libido never left…except for depression/avoidance of sex due to the circumstance. (still whacked it, lol).
In retrospect, the Clomiphene was also lowered prior to that 20.7 E result. So I don’t know how much to attribute to the Zinc.
My current medication strategy, as detailed in my blog (along with a detailed lab history chart that shows exactly what dosages of meds I was on at time of each lab draw), is to “lower the substrate” as Dr. G. put it…lower the T…to accommodate my E conversation rate. So, less clomid, less testim, and less arimidex. I’m getting updated labs in 3 weeks. If things don’t budge in the right direction, I might try a few weeks of 50mg of Zinc again, although I need to read up on it more 'cause I know that you must also supplement Copper…and vitamin A, I think (it’s late, this is off the top of my head).
take a good multivitamin couple times during the day and youll be straight…youll get enough zinc, copper, and other vitamins that you need…Vitamin Shoppe has some good deals…and good vitamins…
I’m happy you are getting better…I almost did your procedure 5 years about but decided against…I did an angiogram on my veins pre-operation and there was a lack of flow on the left side. However, I decided against the operation, not sure if this is how my body’s anatomy is setup, I can’t understand how this drug could do something like that…
Hey anonnn1, I already take a multivitamin (with extra B complex) daily, in the morning. (Along with 2-8,000 ius of D, biotin, and sometimes 1000mg of C). Are you suggesting taking another one at night, or 2 in the morning? Is this not a bit much? I also eat at least one Cliff bar a day, usually in the morning, sometimes an additional one later in the afternoon as a snack. I’m a bit weary of taking too many vitamins, thoughts?
I wish it was the case that I was getting better. I had that brief window where I thought it was all over. Until I get my E down to 20 and see if that is the culprit from here on out, I just don’t know.
I do remember you had the same physical diagnostic tests but wanted to straighten out the hormonal side before attempting any re-wiring.
Whatever you were anatomically born with—I’d venture to say that if you took a snapshot of the general population–it doesn’t remain perfectly perfect as you age. Drug use, alcohol, diet, toxins, pollution and physical trauma likely deteriorate the situation. I consider Finasteride a LEADING cause of penile tissue health deterioration, prostate deterioration, and vascular deterioration. So does Dr. G. There IS a connection between lack of DHT and vascular deficiency. How close the dots will be connected through future research, I do not know. But were it not for Finasteride screwing up my hormones and robbing my junk of nutrition, so to speak, I think I would have been one of those cases of, say, late-onset ED, perhaps, maybe at an older age, where popping a Viagra would do the trick, I’d be married, no big stigma, etc. Can’t know for sure, but just my belief. Or else, I would have been one of Dr. G’s normal surgery cases (I’ve talked to about 10 on the phone), who did the bypass, have fully restored function, and think of him as a god…no hormonal issues, piping is fixed, and they’re as happy as can be.
Dr. G. has two other finasteride/revascularization patients currently in the surgical recovery period. I’m in close touch with one. His hormones weren’t ALL that screwed up to begin with (6 months of Fin usage), so it was his elective to take Clomid and Arimidex. He did, and his profile is now pretty good, 1000/T, 70/DHT, 30/E…he’s 1 1/2 weeks into recuperation and is getting 90% nocturnals, and random 90% daytime boners. Usually, non-hormonal (blunt trauma) patients see signs of results at the 4/5 week mark. So it’s early, but that’s a good sign. He may also have to knock E down a little, but he may also not be as hormonally distorted as I am…my hormonal profile was wrecked when I first saw the doc, and I took Fin for 8 years.
wow, 3 times a day, the above dosage? What form do you take it in? when you say “servings,” makes me think of powder or something. Do you have specific products you suggest?
I was just talking to “the other guy” who recently had a revascularization surgery (and is still in recovery) and had used propecia. (No recovery of function, 3 weeks post-op).
Pre-op, with Clomid and Arimidex usage, his basic hormonal profile was something like this: T/1010, DHT 71, E 39
Very similar to mine.
We were discussing the use of Zinc again. He had labs taken this morning, and decided to start Zinc supplementation today. I will draw blood tomorrow, after which I’m gonna start Zinc again. I’m pretty sure my E is still gonna turn out to be high, and from here on out, I want Zinc to be the only variable, I will not change my dosages of Clomid/Testim/Arimidex for the 100th time.
Got me thinking…in re-visiting my lab history chart…I noticed that my TSH was higher the lower my Estrogen was. Without fail. Higher Thyroid function = lower estrogen = function for me (when I hit that 20.7 mark). I read that Zinc treats hypothyroidism. Thyroid works with Pituitary, etc, etc. I’m not using Science here, just basic logic.
