My (IHP) Full Sexual Recovery from PFS - Story and Regimen

General Discussion
#414

Hey Bro,

I have tired and cycled everything.
I have done full cycles and trt with test prop, cyp, ent, sus, and 250.
I have used all AIs Letro, adex, aromasin, clomid (serm), nolva (serm), raxlo (serm)
I have cycled eq, masteron, primo, NPP, deca, t-bol, anavar, proviron, tren ace (my fav :slight_smile:, and winny

If the board hasn’t already, take a look at Faslodex (fulvestrant). It not only occupies the estrogen receptor (serm) but it also down regulates it’s expression. I have not tried this yet.

So with the above, I also have blood labs every 6-8 weeks during all my cycles. I know what my blood has been doing.

  1. I have used letrozole to bring my estrogen down to 3, normal is roughly 19-30. During this time my test was 815. I still had what appeared as “estrogen” sides - water retention mainly. How is this possible? The test I was using was prop. I tried it with suspension, same thing. The doc and my bb friends could not solve the riddle. I live with it, but I would love to lose the water!!
  2. During all my cycles, libido was always sky high!! Way higher than normal. I can say that Masteron and sometimes tren ace would elevate it the most, though in general all cycles had high libido.
  3. All cycles had STRONG WOOD! beyond normal strength and at a drop of a hat. What is weird is the nadrolones (Deca/NPP) which are “progestin” base gave me the strongest wood.
  4. I have to use tons more AI than any normal builder. I believe this is from PFS.
  5. I can create PFS systems in my cycles by not using enough test, or by not using enough AI. If I raise the test, PFS symptoms during cycle vanish. I now know my body and test dosing well enough to make symptoms appear and vanish at will. Sometimes if AI is not dosed properly, PFS symptoms can result. I now know my body well enough to adjust ai or test and to what amount to avoid PFS, though “high” estrogen symptoms still are present, mainly water retention.
  6. When I come off cycle, I’m normal (no PFS) except for the brain fog. I can make brain fog disappear for the most part on cycle with some compounds, mainly EQ, Primo, or Masteron. I noticed that those seems to improve or remove the brain fog the most. Nadrolones (deca/npp) seem to give me more brain fog.

With my above experience I’m inclined to believe that estrogen is of course a key factor in pfs, though I’m not sure if it is the primary factor. How can I have estrogen of 3 and still have “typical” high estrogen sides?

Has any one else cycled and experienced mainly water weight even when estrogen was almost non-existent in your system?

Does any one have any other cycle experience with PFS? What have you experienced?

I can tell you that test cyp and enth (long ester tests) are not as good as prop and suspension with PFS. You’ll here that “test is test” though the ester length does play a factor with conversion to estrogen, shorter the ester less estrogen conversion. I’m sure this is a factor into why trt doesn’t work for PFSers in general. I cruise on prop or suspension and have no PFS symptoms (minus brain fog) except water retention!!

Please share any experience you have with gear, trt, etc. relative to the above, would love to discuss.

#415

I agree. I believe it was water and fat. Also, if estrogen is to high, I noticed one can get a flush face. When I cycle, I keep the AIs very high, but can still develop moon face. When I took Tren ace, my face became extremely chiseled. Also, when taking LGD sarm when not on anything else, my face also become more chiseled. When off cycle, my face returns to it’s normal recovered state. Yes, estrogen has a huge effect on your facial structure.

Why would taking high letrozole, crushing estrogen to almost nothing, still produce some estrogenic sides such as water retention? I believe in those with PFS it will, because in everyone else I know there is NO water especially when using 2.5mg letro daily.

#416

IHP did all forms of test work for you, but prop and suspension work best? Or did the others not work at all?

Also, did you start experimenting with TRT before or after you left the site 2 years ago “recovered”?

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#417

I started experimenting long after recovery. After recovery, I was to nervous and concerned to do anything in fear that I may lose the recovered state. Well, after a while of normalcy, curiosity kicked in.

