This subject was discussed once before in the past, but I could not find the thread. Mew, if you can find it, it’s fine to combine them. Please don’t delete this if we can’t locate it.
This is big for me and I am curious to know if other guys are dealing with this problem. I still feel tired in the morning and usually don’t feel awake until after noon time. I was previously thinking maybe this was due to a thyroid issue or adrenal problem.
I have had several tests done on thyroid and adrenals and my endo says I do not have a problem in this area. I read a while back that people with thyroid issues often have this problem of not feeling awake in the morning and feeling the best late in the day. This is the way I feel most of the time.
I eat more food. It seems I need to eat more to keep my energy up. I am now wondering if my known lack of IGF-1 (Insulin like growth factor) is the reason for the way body is dealing with food. It seems body is resistant to insulin. I need to do more research to understand this better.
I wanted to see if any of you guys feel the same and has anything you have done helped it in any way.
Yes, i have been dealing with the same situation. Even though my glucose blood test indicates i am normal, my body does not digest sugar properly. It feels just the way you described, like i am insulin resistant. This is the reason i quit eating sugar since August last year. Even some fruits i have to avoid, like banana, pineaple and papaya. So far, the only thing that worked for me is avoiding sugar and processed foods (many have high fructose corn syrup or maltodextrose, dextrose, etc, which have the same impact as sugar) .
Thats basicly exactly what my diet looks like aswell well i take it abit further but same idea.
And i do better on the diet but not good enough thats the tricky part.
I still think its those damn adrenals but what the heck do i know… or anyone else for that matter regarding this mysterius pussle we got ourself in to.
Im having some more tests done this week.
Thyriod antibodies and some electrolytes and stuff but after that im starting on iso cort. Let you know how it goes.
My blood sugar also came back fine. I do believe there is a significant connection between why our bodies are not digesting food properly and a deficiency of certain hormones.
Have you had your Thyroid or Adrenals tested? Also did you have your IGF-1 & IGF-3 tested or HG? These are my recent results on those. I looked over your posts, but I did not see a test for any of these. I wonder if you are experiencing some of the same side effects as me, could your hormones be out of wack in a similar way.
My HG came back low on my first test 3 weeks ago, they then tested IGF-1 & IGF-3. Both are very low.
IGF1 93 (106-277)
IGF3 2.7 (3.4-6.7)
Free T4 1.01 (.61-1.12)
Free T3 2.81 (2.50-3.90)
Here are the Symptoms of HG deficiency, listed below.
•Increased body fat (particularly at the waist and in the face)
•Decreased muscle and bone mass
•Thinning skin with fine wrinkles
•Poor sweating or impaired temperature regulation
•Reduced strength and endurance
•Low energy level
•Decreased well-being (moodiness, mild depression)
•Loss of interest in sex
•Poor sleep
•Higher cholesterol levels, especially LDL (“bad”) cholesterol
•Overproduction of insulin (a hormone produced by the pancreas that regulates the levels of sugar in the blood), resulting from overweight
Diagnostic Tests
It also states below that people with GH deficiency are insulin resistant. If you have not tested your IGF-1 / IGF-3, It woudl be great to see if your numbers come out similar.
I am having the Arginine Stimulation test done listed below in two weeks.
I believe you went to see Shippen right? I would certainly guess he would have had your GH & IGF-1/3 tested. Did you get those done as well?
My hormone tests are in the blood test section (see the end of the thread). The latest one was done in August 2009. I wont retest before November this year. My thyroid test always comes back normal, cortisol in range, igf1 i belive last one was 184 (middle range).
I actually went to Dr. Crisler. He agreed that i show signs of being GH deficient and was positive that i have adrenal fatigue (which in my opinion seems more like Addison disease symptoms). His idea was for me to take GHRP-6, which is a precurssor of GH. I discourage anyone to try this, i didn’t even try it, as i realized it would have a direct affect on my pituitary. And since the pituitary-adrenal axis seems messed up in many of us, this could be pretty dangerous.
Also, i came to the conclusion that i need to wait for a treatment that will address the cause of the problem. I believe 5 ar and DHT will restart adrenals, prostate and pituitary, as soon as we find a way of correcting the problem. I don’t think supplementing GH or cortisone is a good idea. It could atrophy your hormone secreting areas. Better to preserve what you have now, through diet and lifestyle changes and wait for a cure IMHO.
I took Propecia at age 21. I don’t think I’ve grown much since. My younger brother has grown significantly. He is 6 foot. I am 5’10.
I had low IGF-1 and subnormal IGF-BP3. These are GH related. Clearly finasteride fucked up my growth factors. How? Not by reducing GH, but by reducing DHT.
