My experiences on Creatine - Good & unknown bad sides?


#1

Hello!
I “revived” this topic with the meaning of bringing more attention to creatine monohydrate and to it’s possible effects. It would be good to investigate what it does exactly as i have felt EXTREMELY good sides on it.

I’m joined here recently after a month of evasive reading. My story can be found in the Stories-section: http://www.propeciahelp.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=4823.
Recently, my symptons i fear the most have got worse - shrinking of penis and testicles. I don’t have too many tools to fight against the changes for now so instead i focus on the supplement i found useful but have become too dependant upon - which i consider to be a bad thing since the mechanism and possible effects of creatine are unknown.

Following Enden’s theory on recovery at the beginning of this PFS, we devised that we wanted to avoid the symptons of secondary hypogonadism by getting DHT over the estrogen. This is when Enden suggested having a trial with creatine monohydrate, based on a single study.
Creatine monohydrate is a supplement used commonly by bodybuilders for it’s beneficial effects to muscle training with seemingly no side-effects, usually applied by a week of overloading followed with an time of daily maintenance dosage that varies between individual to individual (as in varies between practise). Creatine can cause diarhea, cramps or even stress to liver if it’s not taken with a large amount of water. Here is what is said about it’s effects to DHT - i suggest reading that and other related links in this site. I think a lot of you are familiar with this study. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19741313

Unfortunately, i have yet to complete understand and study the material provided in this site but to cite the FAQ, due to the inhibiting effect of finasteride’s toType II 5 alpha-reductase, the DHT production suffers in the individual. Especially the genital area oftentimes suffers from the halved production of DHT, hence shrinking, pains, infertility and numerous other issues.

When i was on creatine, i apparently took a larger-than-usual dosage of creatine monohydrate, propably around 35mg. I can say that i felt great benefits from it. Let me quote a part of my story:

The benefitting effects lasted about a month and a week i think. Two weeks before the end of this “maintenance” period (i didn’t take any of creatine during it of course) the old symtons were returning as expected: shrinking of penis being the most notable. Howvever, the amount of my ejaculation was also dropping to half! Which was unexpected and made my desperate. There is also a lot of other sympton rollercoaster related to this period - especially the new symptons that appeared at the end & after the second monohydrate round were interesting.

And like i mentioned above: due to my shrinking penis and other terrible symtons, i tried a second round with creatine monohydrate. This time around, however, i started taking the right dosage of 25mg (5 teaspoons) for almost the entire duration of that week.
Once again, it worked out the midweek on as i expected - one morning i even woke up with a raging morning wood!
However, this is where things got comlicated. My penis was quite shrink when i finally took creatine. It did increase in size really soon but i observed that it hadn’t returned to the size it was during the first creatine week…? It was almost a quarter smaller in all ways, thinner you could say. There was a small pain in the right side of my lower stomach which i didn’t think was important for couple days at the end of the creatine.

My sexuality wasn’t improving quite as fast as my penis - in fact, it was ceasing even during the treatment. At the end of it new symtons appeared:

We speculated between Enden that the symptons could have been either low or high estrogen - which is why i finally tried to get my hormones mapped for the first time. I’m getting them mapped next Thursday.

Unlike the first time with creatine, my condition didn’t stay stabile for a month but instead started to decline quickly after a week i used creatine, at February 7th. Even the penis was shrinking again and my testicles felt uncomfortable. My left nipple became sensitive for a long time, now it’s fine.
This is when i first experienced the symptons of adrenaline fatigue - there was eye-sight problems around then and even before but i never made a connection that it could be adrenal fatigue especially induced by cafeine. Some of the eyesight problems must be hormonal changes though i guess. I am currently studying the issue and cutting cafeine altogether along with minimizing high gluteine stuff the best i can.
Arousal and erections became possible in a week albeit it was difficult but it improved gradually from there. The quality of my ejaculation is actually pretty good right now which makes the symptons even more confusing.
However, thorough all this time my morning erections have been disapearing. They are almost gone now.

