Now, does this mean that you have zero pain in the perineum? And no ball discomfort? See I have no problem maintaining and erection, only really had that problem for like 2-3 weeks after quitting, it’s when the perineum pain set in that I really started freaking. The broccoli thing is helping, however discomfort when I sit for long periods is still there.
Also, I was able to last the longest when I was hardcore into the drug in my mid 20’s and I know that might sound odd. But it does make sense if you still have high testosterone (get the erection yet a lessened sexual desire, etc. It was somewhat great because I’d go hours without blowing my load. Now, I am back to the good old, way I was in high school, etc. to when the vag feels tight and good I blow my load. Also, my load went from watery while on the drug, to way too thick I feel after. It’s like silly puddy some times.
Congrats though if you are 100% hope to be there someday.
To be honest I never really had any pain in my perineum to begin with, the only pain I ever had was testicular, which probably felt the strongest while I was on the drug but still persisted from time to time after I stopped taking it.
As for spontaneous erections yes I do get them, I yet again feel compelled to touch myself if I’m laying down on a couch alone in a room as I’m pretty sure any normal man in the world does. I even get turned on if I see hot chicks on TV in a bikini or something (usually really hot model kinda chicks). Sexual desire is back and so is my erectile capability. I’ll have mild fits of silent anger if I haven’t gotten laid in a while.
I can last as long as I ever did, and a good orgasm does feel mind-shattering just as it should.
I take back what I said about the penis size, it’s as big as it ever was. Especially when filled with a good amount of blood.
And now that school’s off I feel less stressed out than ever and it feels great.
Thats great man. It really is! Thats how it should be too. You described things to a T !!!
Good job man!! Enjoy the holidays now! And dont get into too much trouble, chasing pussy!
First of all, congrats for your recovery. Second, I have some few simple straight questions:
How long were you on propecia?
For how long did you suffer from side effects?
What were ALL of these sides? Were they mild or severe?
MOST IMPORTANT, what was your recovery method? Please be as specific as possible.
Congrats again, I have been off that poison for four years and three months and I still have sides. To be truth, I have recovered from a lot of side effects (brain fog, dizziness, stuffed nose, curved penis, low hanging testicles, etc.) but the sexual sides are still with me, yet they have improved over time. Thanks for your response.
I was only on propecia irregularly for about 2 weeks worth of pills. I took it for one week straight 1mg daily and started getting testicular pains which then rapidly turned into impotence. It was a tragic experience. While still on the pills I just didn’t get any sexual thought, absolutely no nighttime erections. So I quit taking the pills, but thinking I might still be able to thicken up the mop while dodging the side effects, I started taking the pills again one every other day after the two weeks it took me to recover (to a point higher than before finasteride). Even at the lower dosage I still got the side effects again, I even tried lowering the dosage to half a pill every other day, to no avail.
After the second and final time that I quit I bounced back to feeling ok for a bit, but not as good as the first time I quit. Soon after things just went down the drain for me pretty much. I was in denial for a long time believing it was impossible for me to still have side effects after quitting the drug. I really pretended to be alright, trying to persuade myself that something this bad couldn’t happen to me at the age of 19. The funny thing about this time period, is (believe it or not) that being fucked up like this made it easier to have girls like me. Since my innate sexual urges were non-existent, I would never get anxious or nervous around women, since there was already nothing positive that I could expect out of the encounter. Well who can resist a calm yet confident, finasteride-zombie anyways?
It gets to the point where I’m having sex with this chick and my shit’s not working. It sucked but I did my best with my fingers to not leave her unsatisfied. Keep in mind this is taking place about 2 or so months after I quit. I started regularly visiting this site around then. Soon after I got blood tests drawn, my T wasn’t as low as some of the other guys on the forum, but it was still low. Somewhere in the lower half of the 500s. At the same time progesterone was 3 times the top of the physiological range. Things were not right. I was very, very slowly recovering on my own and sometimes it felt like I wasn’t recovering at all. I read about Dr. Crisler here, so I thought I might as well check out the popular bodybuilding forum he runs, anabolicminds.com. It’s full of a bunch of guys who know a whole lot about funky hormone levels because of steroid use and whatnot, they helped me out a lot!
