My previous nystatin/herbs/etc. protocol is what recovered my around the end of 2011. This is still my normal state - recovered. I went roughly 18months with nothing, and stayed recovered. It was after this 18months post recovery that I started cycling. I’m still recovered, though when on cycle I can induce PFS symptoms very easily through cycle manipulation. Also, when on cycle I do NOT respond to the compounds in a normal fashion compared to others, and I believe this is because of once having PFS.
When off cycle, I go back to normally recovery, so I never lost anything. I’m still recovered, though I’m hear to try and find others that cycle and experience the same things that I have, which as I mentioned, I believe are from PFS.
I was stacking Letrozole, Aromasin, and Nolva. I used just Letrzole, I used just Aromasin. I have tried multiple combinations. I have not taking 2.5mg Letrzole 4 times day lol. That’s pretty funny actually. Though I can say with some conclusiveness, that yes estrogen is a key factor, though hesitant to claim that letro 2.5mg daily with t prop 10mg daily will cure PFS. I have cruised on test prop at 10mg daily, 20mg eod, 20mg daily, I have tired quite a bit. I do believe that 10mg t prop daily with some e control will GREATLY improve the PFS state…though recovery…uhh no so sure about that.
Here is the kicker - We all know Masteron is “DHT” (not technically, but for all intensive purposes will say it’s very close to DHT). I can tell you when on a simple cycle of just test and adding masteron, bad stuff happens.
Here is one example.
Cruising on test prop 10mg daily, Aromasin 12.5mg eod - this was working great.
added in VERY low dose 30mg Masteron (building doses are 200mg+ eod) one Friday with my test injection - BAM! Felt awesome!
libido through the rough! Mental acumen recovered fully, NO BRAIN fog. 2 days later - HUGE water retention, mental clarity gone, back to normal brain fog, libido still high. A week later, libido back to normal, brain fog normal, HUGE water weight and bloat.
What happen?
Was the first day of injection great because of the nice influx of “DHT” (masteron)? Probably.
If so, why did this compound, Masteron, know for lean DRY gain cause a HUGE surge in water?
This normally does not happen to ANYONE who takes masteron. My friends and the doctor claim I’m broken.
Masteron DOES NOT CONVERT to estrogen, so what happened?
Some of my ideas.
Masteron lowers SHBG. This lowering caused more test, and consequently more estrogen to be released in the system. This estrogen caused the water. But why does it not do this in others? My only answer is PFS makes us super sensitive to it, though my estrogen at this time as a HUGE (sarcastic) 7. Ok, a 7…that is still extremely low, shouldn’t have had the water.
Masteron, being “DHT” being sensed by the body, the body then down regulated 5AR, hence preventing t–>dht conversion, and in turn allowing more t substrate to be converted to estrogen. This I’m not sure of, though again my estrogen was a 7 during this time. I should not have had water weight.
I have also experimented with only using 5mg Masteron dose, the exact same thing happen.
I have no idea why this happens. The doctor doesn’t either, neither do my professional friends in the bb field. This does not happen to anyone, not with masteron. BBers use mast for show prep because it is DRY and lean!! But nope, with me it creates water and bloat. Why? I can only speculate that it is because of PFS.
iv’e been wondering and this is purely speculation, but could it be that you may still have some residual infection left behind… from what i’ve read on the subject, orally delivered medicine loses almost all its potency till the time it reaches the colon (the main site of the yeast infection). and from reading other peoples stories on the subject, one can feel cured and feel good but can still have a substantial mass of yeast left inside of them. its very hard to remove it entirely without specifically targeting the colon with antifungal enemas. some people with severe infections have basically tried everything and failed till they employed the enema protocols
just something that’s been on my mind, and purely my opinion though
Masteron is NOT dht, it's a good copy, it blocks estrogen from muscle, libido and penis, if you are on test consistently with masteron consistently for a month you will have full recovery EXCEPT you will be suppressing your own dht. So your own dht will shut down to when you first crashed from fin, you have to use AI's with masteron.
Masteron isn't something you just randomly inject on and off and get the same result, you have to be on it nonstop for a month with testosterone for a month. Lower test, lower estrogen sides, but ultimately this is my nuclear option. It is better to induce your own dht and recovery with test propionate 10mg a day and Letrozole 2.5mg a day. Even when my estrogen spiked on masteron, it only gave me the horrible emotional and water retention effects, but my libifo, muscles and penis were 200% potent and strong.