All test worked, though test prop and suspension worked much better, much less estrogen conversion.
After 8-12 weeks of cyp/ent water would be extremely high. I would have to elevate my AI, and that combination was just not sustainable.

I found the best was low dose, roughly 10-20mg prop or 8-15mg suspension daily worked great! I still ran a low AI. I also experimented with this test dosing and a high AI, which made me feel horrible and lowered my gains, wasn’t having that! This dosing was only for cursing, not blasting (gains). I currently cruise on 70-90mg prop a week with intermittent us of 12.5mg Aromasin. I know my body and I know when I need to raise/lower the test or AI.

#418

Ok gotcha, thanks for the quick reply. Are you comfortable in taking the 70mg or so of propionate per week without HCG to keep your own test pumping? Or is this such a low dose that it’s not necessary?

#419

Yes you said you were using 2.5 letro or arimedex a day… I guess Justquit used letro ou arimedex up to FOUR TIMES a day at the beggining, and now he says he’s having to use less and less. HE even mentioned to start out with only letro for about a week before introducing testosterone into the “final protocol”. So i guess you’ll be trying that very soon right? Besides… how much do you think nutrition helped you out? No more nystatin no more digestive enzymes for ya? I am only asking because I also did think that it had cured me for good but I am still just not totally there yet. So I am very excited about these findings.

#420

So wait, braziliandude, did the IHP nystatin protocol actually work for you? What symptons and by how much? Can you estimate how much % from total are you recovered? I know lot of this is hard to estimate but I’m thinking here that there’s far and few between who have actually done the IHP protocol in it’s proper form - if it actually helped you then I’d like to know how. It could be important.

#421

Hey there,

My previous nystatin/herbs/etc. protocol is what recovered my around the end of 2011. This is still my normal state - recovered. I went roughly 18months with nothing, and stayed recovered. It was after this 18months post recovery that I started cycling. I’m still recovered, though when on cycle I can induce PFS symptoms very easily through cycle manipulation. Also, when on cycle I do NOT respond to the compounds in a normal fashion compared to others, and I believe this is because of once having PFS.

When off cycle, I go back to normally recovery, so I never lost anything. I’m still recovered, though I’m hear to try and find others that cycle and experience the same things that I have, which as I mentioned, I believe are from PFS.

I was stacking Letrozole, Aromasin, and Nolva. I used just Letrzole, I used just Aromasin. I have tried multiple combinations. I have not taking 2.5mg Letrzole 4 times day lol. That’s pretty funny actually. Though I can say with some conclusiveness, that yes estrogen is a key factor, though hesitant to claim that letro 2.5mg daily with t prop 10mg daily will cure PFS. I have cruised on test prop at 10mg daily, 20mg eod, 20mg daily, I have tired quite a bit. I do believe that 10mg t prop daily with some e control will GREATLY improve the PFS state…though recovery…uhh no so sure about that.

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#422

Hi!

I had planned to begin following your and Chi’s protocol early next spring. Now I do not know if I should try it or not.

Although I had similar symptoms as you and a big problem for me besides the sexual is my bloated belly.

Thanks for coming back and update us.

#423

Masteron Experience

Here is the kicker - We all know Masteron is “DHT” (not technically, but for all intensive purposes will say it’s very close to DHT). I can tell you when on a simple cycle of just test and adding masteron, bad stuff happens.

Here is one example.

  1. Cruising on test prop 10mg daily, Aromasin 12.5mg eod - this was working great.
    added in VERY low dose 30mg Masteron (building doses are 200mg+ eod) one Friday with my test injection - BAM! Felt awesome!
    libido through the rough! Mental acumen recovered fully, NO BRAIN fog. 2 days later - HUGE water retention, mental clarity gone, back to normal brain fog, libido still high. A week later, libido back to normal, brain fog normal, HUGE water weight and bloat.

What happen?

  1. Was the first day of injection great because of the nice influx of “DHT” (masteron)? Probably.
  2. If so, why did this compound, Masteron, know for lean DRY gain cause a HUGE surge in water?
    This normally does not happen to ANYONE who takes masteron. My friends and the doctor claim I’m broken.
  3. Masteron DOES NOT CONVERT to estrogen, so what happened?