Oh and by this time I had tried, and still pretty much own an unfinished bottle of just about any supplement, herb, or vitamin you can imagine. I read about steroid-using guys using dermacrine sustain which has it’s main ingredient as resveratrol for post-cycle therapy. It definitely seemed like a powerful product capable of normalizing hormone levels, and men were posting that this stuff is just as good as, if not better, than meds like clomid or nolvadex. The stuff takes a while to work tho, I had to take it for a month to start feeling anything, I only started feeling confidently normal around the time of the 3rd bottle. I also took some things like multi-vitamins, ginseng, ginko biloba, Reset AD (adrenal formula with pregnenolone and bovine adrenal gland as ingredients). For a little while I also took a bottle’s worth of tanalbit just in case a candida infection had anything to do with it, I did this while discontinuing every other oral supplement). I took paravol for a while, but I wouldn’t recommend it anymore since it is a pretty weak product with dosages that are too low. I would recommend a product called Diesel Test:
Notice how it says “AKA Grande Bolas” haha. I will definitely have to order a bottle of the stuff and see for myself how it is. I’m sure that after about 3-4 months of using this stuff combined with dermacrine sustain you just might become invincible. It is also reportedly safe for everyone. Increasing natural testosterone levels has been great for me. I am stronger with improvements in muscle fullness and vascularity, along with a strange tanning effect which has my skin looking pretty nice compared to everyone else who has become completely pale because of the winter. But then again I was fucked up pale looking with bags under my eyes while suffering from impotence, even with a decent summer tan I still had bags under my eyes, though less visible.
As of now I am definitely capable of busting a nut at least 3 times within 5 hours, without losing much or any of the hardness for each session, and thats only with whacking off (which I was only doing for testing purposes of course ).
I really hate to sort of sound like an infomercial for these products, but without them I might still not be able to get hard. All in all it was a massive lesson in how fickle and frail life is and absolutely not to take anything for granted, as well as to make use of what you have in life as much as possible. I still feel like I might need help recovering from the sheer psychological shock this whole 8-month ordeal has given me. I really feel like I need to go out and have sex with multiple women to make up for lost time. The fact that my balls are continuing to get physically larger doesn’t hurt at all. I plan to take advantage of this extra amount of testosterone by working out and adding 10-15 pounds of lean muscle on myself.
So it sounds like you started suffering around the same time, or shortly thereafter, as I did (last Febuary)…
So, you were impotent and in denial for about 2 months.
Then for about 5-6 months you were taking the supplements, and it took you about 2-3 months on Dermacrine Sustain??
So, if you had to recommend (and great job on the detail and explanation already above btw) a simple protocol, such as :
DAILY
-one once daily Men’s Multi-vitamin from New Cahpter Organics.
-three Dermacrine Sustain pills
-one 45mg zinc tablet
and
-1,000 extra mg of Vitamin C
Along with increased exercise, and plenty of water.
Btw, I think Mew is onto something with his latest finding…
…something I’ve suspected also all along (do ya’ll recall I kept using the expression, “to pump up your prostate again”) propeciahelp.com/forum/viewt … =4796#4796
I think we may be on to something guys!!
Mew, what are your thoughts now on re-vascularizing??
Come on man… go out on a limb here, its Christmas!!
Dermacrine sustain is a topical product, not in pills. It absorbs through your skin and bypasses your whole GI tract, it also has a “side-effect” of making your skin a little darker colored, not the same as a full-blown tan, but enough to add a touch of sexiness.
I highly recommend taking diesel test as well, 6 times a day at 3 different intervals if you can.
Things are seriously going great though, I’m physically stronger, I feel like I’m more energized and confident than ever before, not only that but I find myself obsessing over girls like I’m in high school all over again. But of course I know what I’m doing way better than when I was in high school so I’ve already gained some admirers, even ones that have boyfriends haha.
In all honesty, I think you over-emphasize the prostate boston. I feel that there is just a persisting imbalance within our endocrine systems not unlike what happens to anabolic steroid users once they come off cycle. A fucked up prostate could be a side-effect, and your immune system does get compromised.
Looks like Primordial Performance have updated dermacrine sustain and changed the name of the product to sustain alpha, with an updated list of ingredients to go along with it.
I will have to try out the new and improved formula. They also have a new product that claims to be clinically proven to regrow hair while at the same time improving libido with a vitamin E complex. Seeing as how effective dermacrine sustain was I will have to try this stuff out. If this stuff works in improving my libido even further as well as stopping hair loss I will have come to the conclusion that whoever is running this company must have sold their soul to the devil.