Injecting masterone for 1 day or 1 week won't do much at all, injecting it without testosterone will cause your own testosterone to plummet and masteron will do absolutely nothing. FYI, body builders only use masteron with testosterone, no one uses it alone. You can make things work with masteron, but you really only should if for some reason you can't reboot your own dht and 5ar.
If you are randomly injecting masteron while on test propionate, it's going to be like randomly taking finasteride. It causes your own limited dht and 5ar to shut down in response to the exogenous dht and you will go from some dht production to no dht production.
Also you are on a recipe of disaster, aromasin shuts down your own dht as well, aromasin is a steroid which your body recognizes as dht. Taking aromasin is like running on a treadmill going no where, it will keep shutting down your own dht but lower estrogen a little but as your dht shuts down your estrogen will rise. You really are lost, I suggest you read my entire thread as I have been through all of this.
You aren’t broken, you just don’t know what you are doing and when someone suggested you read my thread you said it was too long to read, that’s your problem, you are not educated. You could benifit from my experience and knowledge but instead of taking the time to read you are just posting this stuff. I abandoned masteron as I realized our 5ar and dht can recover fully. Masteron is a last resort and I have seen and see no evidence that anyone will ever require it if they restore their dht and 5ar as I have suggested. So long as you are messing with aromasin and dht you will NEVER recover, you will feel good and bad and good and bad, but you won’t go anywhere.
If you take test without powerful AI’s your estrogen will get high on a neurosteroidal level and shut down your dht and test and nothing will work till you lower it and induce dht.
Hey, thanks for the info. I’m reading through your thread.
I have tried masteron both low dose and large doses, same thing happens.
I also mentioned, that I have tired cycles and cruises with letrozole and aromasin, both separately, and even in tandem.
I have used letrozole only to crush e, and stayed there extended times with 10-15mg test prop daily. It was a horrible feeling as I had all the low sides. What’s your take?
Read my thread from page 3 and on, after you finish reading if you have questions I’ll help you, I’m helping too many people plus have my own life. What has occurred is people are too lazy to read my thread and I come on here just repeating myself.
One of the reasons guys on this forum never respond to hormones is they expect very quick results, they use them incorrectly, and they don’t manage estrogen. Letrozole takes a month to work, masteron takes a month to work, aromasin will set you back to square 1. Masteron works but will set you back to square 1 and you will have to manage the estrogen side for water retention and mood and emotions. I am off masteron and 1 month into my recovery protocol and already am like on a low dose of masteron.
Every time you inject any form of dht you set yourself back, either make a decision to stay on masteron for life or long term or repair your system like I am doing. Tinkering with it will only result in trouble like you are having. It’s why morons on this forum declared that masteron doesn’t work, they are just clueless, and I am nasty towards them because when I first got here I assumed they knew what they were doing. I never tried masteron because of their posts, but using it showed me I don’t have any physical damage. After a month on masteron I was 200% restored and responding to testosterone like a beast.
That’s another discussion, I see no evidence anyone here can’t recover as I am by inducing dht and stimulating 5ar. Masteron should be a last resort and you choose it or need it I will be happy to tell you how to use it correctly. Take testosterone and then use masteron along with it for a month steady not stopping anything. Eventually your body will recognize masteron and use it as its own dht. After a month your libido will go sky high and muscles and dick will work great.
It will shut down your own dht so you will need Letrozole to lower your estrogen, I would try the smallest doses of everything that works. I wouldn’t go down that road though, I would follow my protocol, yes Letrozole is strong, but the idea is that after a couple months or a few months we can taper off it as our dht recovers and switch to arimidex and eventually nothing.