Some of my ideas.

  1. Masteron lowers SHBG. This lowering caused more test, and consequently more estrogen to be released in the system. This estrogen caused the water. But why does it not do this in others? My only answer is PFS makes us super sensitive to it, though my estrogen at this time as a HUGE (sarcastic) 7. Ok, a 7…that is still extremely low, shouldn’t have had the water.
  2. Masteron, being “DHT” being sensed by the body, the body then down regulated 5AR, hence preventing t–>dht conversion, and in turn allowing more t substrate to be converted to estrogen. This I’m not sure of, though again my estrogen was a 7 during this time. I should not have had water weight.

I have also experimented with only using 5mg Masteron dose, the exact same thing happen.

I have no idea why this happens. The doctor doesn’t either, neither do my professional friends in the bb field. This does not happen to anyone, not with masteron. BBers use mast for show prep because it is DRY and lean!! But nope, with me it creates water and bloat. Why? I can only speculate that it is because of PFS.

#424

This is in line with what JQD has been saying about Masteron being suppressive of your own DHT and T. You should talk with him.

#425

hello ihp,

first off ty for all your contributions

iv’e been wondering and this is purely speculation, but could it be that you may still have some residual infection left behind… from what i’ve read on the subject, orally delivered medicine loses almost all its potency till the time it reaches the colon (the main site of the yeast infection). and from reading other peoples stories on the subject, one can feel cured and feel good but can still have a substantial mass of yeast left inside of them. its very hard to remove it entirely without specifically targeting the colon with antifungal enemas. some people with severe infections have basically tried everything and failed till they employed the enema protocols

just something that’s been on my mind, and purely my opinion though

#426 
 Masteron is NOT dht, it's a good copy, it blocks estrogen from muscle, libido and penis, if you are on test consistently with masteron consistently for a month you will have full recovery EXCEPT you will be suppressing your own dht. So your own dht will shut down to when you first crashed from fin, you have to use AI's with masteron. 
 Masteron isn't something you just randomly inject on and off and get the same result, you have to be on it nonstop for a month with testosterone for a month. Lower test, lower estrogen sides, but ultimately this is my nuclear option. It is better to induce your own dht and recovery with test propionate 10mg a day and Letrozole 2.5mg a day. Even when my estrogen spiked on masteron, it only gave me the horrible emotional and water retention effects, but my libifo, muscles and penis were 200% potent and strong.
 Injecting masterone for 1 day or 1 week won't do much at all, injecting it without testosterone will cause your own testosterone to plummet and masteron will do absolutely nothing. FYI, body builders only use masteron with testosterone, no one uses it alone. You can make things work with masteron, but you really only should if for some reason you can't reboot your own dht and 5ar.
If you are randomly injecting masteron while on test propionate, it's going to be like randomly taking finasteride. It causes your own limited dht and 5ar to shut down in response to the exogenous dht and you will go from some dht production to no dht production.
Also you are on a recipe of disaster, aromasin shuts down your own dht as well, aromasin is a steroid which your body recognizes as dht. Taking aromasin is like running on a treadmill going no where, it will keep shutting down your own dht but lower estrogen a little but as your dht shuts down your estrogen will rise. You really are lost, I suggest you read my entire thread as I have been through all of this.

You aren’t broken, you just don’t know what you are doing and when someone suggested you read my thread you said it was too long to read, that’s your problem, you are not educated. You could benifit from my experience and knowledge but instead of taking the time to read you are just posting this stuff. I abandoned masteron as I realized our 5ar and dht can recover fully. Masteron is a last resort and I have seen and see no evidence that anyone will ever require it if they restore their dht and 5ar as I have suggested. So long as you are messing with aromasin and dht you will NEVER recover, you will feel good and bad and good and bad, but you won’t go anywhere.
If you take test without powerful AI’s your estrogen will get high on a neurosteroidal level and shut down your dht and test and nothing will work till you lower it and induce dht.

