I think i had a bad reaction with S. boulardii, partially as a result of leaky gut.
Pretty sure i have leaky gut as i cannot tolerate even simple digestive enzymes such as acidophillus. Gives me really bad skin itching…
does anyone have contact details of ihatepropecia, i seriously need to get in touch with him. phone numer, skype or email whatever. i need to ask him something. thanks 
Hey guys!! I’m Back!!
Well, it has been quite the journey, and yes still have brain fog. As regards PFS, its gone…for the most part. I have discovered how to recreate it, which leads me to believe it was never gone, and since I continued to have some level of brain fog, it never could have been gone fully. I have done tons with steroids test/mast/eq/etc. over the past 18 months, done tons with estrogen control, and have learned a lot!! I have made it where I had no symptoms to where I had PFS again. Luckily, I could make PFS symptoms “go away” when I wanted. I will report my discoveries here in the thread soon.
So why did I come back? Well, PFS is unique, and I’m hear to look for others who may have cycled like me so I can compare experience. Basically, I do not respond “normally” to any cycle and I believe it is because of PFS. I want to speak to others that may also cycle and discuss some ideas.
My main goals are to
- Talk with others who are on TRT, or are running full gear cycles in the scope of PFS.
- Focus on cycle symptoms that seem odd, such as water retention on low dose test prop (10mg/day)
- (Some guys may like this one) - during cycle and estrogen is a 3, why does the body respond as if estrogen was elevated?
These above questions should provide some insight into the direction I would like to take the discussion. I’m not trying to cure PFS, as for the most part I don’t have it, but I still have “parts” if it the linger and become pronounced when on cycle or elevating my testosterone.
Welcome back. You have a lot of catching up to do!
Read: viewtopic.php?f=27&t=9865
That’s the topic du jour.
Thanks man! Perfect timing, but 50 pages! Ouch, I need to condensed version.
JustQuit doesn’t do condensed 
I’d just skim it, you’ll get the idea if you’re already familiar with the concepts.
Wow this is groundbreaking!!! Someone who has improved on a similar protocol of low dose testo with limited ester and AI
are we finally onto something here??
ihatepropecia,
please eleborate on detail how your face changed due to propeica.
basically mine changed asonishingly. My whole jaw has become less prominent. I have lost a layer of bone on my jaw of about 4 millimetres. the same applies to my cheekbones. I asume too, that i have lost muscle in my face, but that less than bone. bone for the most part and also a layer of facial fat (this one is more common on this forum(aka sunken eyes and thin skin). In summary, especially my lower facial structure has become much much smaller due to bone loss in the jaw and cheeks!, muscle loss and fat loss. I look like shit now and people realize too that my face has deteriorated (friends, family).
Please elaborate how your face changed, if it even did at all. If it changed, did some of the tissue and bone regrow during or after your times when you were recovered?
thanks for your honest and considered reply.
That’s for sure lol
More evidence that my theories are correct, now, to the op, I suggest you add Letrozole to your protocol a very low dose unless you are getting by with arimidex? Very good by the way to notice water retention in your face and compensate, that is your reacting to the neurosteriodal estrogen. Not only is this a treatment, but your system in time will recover, I recommend you read my thread, dr Jacobs is rather fascinated by my research and is prescribing my protocol which is pretty much the same as you are taking with an AI added. I’m glad my research is catching on
Hey man,
When I had PFS I was holding significant fat in my face with deposits in the cheeks, neck, jaw, and lower jaw. I believe this may have given that impression of having bone lose, though since I recovered, my face returned to normal, which leads to believe that I did not have bone lose, just fat. Hope this helps.
It isn’t fat, it’s water retention from the high estrogen, also the low dht causes muscle to waste away and shrink. When your dht comes back it kills off estrogen and tightens your face and your facial muscles increase in size and give your face a more masculine and healthy appearance. I was in the business of cosmetic dermatology so am well versed in it, the same thing occurred to me. If I allow my estrogen to get too high it can happen in hours, muscles shrunk and face inflates with water, Letrozole reverses it.
Hey Bro,
I have tired and cycled everything.
I have done full cycles and trt with test prop, cyp, ent, sus, and 250.
I have used all AIs Letro, adex, aromasin, clomid (serm), nolva (serm), raxlo (serm)
I have cycled eq, masteron, primo, NPP, deca, t-bol, anavar, proviron, tren ace (my fav , and winny
If the board hasn’t already, take a look at Faslodex (fulvestrant). It not only occupies the estrogen receptor (serm) but it also down regulates it’s expression. I have not tried this yet.
So with the above, I also have blood labs every 6-8 weeks during all my cycles. I know what my blood has been doing.