Please read my thread and my experiences and if you decide to use masteron I will tell you how and you can be an experiment. I think after you read my thread you will make the same decision I and everyone else made.
just accept it as a fact that i lost bone in my jaw and cheekbones. its the same as bone-loss due to aging. it looks like this for everyone who is stupid enough to not understand that bone loss if possible. bone is NOT a static system. Bone is being build and broken down always… its a system in motion and not comparible to a dead rock. just look at bone loss due to aging:
accept it now that my jaw has wasted away due to propecia. thank you
@ Mew. Please include jawbone loss in the symptom list already
At this point, with all I have gone through because of this… I don’t doubt you got bone loss. Will it reverse? I doubt it. None of the problems I have show any sign of reversal. I am just stuck trying to adapt to them. I think all you can do for bone loss is a dexa scan for osteoporosis.
Hell why you stucked this jawbone issue? If you can gain your muscles and collagens back, im pretty sure you can take your jawbone back too. There is a false signal/ malfunction/some blockage and causing all shits.
Everyone loses muscle, fat and bone in their face as they age, there is no way to determine if your loss is muscle, fat, or bone, or all 3, or if the bone loss is a result of finasteride. I was in the cosmetic dermatology business, I have detailed knowledge in this field. Cosmetic injections fix it, my face looked completely different when my dht was low and I was in an estrogen dominance state, it could be interpreted as bone loss. When I restored things my face came back to normal, it was muscle loss and water retention which made my face sag and me look different. As I fixed my hormones I look exactly as I did before, in fact I am 34 and people are surprised and think I'm 24, if my estrogen spikes really high I would look totally different.
I'm not saying you haven't lost bone, but just trying to give you some info that might set you at ease a bit
Would you be willing to conduct and experiment for us while you are still messing with Masteron? I have a nuclear option that I designed for theoretical non responders (if such exist), would you be willing to try it? It would completely reverse your condition which you claim to be cured from yet require a PFS protocol to respond to testosterone, that baffles me. I don't think you are recovered, I think you have simply reversed PFS like I have.
That aside, I cannot experiment with this protocol as it will shut me down and bring me back to square 1, since you already are playing with Masteron, I would like to give you a protocol to try. I already experimented with it and know how to make it work 150%, but as I said, I am recovering my system and it would be counter productive to my recovery. The experiment would take about 3 weeks and you would feel amazing, let me know and we will begin. Your work in this experiment could help countless guys on here, even though I believe all guys can recover, it would be nice to have this nuclear option for everyone. I never got a chance to perfect it as I moved onto recovery as soon as I figured all this out.
1, I HAVE used masteron, and listed my experience with it. I will not be using it again because of the challenges with it. Just need to make that clear. I listed it because it does correlate with both yours and my ideas.
2. I do not have PFS symptoms except for brain fog.
3. When on a cycle, I can induce PFS like symptoms. Did you read WHEN ON CYCLE.
4. When off cycle and taking nothing, I’m normal again, except for the brain fog.
5. I don’t consider myself fully recovered as brain fog still remains. I consider myself sexually recovered as that area has not been a problem for years now.
6. I periodically cruise on test prop NOT for PFS. Please read again. I cruise on test prop NOT for PFS. I cruise on it to KEEP MY GAINS - yes very vain I know
7. I have experimented with TONS of gear, far before coming here to report. I’m not a noob just now “playing” with masteron lmao! I’m just reporting now because I’m possibly looking to find others that have ran gear and had PFS to see how the respond and if it’s similar to me.
IHatepropecia- what are the PFS like symptoms specifically that you can induce? Also, did you have thin legs and arms with pot belly, thin skin etc when you first crashed?
Oh yeah lol I totally remember what I looked like. Legs thinned up and had the appearance of skin hanging on them, even my ass was droopy. I was like “WTF!!” - old days man. Arms thinned up too. Also, the shoulders became less cupped, more sloped.
I can induce all the classic PFS symptoms (no libido, ed, fatigue, brain fog, shrunken winky, insomnia, etc.) through cycle manipulation. I can also easily clear them all up through adjusting the cycle as well. This can happen quickly, within in a day.
I would argue that cycle PFS symptoms do not apply to the average PFSer directly. I only bring them up, because if I can cause them and cure them almost instantly during a cycle, that perhaps PFS is nothing but a huge endocrine challenged coupled with a broken component (the unknown factor of PFS). I believe it shows that all “hardware” of the body dose still work when supplied with proper chemicals (the cycle).
I believe through my cycle experience that PFS may just at base be a poor 5ar response in local (important) tissue. Of course, I have know idea if this is true or not.