Dr. G. was concerned at the spiking TSH, but it PEAKED when I felt BEST! Made me think about how somebody mentioned that Dr. Jacobs treats thyroid patients with uber-high dosages & that he tests the full range of Throid-related tests.
I’ll be posting updated labs in about a week…I bet Estrogen has remained high. And so I’m thinking of doing 50mg of Zinc TWICE a day for a week or so, to jumpstart things, and then stick with 50mg daily.
It seems as if the leading theory on this board, and between docs like Dr. G. & Dr. Jacobs…is that we have androgen insensitivity. Could we have insensitivity to ALL of our systems? Thyroid, etc?
Everytime I take ZMA , Zinc magnesium vitamin b 6. The first week or two my erections functions 100% than my body adjust. So i take it for two weeks on two weeks off. seems to be a good addition to my regiment.
On lower meds, my T just went up to 1060, my E up to 50 (and TSH correspondingly slightly lower w the high E) . I took the labs on Fri, and expecting that my E would be high decided to start taking zinc 50 mg twice a day along w my normal multivitamin. Doc agreed that my body compensates T production every time we lower meds, so I’m tapering off all meds and gonna give the zinc theory a chance. I skipped testim today. Next wk, I will cut the minimal 25mg/ twice a week clomid, and then the following wk, cut the arimidex. I’m typing this on my phone, ill post my updated lab chart later. My tendency for E to go down then up makes me wonder if ill need to cycle zinc as well. Is that all you’re using? Any other meds? Or is lowering estrogen all u need to get erections?
I also take l-arginine and pycnogenol, 3000mg of l-arginine and 75 mg of pycnogenol. I take those two for about two months on one month off. The combination of all that with the zma has given me back full confidence. I didnt have nocturnal erections for two and half years until i started those supplements. No meds. Iva taken a quater pill of cialis twice in the last 6 months and that gives me an erection of 110% but ive been fine without it.
I think balancing as oppose to lowering estrogen is one of many many variables.
I’ve attached my latest labs. Compare Column K (felt recovery for 1 week) with the last results in Column N. Compare dosages at time of blood draw.
At the time of the lab test, I was taking fewer T-stimulating meds and one more pill a week of Arimidex compared to my highlighted “recovery” period lab test. And yet my T, E2 have jumped. My body appears to be compensating for the lack of T-meds…by producing it’s own T! ? !
I’d started to take Zinc 50mg twice a day right after the last lab test (as that seems to be the only major variable between when I felt recovered and now). Now, per Bjamin’s advice, I’m taking it once nightly. Until I get my ZMA formula delivered.
I’m also gradually weaning off my meds, putting an extra day between dosages each time I take them, until I take them no more. Time to see if my body really has adjusted, and if I can get that E2 under control, and if that’s the freakin’ answer for me!
Hey folks, here’s the latest and greatest in my world…meds, labs (attached), supplements and needles in my dick…
Latest lab chart = attached. Results are updated through 9-29-10(DHT still pending)
No matter how much Arimdex I’d take, no matter how much I’d lowered Clomiphene and Testim, T and E still kept climbing. So I decided to begin a slow tapering off of meds at the beginning of September 2010. For each drug (Clomiphene, Testim, Arimidex), I’ve been putting an additional day in between doses each time I take it, until I’m at a week in between doses for each. Then, I’m going to cut the dose by half each subsequent week. Until I’m taking nothing at the end of October.
I began a regimen of L-Arginine and Pycnogenol at the beginning of September per the suggestion of forum member Benjamin who now reports getting to 80%+ in erection function after two years of experimentation with natural supplements (and no results). His daily regimen includes: Multi-V, Vit C, Fish Oil, L-Arginine and Pycnogenol 3x a day + nightly ZMA (Zinc formula). I Take all the same stuff, only I do the Arginine/1000mg & Pycnogenol/60mg morning and night. And I take 50mg of Zinc nightly (haven’t tried the ZMA formula which is 30mg of Zinc + 450mg Magnesium & 10.5mg B6)
I also began doing self-injections of a low-dose vasoactive agent, straight into my dick at the same time. 20 units of “Bimix” gave me a three hour erection (felt great, but scary!!!) that I had to shoot down with the antidote, an adrenalin concoction. I’ve since gone down to 3 units, which gives me some blood flow that I can “activate” with arousal. Hangs around for 20 minutes after ejaculation. Began this as a “let’s try everything to wake up the system” approach, as it’s typically used as a short-term therapy for post prostate-cancer surgery patients who develop ED from nerve damage do. And not as old couples who use this instead of Viagra. I’ve since cooled off the shots, as I developed some sharp pains in the head of my penis.