- I have used letrozole to bring my estrogen down to 3, normal is roughly 19-30. During this time my test was 815. I still had what appeared as “estrogen” sides - water retention mainly. How is this possible? The test I was using was prop. I tried it with suspension, same thing. The doc and my bb friends could not solve the riddle. I live with it, but I would love to lose the water!!
- During all my cycles, libido was always sky high!! Way higher than normal. I can say that Masteron and sometimes tren ace would elevate it the most, though in general all cycles had high libido.
- All cycles had STRONG WOOD! beyond normal strength and at a drop of a hat. What is weird is the nadrolones (Deca/NPP) which are “progestin” base gave me the strongest wood.
- I have to use tons more AI than any normal builder. I believe this is from PFS.
- I can create PFS systems in my cycles by not using enough test, or by not using enough AI. If I raise the test, PFS symptoms during cycle vanish. I now know my body and test dosing well enough to make symptoms appear and vanish at will. Sometimes if AI is not dosed properly, PFS symptoms can result. I now know my body well enough to adjust ai or test and to what amount to avoid PFS, though “high” estrogen symptoms still are present, mainly water retention.
- When I come off cycle, I’m normal (no PFS) except for the brain fog. I can make brain fog disappear for the most part on cycle with some compounds, mainly EQ, Primo, or Masteron. I noticed that those seems to improve or remove the brain fog the most. Nadrolones (deca/npp) seem to give me more brain fog.
With my above experience I’m inclined to believe that estrogen is of course a key factor in pfs, though I’m not sure if it is the primary factor. How can I have estrogen of 3 and still have “typical” high estrogen sides?
Has any one else cycled and experienced mainly water weight even when estrogen was almost non-existent in your system?
Does any one have any other cycle experience with PFS? What have you experienced?
I can tell you that test cyp and enth (long ester tests) are not as good as prop and suspension with PFS. You’ll here that “test is test” though the ester length does play a factor with conversion to estrogen, shorter the ester less estrogen conversion. I’m sure this is a factor into why trt doesn’t work for PFSers in general. I cruise on prop or suspension and have no PFS symptoms (minus brain fog) except water retention!!
Please share any experience you have with gear, trt, etc. relative to the above, would love to discuss.
I agree. I believe it was water and fat. Also, if estrogen is to high, I noticed one can get a flush face. When I cycle, I keep the AIs very high, but can still develop moon face. When I took Tren ace, my face became extremely chiseled. Also, when taking LGD sarm when not on anything else, my face also become more chiseled. When off cycle, my face returns to it’s normal recovered state. Yes, estrogen has a huge effect on your facial structure.
Why would taking high letrozole, crushing estrogen to almost nothing, still produce some estrogenic sides such as water retention? I believe in those with PFS it will, because in everyone else I know there is NO water especially when using 2.5mg letro daily.
IHP did all forms of test work for you, but prop and suspension work best? Or did the others not work at all?
Also, did you start experimenting with TRT before or after you left the site 2 years ago “recovered”?
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I started experimenting long after recovery. After recovery, I was to nervous and concerned to do anything in fear that I may lose the recovered state. Well, after a while of normalcy, curiosity kicked in.
All test worked, though test prop and suspension worked much better, much less estrogen conversion.
After 8-12 weeks of cyp/ent water would be extremely high. I would have to elevate my AI, and that combination was just not sustainable.
I found the best was low dose, roughly 10-20mg prop or 8-15mg suspension daily worked great! I still ran a low AI. I also experimented with this test dosing and a high AI, which made me feel horrible and lowered my gains, wasn’t having that! This dosing was only for cursing, not blasting (gains). I currently cruise on 70-90mg prop a week with intermittent us of 12.5mg Aromasin. I know my body and I know when I need to raise/lower the test or AI.
Ok gotcha, thanks for the quick reply. Are you comfortable in taking the 70mg or so of propionate per week without HCG to keep your own test pumping? Or is this such a low dose that it’s not necessary?
Yes you said you were using 2.5 letro or arimedex a day… I guess Justquit used letro ou arimedex up to FOUR TIMES a day at the beggining, and now he says he’s having to use less and less. HE even mentioned to start out with only letro for about a week before introducing testosterone into the “final protocol”. So i guess you’ll be trying that very soon right? Besides… how much do you think nutrition helped you out? No more nystatin no more digestive enzymes for ya? I am only asking because I also did think that it had cured me for good but I am still just not totally there yet. So I am very excited about these findings.
So wait, braziliandude, did the IHP nystatin protocol actually work for you? What symptons and by how much? Can you estimate how much % from total are you recovered? I know lot of this is hard to estimate but I’m thinking here that there’s far and few between who have actually done the IHP protocol in it’s proper form - if it actually helped you then I’d like to know how. It could be important.