Here’s some info on the changes for the new Sustain Alpha formula:
If you’re better why are you still taking the Dermacrine Sustain? What would happen if you stop taking it? I mean surely after a month or so of not taking it you’re testosterone levels would fall and things could go back to square one. Maybe you should see.
I stopped using it for a whole month without losing any progress in libido gains. Not only that but I’ve gone for like 1 or 2 weeks at a time without using with no effect whatsoever. Eventually I will see how things are without using the product, but I will have to try the new and improved alpha sustain formula first. I am 99% positive that I will not go back to how I was before using the product though. Just because this isn’t the sort of thing you build a tolerance to like the dopamine boosting protocol someone else posted earlier. Sustain actually has stuff in it to make your nuts have more FSH receptors to make more testosterone. I think that might be a huge thing and I have a hunch that androgen receptor sensitivity is a huge factor in our problems for a lot of us here. Think about it… you take out DHT from your body for a while, so your receptors get more sensitive to it since theres less of it. When you stop taking the drugs it all rushes back and I would think that it has a negative impact on receptor sensitivity.
Even with adaptogenic things like ginseng though, it is recommended to take breaks from it here and there to get the most benefit out of it. So I will have to at least take a break eventually, but I’ve got loads of the stuff left.
I just started my third bottle of Dermacrine Sustain (not Alpha). First month of Sustain I felt some good responses at times but not nearly as consistent or often as I’d hoped. The entire second bottle, though, I felt bottomed out. Got my results back with high E2 levels and decided an aromatase inhibitor (AI) would be my course. I wanted my endo to prescribe me Arimidex as a backup final option, which he didn’t, but in the meantime I had begun Rebound XT, which is a semi-powerful natural AI used by bodybuilders.
Began Sunday night with it along with ZMA tabs – 1 Rebound XT in the morning/afternoon and two at night plus 3 tabs of ZMA, since Estradiol activity is supposedly at it peak during sleeping hours. By Wednesday evening my mood improved dramatically. Libido has made some mild strides, but it’s definitely a start. I’m definitely staying cautious about being on the way to recovery, but I thought some others might like to at least read some positive signs and reports.
Thanks for the update guys, and please continue to keep us updated.
Big Softie, I have read all your reports with much interest. I’m planning on getting both the Sustain Alpha and Diesel Test Hardcore once I get blood tests taken. I’ve also started to taking a multivitamin, fish oil, and working out 3x a week. I hope I can save myself.
Definitely suggest at least the Sustain products (though only after an initial blood sample has been taken for a clear picture of where you are), since its primary function is to boost T levels without doing too much meddling otherwise. After that it may then be a matter of ‘tuning’ at least one of the other levels like it appears to be with me. The guys over at the hypogonadism2 yahoo group who are on Testosterone replacement therapy (TRT) have to closely monitor Estradiol (E2) levels and control them, because they are continuously introducing Testoterone into their bodies and its conversion to Estradiol is happening as quickly as it has the materials available to do so. I think for us our T levels are either slowly climbing or get stuck in neutral after quitting fin because some of these other levels were allowed to become predominant. Anyway, thissucks or anyone else, your blood tests will tell you more.
If you haven’t registered with the yahoo group yet, I suggest that you do. And I’ll repeat what Softie said somewhere and insist that you have a wander through some of the bodybuilding forums like anabolicminds, because steroid users are constantly having to monitor and balance T and other hormone levels, and we are suffering from so many of the symptoms and problems that they have to – and more importantly, expect to – deal with if they don’t plan an effective post (steroid)cycle therapy.
I should also add that last night I awoke with my first nocturnal erection in a few months (since that initial, short-lived Sustain boost), and one of only a few in the last year. Everything down there (shaft, etc) looks more normal today than they have in ages. Not completely normal, but certainly midway.
Sorry Softie if I’m railroading this thread a little, but this seems like good place to add a little support of what I was saying about other levels from the yahoo group. The following are a few excerpts I cut and pasted from a thread I started over there about my blood test results. pmgamer18 is one of the mods, who has been very helpful and has personal experience with treatments (although he apparently does not have a comma button on his keyboard, so I sometimes have to read his posts two or three times):
pmgamer18:
Your Estradiol is very high in the units we use in the US your at 74
pg/ml youshould be below 40 between 10 to 30 for some best at 20.
