ASAP. You need TSH closer to 1.00 and also try and measure body temperature first thing in the morning using thermometer. Are you using iodized salt? Btw, ever tested your ferritin?
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DHEA-s is borderline low. Cortisol is low-normal. Do you feel sleepy/tired in the morning? High stress (mental &/or physical) diverts Pregnenolone toward more Cortisol and less DHEA leading to less sex hormones production. Chronic stress also affects Cortisol. Try and manage your stress effectively. You may try a low dose DHEA (~10mg a day) for two weeks and see how you feel. Stay away from high caffeine.
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Your Vitamin D is high. Stop it altogether. High Vitamin D affects Vitamin A status. Start eating beef liver 3X a week. It’ll take 2-3 months for level to decrease.
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Are you suffering from any gut problems? Diarrhea, Constipation, Bloating, flatulence, pains, Indigestion, food intolerances, acid reflux or anyhthing else? I had small intestine bacterial overgrowth (SIBO) and took Rifaximin/Xifaxan for 2 weeks. It helped a lot. I then followed it up with Probiotic of the following strains:
Lactobacillus gasseri, Bifidobacterium bifidum, Bifidobacterium longum, & L. Reuteri -
Stop taking isolated Vitamins including B-12. 500mg Vitamin C should be enough. Personally I stopped even Vitamin C. Take one single multivitamin with normal RDA’s. Nothing in high doses! You may try B-Complex of normal doses. DAA is ok to be taken in cycles (2 weeks on & 2-3 weeks off).
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Your SHBG is lowish. This means you may need a higher Testosterone level to feel the effects. What’s your current weight & body fat %? Low SHBG may also indicate issue with Thyroid, high insulin resistance. Have them checked if you can.
Try the above and remain hopeful!
What were the most important things you did to get better?
- Fix my gut. This is the single most important factor.
- Balance T/E2 ratio.
- Treat inflammation.
- Optimize Adrenals (Cortisol/DHEA-s) & Thyroid (bring TSH level from 3.00 to 1.00).
- Moderate workout (resistance + cardio).
- Fix sleep problems.
- Balanced diet (30% fats, 40% carbs & 30%protein).
- Use some supplements (DHEA; multivitamin; low dose B Vitamins; Probiotic).
- Time.
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I have recently started working out and yoga too. Right now i started using Valerian root extract to aid with sleep, if it doesn’t work i will try melatonin.
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T3 - 78 ng/dl 58 - 159
T4- 7.04 ug/dl 4.87 - 11.72
TSH- 3.17 uIU/ml 0.35 - 4.94
FT3- 3.14 pg/ml 1.71 - 3.71
FT4- 1 ng/dl 0.70 -1.48
Apart from a higher TSH, all seems normal. The doctor thinks TSH is normal. I consume iodised sea salt. I am pretty sure my ferritin levels are normal although i did not test recently.
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Yes, I wake up feeling tired and that’s a bummer. Makes me regret the decision everyday right in the morning. I have ordered a 25mg DHEA, is it okay to have at such dosage or will i need to tone down?
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I don’t really have digestive or gut issues per se but when the sleep is bad, guess there’s a degree of indigestion. The closest product in India containing those stands is one with the following -L. plantarum, L. fermentum, L. acidophilus, B. infantis, L. casei, L. rhamnosus, B. lactis, L. reuteri, L.salivarius, L. paracasei, L. gasseri, S. thermophilus, B. bifidum & B. breve.
Is it really possible to bring down TSH without medication?
@5alphaVictim
Never taken Valerian root so can’t be much of a help. Melatonin in minute doses helps, but it’s temporary solution.
TSH is a tad hish’ish. Including iodized salt and eating beef liver (high in copper) helped lower mine. Low Ferritin causes symptoms similar to hypothyroid. I increased mine from 45 to 100 and felt a lot better.
I’d suggest 10mg DHEA for 2 weeks and gauge how you feel on it then you can increase the dose. DHEA should also be cycled. Also focus on elevating your Testosterone to >500. It’s a game changer.
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Did DHEA help you the most?
@Peterson DHEA is not magic. I had numerous tests done and interestingly DHEA (and E2) always turned out very low and Cortisol high normal. Naturopaths call this “Stage 2 Adrenal Fatigue”, where most of pregnenolone (mother of all hormones) is converted into Cortisol rather than DHEA. Cortisol’s elevated when there’re ongoing stresses (mental & physical). Examples include overtraining, inflammation, psychological trauma, rumination, too much caffeine. I started taking it in small doses and have felt great. I suspect it helped balance Cortisol/DHEA-s as well as T/E2 since DHEA is said to convert mostly to E2 in men.
My plan is to get a bloodwork done when I complete two weeks on DHEA and see how numbers have changed. I’ll post the results.
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Thanks for all the info.
Btw, you have pfs for years right? And only when you started to take action you became better, correct?
How many % are you recovered from pfs?
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