DHT is essential for the formation of IGF1 in the liver. It works with GH.
Get this too. I used GH last year (as most people know) for a year. I ended with a ‘deformed’ skull (ie) jutting out temporal and occipital bone. I was a bit sensitive about it and it was the reason I stopped GH.
I have taken Masteron at a stupid dose for the last 3 months. And guess what? My skull has changed further!! Although it looks better as the frontal bone has filled in.
I also have more prominent supraorbital ridge. My teetj have also moved further apart from eachother. Acromegaly style. But I actually look better!!
Now I know I sound fucking weird but I think finasteride stunted my growth by inhibiting DHT, and thus reducing IGFs. Me now pumping DHT back into my system is allowing my skull to grow to it’s potential, bu tof course I’m going to miss out on the extra 2 inches in height as my growth plates have fused.
You have scared me. I was thinking of using HGH, if my next test turns out that I am HG deficient. However, having read about what happened to your skull after only a year that’s pretty scarey.
I googled it and apparently the same thing happend to Barry Bonds. It may have also happended to Sylverster Stallone.
JN, when you were taking the HGH did you notice an improvement sexually. Also, what about your mental state. Did you see an improvement there?
I don’t think I want to use HGH now, but If I know I deficient and improving HGH will make me feel normal again then at least I know what hormone exactly will make me better.
WHat else can we do to get our HGH levels back to a normal level. I don’t think living the way I am currently living with this condition is something I can tolerate for years into the future.
You noticed changes in your skull formation that resemble my own, although I’ve never supplemented with any hormones such as GH. It’s a really bizarre thing to refer to, but my facial bones especially have become much thicker, my jawline broadened and the skull itself larger too. I really don’t know what its about, but I attributed it to my muscle weakness and figured it was my body compensating for lacking muscular support or something. I really wonder what this might suggest.
It seems like our bodies is broken down. Candida, total collapse of adrenals(adrenal fatigue), DHT depletion and GH depletion.
One things leads to the next.
Seems like our bodies are just burnt out to the Max.
I had been posting on several muscle chat boards as well trying to get knowledge from those guys as well. Several of them seem to think if I do have an HGH problem, GHRP-6 may be able to stimulate the pituitary gland to begin to secret GH again.
I understand your fear of trying this, but I am going to do more research on this. I think this is something I would be willling to do based on the information I have so far.
if It can help to begin to get my pituitary going, I am willing to give that a try. I am going to discuss it with my doctor. I also read if you combine GHRP-6 with insulin there is an increase in the amount of GH secreted by the pituitary.
I don t remember what i read at the time, but i definetely got scared about ghrp-6. Something you don’t want is to get even worse. Think about it… If what caused our problems at first was inhibition of 5 ar and DHT, the proper way to reverse it, should be addressing these problems. I know we don t have a solution for this now, but we may have it in a near future. When i was talking to Dr Crisler he told me i would be his first propecia pacient to try ghrp-6. The guys from the muscle forum you re talking to have their 5 ar and dht working… so you cant compare their reaction to the one you would have.
I am not trying to scare you out, just advising you to think very carefully about it. I feel glad i did not try it. Good luck!
This is not true, because I posted my blood work on the chat boards. They saw my IGF-1 & IGF-3 numbers. I am certainly not making a decision based on what they say alone. The fact that Chrisler recommended it to you & I was told that would help by multiple others does make me think I should talk to my dr about it. Also, I tested my DHT numbers and they came back fine.
I will talk to him about it. If he thinks it safe and a good idea, then I will most likely go ahead and do it. I seriously don’t think there is cure waiting for propecia sufferers any time soon. I would think it would be 7-10 years away. You would first have to get the medical community to agree this drug can cause permanant side effects. Then we could expect some type of testing to begin. I personally can’t imagine living like this for 7 years.
I am now 1 year off of the pill and I have 20lbs of muscle loss, ZERO sexual libido, other sexual sides and a lack of energy. I can’t continue like this. It is quite clear to me, that some of us will not get better on our own.
Look. There is only one way to know whether you are GH deficient. Do an insulin tolerance test. This is the only way. If this is normal then there must be another explanation for your low IGFs (ie) inadequate androgens, particularly DHT, being most likely.
I had low IGFs and I think the cause was low androgens (DHT), not GH insufficiency.
JN, This is a incorrect statement. Both Arginine Stimulation test and the Insulin tolerance test are used to determine HG deficiency. I’m not sure why you would post something like this without providing link verifying data. If you have some newly proven medical research discounting The Arginine stimulation test, please share with all of us.