This by it's self will lower your Testosterone your brain can't tell the
difference between theTestosterone and Estradiol so if Estradiol is
very high your brain thinks it's Testosterone. I would get on some
Arimidex doing .5mgs every otherday then retest in 4 to 6 weeks.
Here is a link about this it's about older men but happens to any age.
[jcem.endojournals.org/cgi/content/full/89/3/1174](http://jcem.endojournals.org/cgi/content/full/89/3/1174)
You just might luck out and find your Testosterone levels will come
back up. Bottom line you need to find out why your levels are low
before going on T meds.
Another poster:
I have a question. Without proper E2 management, could TRT do more
harm thangood? Remember when I was taking those monthly shots? A
large amount of testosterone was introduced into my body which was
later subjected to aromatase that later converted into E2 doing me as
much harm as good.
I know there's been talk in the forum on the subject but I'm beginning
to believe that yes, the two are equally important. With TRT should
come E2 management as well. I know it is necessary but I hadn't
considered placing as much emphasis on it until recently. When we
speak of TRT we should also speak of E2 management.
pmgamer18:
Yes E2 is just as much needed in testing and treatment as T even now
in the first round of tests Dr. need to check E2 because if it's high it
shuts down the Pituitary from sending LH to the testis to make T and
just getting the E2 down the testis make T again. So if a Dr. tests a
man and only tests his TT, FT, LH and FSH not testing E2. The mans
levels can come back low on TT,FT,LH and FSH and the Dr. would think
it's a Pituitary problem but it can be his E2 is to high. The brain can't
tell the difference between E2 and T so when it sees E2 high it thinks
it's T and stops sending the LH message to the Testis to make more
Testosterone.
Anyway, since even Dermacrine Sustain can stimulate Testosterone production, the implications are the same: more T = more E2 for many people. I think, therefore, like these guys, that E2 is an absolutely vital part of any test, along with things like Total and Free T. I emphasize it more frantically, though, because it might be one of the least understood and most overlooked for our conditions, which means you might have to be really insistent with docs about even getting it tested. If they refuse to test it then go elsewhere.
Hey Quint, your contributions are well appreciated. If you look at my blood tests from earlier you can see that my Estradiol levels weren’t really too high to begin with (maybe just a small, small bit too high). I think for me it was more of a high progesterone level which was probably able to be corrected by boosting up T production. Mew has said earlier that one should be careful about jumping on a bandwagon for a certain treatment but I recommend sustain because it pretty much has no side effects whatsoever, and I don’t think it’s as strong as some other estrogen inhibiting things because they make a point that it doesn’t reduce estrogen by too much (which, believe it or not can be a problem for some men). I’ve been thinking of starting to take garlic and ZMA just to try to give me a bit more of a boost in T, and I hear it’s good for your health anyways.
As for Diesel Test Hardcore, this is another natural supplement product with all herbs and stuff in it so I’m pretty sure it doesn’t have any side effects either. The stuff is also supposed to optimize cortisol, DHT, and prolactin levels so I would imagine it helps you in ways that Sustain doesn’t. As much as we worry about DHT because of the fact that we took finasteride, I think it still needs to be controlled, possibly more than ever for some people (like myself) because of the rebound after quitting fin (my DHT levels were off the charts). The same goes for Reset AD which helps optimize the adrenal glands.
I think it is definitely important to remember that a lot of us on here are pretty different even if we experience the same things and we have a wide assortment of different hormonal imbalances. So it is definitely important to get yourself tested out and see where the problem lies, and then try throwing some natural supplements at the problem for a couple months before resorting to potentially toxic prescription drugs.
Yeah, I’m definitely interested in lowering my DHT eventually since mine was also well above the range limit, although it was not a priority. I can’t even say that I have a real understanding of how DHT functions at high or low levels. The estradiol was my first concern, and I think I’ve done that (or else there’s a major coincidence taking place with my hormones).
I’m not able to return the two bottles of Diesel Test 2040 because I’ll be out of country, but I did order one of the Hardcore version, so I’m looking forward to that (and it should help with DHT), plus my two bottles of Sustain Alpha arrived today(!). Anxious to try it out.
Just make sure you get in a decent amount of exercise to go along with the diesel 2040, I’m no expert on creatine but I’m thinking you might not want to let it build up in your blood and put it to work on your muscles.
Man the more I’m feeling normal the more I’m starting to care about how my hair looks again, still though the lesson learned has been important and I do see that there are more important things in life.
).