I keep feeling I’m almost “there.” I can get 3/4 full to strong morning half-awake erections (mostly after night-before injections)…the mechanism works! But only in sleep state—what’s different when awake as far as body processes, chemicals, interactions, etc.???
I’m booked to see Dr. Mariano in next week. His office claims that finasteride, inherently a bad anti-androgenic drug, screws up those of us predisposed with certain characteristics for which our body is already delicately balancing, in order to be healthy. They say they can reverse the damage, albeit slowly, depending on the extent of physical damage exacted (fibrosis, prostate, etc). They treat the underlying causes after a 2 hour evaluation and more comprehensive labs than I’ve been taking (cortisol, full Thyroid panel and God knows what else). The regimen is a combination of pharmaceuticals, diet, supplements customized per patient. The approach is interdisciplinary (takes into account behavioral history, androgens as well as other aspects of the body, immune system, etc.). I’m best summarizing the data I could glean from my conversation, as well as a couple of others from the board that are due to see him, and extrapolation from his online writeups.
The above link to the “chronic masturbation” discussion forum kind of hit home. I used to jerk it 6-8 times a day, if I’m home from work now, despite my lower function, I could go 4-5 times, even though some nights I’m just too tired and it’s too much work. I never considered the possibility of burnout. Or that masturbation, in and of itself could be symptomatic of something. My guess is that this all ties into what we’re going through. I’m looking forward to taking a more complete look at my entire system and seeing how many checkboxes are “off” and what this doc proposes to do.
It’s been a year with Dr. G., and I feel he’s run out of answers with the post finasteride deal. I think he’s an excellent surgeon, and he’s helped people I’ve met and spoken with overcome their physical arterial insufficiency and other physical, anatomical issues (just because you have fin-damage doesn’t mean you don’t warrant a complete diagnosis), but I am one of the recent handful of vascular surgery/finasteride patients who is seeing no results. And it doesn’t appear to be as simple as boosting one’s T. I’ve seen elsewhere here people stating that Dr. G prescribes surgery for androgen insensitivity–that’s not true. He operates on qualified candidates with arterial insufficiency–but I don’t think he’ll operate on finasteride patients anymore, because it’s not working…fin may have caused the artery blockage, the rotting down there (prostate and all), but it’s obviously not enough to re-work the plumbing. Having said that, I’m encouraged that he says he’s dedicated to getting to the bottom of this, that he’s going to work with other doctors to figure it out…
Speaking of which, I have also been working behind the scenes to get the top specialists who are working with post-finasteride syndrome patients on a conference call with each other to trade case studies, theories, successes, failures, etc. It appears as if the doctors are conferencing soon. But I do not have further details, and it seems they are now handling the conference call themselves. More power to them, it can only help our cause.
thanks, for the update. So in summarizing your post, am I correct to state that you have had some positive progress, but you still feel you are aways from feeling as though you are recovered? Also, it sounds as though the sugery was not worthwhile for you?
Well, Clomiphene provided some relief way back when, a year ago, when I began it (eliminated my super-annoying hives and dry, red, itchy patches of skin). And focusing on fitness and diet, scaling back on booze helped my overall wellbeing.
And I had some brief recovery–to what, I do not what to attribute to. Was it a moment of low E combined with sufficiently high T? (see the attached chart in the previous post). Or the cascade of events from that fleeting ratio? Was it the 20+ miles I’d walk each day as part of recovery from surgery? Was it that the artery was pumping at a higher rate at the time (it settles into a normal rate after a while—sufficient for non-fin patients). Was it a reaction to the injections which I was given in follow-up visits to do doppler ultrasound checks on the artery connection? Combined with not being allowed sex or masturbation during recovery? All of the above?
I don’t know that the surgery was ever needed. Or perhaps only when one solves the hormonal/systemic issues, can one assess if further anatomical correction is necessary. I was (willingly) a guinea pig, I’ve confirmed that the doc is not further recommending the surgery for fin patients. I just couldn’t live with not knowing if fixing the plumbing would do the trick, didn’t like the idea that stuff was compromised, wanted to remove a variable. I’d still love to know how many of us have a blockage down there. I’m increasingly attributing the blockage to finasteride. I think this drug fucks EVERYTHING up.
Now, sidenote, I injected myself last night before going out, small dose…and later popped 75mg of viagra…just in case something happened…big time, long boners…and I had to jerk it to go down…and I jerked it again twice this morning. Getting a boner makes you hornier, you’re just gonna be more into it, you’re gonna play with yourself, lol. I’m convinced that this is PART of the libido issue for some if not all.