I am currently reading through all the creatine posts in this forum. It seems this place was more interested of it back in 2009 and 2010 summer. I’ll continue my story, questions and ponders once the topic gets approved.


#2

Hey mate

As you’re probably aware it was me who referred Enden to this study.

Anyway, there’s a few issues here.

Firstly, that study is limited for several reasons. We’ve no idea if the increased DHT levels can sustain. Likely not. And if that did, due to negative feedback mechanism your testosterone might be negatively affected over a longer stretch.

Secondly, it’s not necessarily the case that your DHT levels are even low in the first place so why take creatine to increase your DHT without bloods, first?

Thirdly, the test is on healthy males not PFS sufferers.

It’s interesting and worth experiment for sure hence why i noted it over in that forum, but i don’t think supplementing DHT in any manner is likely to be a long term (or any) real solution.

Not to mention creatine is associated with kidney failure so i wouldn’t be comfortable taking large doses for sustained periods nor would i recommend taking these doses without loads of water!


#3

That is EXACTLY the point i was going to bring. Introducing more DHT might have brought more (Type II?) 5 alpha-reductase activity in my genitals but at what cost am i doing this? :cry:
Introducing more DHT without taking care of SHBG or balancing between E2 and free T was a bad idea. Messing up with my balance only makes the natural enchancing-balancing even more harder job. I have NO way to evaluate this now.

I’ve already established that creatine only lasts for about a month in the bloodstream before it ultimately loses it’s effect… either due to negative feedback system reacting to it or that the creatine’s effect wears off. Maybe both!
It’s interesting that so far i seem to be the only case who got benefits to shrinking and Quality of Life but i guess others with shrinking genitals might get the same benefits from it too. You know…more labratory human-rodent experiments :laughing:

I think the major difference is that second time around (without aromatose inhibitor) i got more severe PFS-like symptons, along that the penis really didn’t improve as much as it did the first time around. The pain around my genital area is new and scary. The decline in penis size occured soon after the trial.
The fact that all of sudden i’m suffering from adrenal fatigue symptons too (cafeine crash) means that my adrenal system is taxed and out of whack too. Lucky that brain fog hasn’t appeared but on the other hand, the evening fatigue gets closer to that so it’s a mess.
Note, I’ve had hypothyroidism from before that got worse during Gefina and i am only medicating it with T4 as per the current European standard. Since getting natural thyroid supplement is just not an effective option, i can only work on the cortisol axis first :angry: I’m getting my cortisol tested (sorry, no T3) at Thursday to see if they are high. Even if they aren’t i am still going to work on the adrenaline system, if not only because of the testosterone binding effects of it but for the difficult fatigue problems also.

I’m still considering a new trial with creatine after all this if just to buy extra time but i dunno… to what i’d use it? What a mess, this genital shrinking… i’d take brainfog over this any day.


#4

my brainfog is absoulutly crippling, i cannot think any more period.


#5

Gulp!! Gulp!! I’m sorry, i sounded belittling. I’m sorry.
Perhaps you’ll find a way through reading recovery stories - lot of them are people who recovered from brainfogs and mental impairements.

However, besides shrinking i think my muscle wasting has really started now so it’s getting worse. Facial muscle athropy is the worst when it comes to bad appearance things.

Which is why i am still considering doing a third trial on creatine. I’ll propably do it regardless of symptons. Today i tried to get some private doctor to actually get more expansive hormone tests done NOW now that it’s cheap for me but the asshole… the fact that it was my first test and that i admitted that it was finasteride blew my chances.

So uh i really can’t hurry this process! I am doomed to wait for months to get any doctor believe me and give me proper lab test and hormonal treatments and i don’t want to take it.
I don’t know, i’d need to order all those testo boosts vitamins and supplements and that takes time and money. Muscle wasting and penile/testicle athropy blows hard.