#427

Hey, thanks for the info. I’m reading through your thread.

I have tried masteron both low dose and large doses, same thing happens.
I also mentioned, that I have tired cycles and cruises with letrozole and aromasin, both separately, and even in tandem.

I have used letrozole only to crush e, and stayed there extended times with 10-15mg test prop daily. It was a horrible feeling as I had all the low sides. What’s your take?

#428

Read my thread from page 3 and on, after you finish reading if you have questions I’ll help you, I’m helping too many people plus have my own life. What has occurred is people are too lazy to read my thread and I come on here just repeating myself.
One of the reasons guys on this forum never respond to hormones is they expect very quick results, they use them incorrectly, and they don’t manage estrogen. Letrozole takes a month to work, masteron takes a month to work, aromasin will set you back to square 1. Masteron works but will set you back to square 1 and you will have to manage the estrogen side for water retention and mood and emotions. I am off masteron and 1 month into my recovery protocol and already am like on a low dose of masteron.
Every time you inject any form of dht you set yourself back, either make a decision to stay on masteron for life or long term or repair your system like I am doing. Tinkering with it will only result in trouble like you are having. It’s why morons on this forum declared that masteron doesn’t work, they are just clueless, and I am nasty towards them because when I first got here I assumed they knew what they were doing. I never tried masteron because of their posts, but using it showed me I don’t have any physical damage. After a month on masteron I was 200% restored and responding to testosterone like a beast.
That’s another discussion, I see no evidence anyone here can’t recover as I am by inducing dht and stimulating 5ar. Masteron should be a last resort and you choose it or need it I will be happy to tell you how to use it correctly. Take testosterone and then use masteron along with it for a month steady not stopping anything. Eventually your body will recognize masteron and use it as its own dht. After a month your libido will go sky high and muscles and dick will work great.
It will shut down your own dht so you will need Letrozole to lower your estrogen, I would try the smallest doses of everything that works. I wouldn’t go down that road though, I would follow my protocol, yes Letrozole is strong, but the idea is that after a couple months or a few months we can taper off it as our dht recovers and switch to arimidex and eventually nothing.
Please read my thread and my experiences and if you decide to use masteron I will tell you how and you can be an experiment. I think after you read my thread you will make the same decision I and everyone else made.

#429

just accept it as a fact that i lost bone in my jaw and cheekbones. its the same as bone-loss due to aging. it looks like this for everyone who is stupid enough to not understand that bone loss if possible. bone is NOT a static system. Bone is being build and broken down always… its a system in motion and not comparible to a dead rock. just look at bone loss due to aging:

accept it now that my jaw has wasted away due to propecia. thank you

@ Mew. Please include jawbone loss in the symptom list already

#430

At this point, with all I have gone through because of this… I don’t doubt you got bone loss. Will it reverse? I doubt it. None of the problems I have show any sign of reversal. I am just stuck trying to adapt to them. I think all you can do for bone loss is a dexa scan for osteoporosis.

Nota in a year from now… :open_mouth:

#431

Pic looks like fat loss for sure

#432

Hell why you stucked this jawbone issue? If you can gain your muscles and collagens back, im pretty sure you can take your jawbone back too. There is a false signal/ malfunction/some blockage and causing all shits.

#433 
Everyone loses muscle, fat and bone in their face as they age, there is no way to determine if your loss is muscle, fat, or bone, or all 3, or if the bone loss is a result of finasteride. I was in the cosmetic dermatology business, I have detailed knowledge in this field. Cosmetic injections fix it, my face looked completely different when my dht was low and I was in an estrogen dominance state, it could be interpreted as bone loss. When I restored things my face came back to normal, it was muscle loss and water retention which made my face sag and me look different. As I fixed my hormones I look exactly as I did before, in fact I am 34 and people are surprised and think I'm 24, if my estrogen spikes really high I would look totally different. 
I'm not saying you haven't lost bone, but just trying to give you some info that might set you at ease a bit