My Bloodwork pre/post Clomid **Labs after 3months of treatment @ bottom**

Member Stories Lab Tests
#21

Interesting, I never heard that you shouldn’t pay attention to escalated E while on Clomid.

I did dip in T and DHT slightly since the arimidex. Getting updated labs done on Friday to get a fuller hormonal profile (Progesterone, Pregnenolone, etc, etc) after I discuss with the doc.

Thanks for the post and well-wishes. I’d like to wean off these pills too, especially exogenous T.

Hopefully, there isn’t anything else too screwed up, 'cause I’m about ready to do the arteriogram, already. Other than E.D., I feel great.

#22

Hello,

I’m am now one week post microvascular penile revascularization surgery (an artery bypass, essentially) to correct the blockage that was likely exacerbated by Finasteride-induced androgen deprivation, if not completely caused. (Officially, the suspicion is that there was blunt trauma to the perineum, possibly during childhood, which Finasteride worsened).

Recovering well–the surgery was technically a success–but it’s still WAY too early to assess function. I’ve kept away from this site, because I got sick of being preoccupied/worried with Finasteride. And I don’t want to post or get quizzed regarding my surgery/function until I’m in the clear. At which point I will gladly share my journal and tips, respond to e-mail, etc.

But I did want to check in and post my updated labs as well as pass along that Dr. G. believes that 600 level Testosterone is where us Finasteride sufferers with Androgen Insensitivity need to be.

[b]I’ve attached a very interesting article on the matter that Dr. G. passed on to me. If it has already been posted, I apologize. Pay particular attention to Figure 3. If you want to re-post in other sections or extract passages, diagrams, please do.

I’m also attaching a PDF chart of my hormonal values (same ranges as before) over time under adjusted dosages of meds. The key thing is that I’ve been able to get my DHT from 17 to 70. I’m not a doctor–but 5AR is not dead.[/b]

Myself, I’m feeling good, and we’re still adjusting dosages/closely monitoring Estrogen. But Dr. G. believes I have a great hormonal profile for someone with the aforementioned Androgen Insensitivity.

Hope you are all doing well. I’m doing all the necessary walking for recovery, thinking positive, eating well, to get as healthy as possible from the trauma of the operation. And I’m trying not to think about you-know-what, which is tough as hell. Please help me in that area.

Again, I will answer e-mail and elaborate more further in the future. Wish me well. I think I am the first of Dr. G’s many Finasteride/blockage cases to have undergone the surgery. So I’m either a Guinea pig or pioneer at this point, lol.
Pharmacogenomics of androgens 2009.pdf (510 KB)
Xhorndog-Lab History Chart.pdf (31 KB)

#23

Dear fellow members of Propeciahelp, Post-Finasteride Syndrome sufferers, frustrated men:

I’m nearing what I believe to be an imminent full recovery from Erectile Dysfunction.

As previously posted, my diagnosis consisted of:
•hormonal damage due to use of Finasteride (Proscar, Propecia)
•penile artery blockage due to blunt trauma (exacerbated by Finasteride-induced androgen deprivation/vascular deterioration)¹

My treatment consisted of:
•a regimen of medication (Clomiphene Citrate, Testim, Arimidex)
•surgery to bypass the blocked penile artery (penile revascularization)

I began meds in November of 2009, I was operated on in May of 2010. I’m my doctor’s first Finasteride/Blockage case that has elected to do the surgery, perhaps the only one out there? It’s now a couple of months later and here is my prognosis:

My recovery, my arousal and vitality and feeling of being “sprung” came post-op at the 4/5 week mark when labs indicated Estrogen of 20.7. I believe this is the magic number, the twenties, if you will. Prior to surgery, I’d achieved that number once, but no improvement in function. All of a sudden, I was walking down the street, fantasizing about ex-girlfriends, and voila! I had an embarrassing erection. Not quite full out, but thick and alive. Enough to blush and want it to go away. But could I do it again? Over and over, just as I used to be able to fantasize in the shower or in class or at work and get an erection, it kept happening!

At this point, I was excited, but I still didn’t feel all there. Sex was prohibited during the surgery recovery period of six weeks, the erections were uncomfortable, foreign-feeling, the entire area still tender. But I felt like I was trending in the right direction. Would it work with a girl? Days later, the girl who I was seeing returned to town, and I got even more excited! Upon greeting her, hugging her, I felt the bulge. I was in that turned-on stage that I used to feel so easily. We went out, had a bite and a few drinks, went back to her place. Now, knowing that masturbating or having sex during the six week period could compromise result, I was determined not to do something stupid. You have no idea what will power I had to summon to prevent myself from inserting “just the tip.” I had to pull off my shorts to give my penis a release from the uncomfortable tension against my shorts. I kept parading around with my erection to my elation and her laughter. I made out with her, I hovered around her with it. It was staying up. At first, straight out, then it started climbing up. I came so close to putting it inside her, but we both knew better. I’d relax, hang out, then get excited again. Holy shit!!!

But this feeling of easy arousal only lasted a little more than a week.

What happened?

My Estrogen spiked to 67 upon being retested weeks later!

Why?

I believe because during my surgical recovery, I took Zinc for 11 days to treat a cold. This was a couple of weeks before the 20.7 Estrogen result. I had a hunch that Zinc would affect the Estrogen, but how much? Apparently a lot?!

Well, before I got the latest lab update indicated the spiked Estrogen, I was cleared to have sex at six weeks and change. Before surgery, I thought I could and would and ought to abstain longer. But I was backed up! I jerked off, I didn’t have the super easy mental/arousal, but it didn’t take much touching (and light touching, I might add–still quite sore), to get a full on erection and whoa! Yeah, I was backed up.

Later that night, I had sex. But I was armed with mega doses of Cialis (and later Viagra and combinations thereof). Doc told me to dose up as an insurance policy, to get confidence back as we continued to monitor the hormones. So now, on top of the required 6 month vascular maintenance dosage of a 1/4 Viagra pill nightly (25mg) or Cialis 5mg (both name brand), I’m popping 100mg of generic (or fake, I should say) Cialis, I’m popping an extra 100mg of Viagra (fake). And I’m starting to feel that blood hanging around all the time, feeling a bit more confident regardless of setting (day/night, sober/drunk) but not the same feeling as that wonderful 4/5 week mark. I’m thinking to myself, well, this isn’t perfect, but if it don’t get any better than this, it’s definitely better than before. I’m feeling as if the piping is definitely improved. The happy pills never worked this well before.

But I believe it CAN get better. I believe that the answer, at this point, is in getting Estrogen to stay around the 20 mark. I am presently awaiting direction from my doctor on altering the dosage of my meds. We had previously discussed upping Arimidex to 5 days a week (instead of 3). I popped an extra pill this week in anticipation of this being the next step. Boy I’d like to completely remove having to apply Testim gel daily, maybe that’s next? And it sure would be nice if eventually it could be the case that only excess estrogen needs to be attacked/inhibited. But I’m hopeful and optimistic that dialing the right cocktail of the present meds for a sustained period can bring back that 4/5 week mark and some stability to the situation.

I’ve been waiting and waiting and waiting before deciding to go online and post what’s been happening. I don’t want to seem like the fool that went and got operated on needlessly, I don’t want to publish premature results that fade away. But I feel like it doesn’t matter anymore, I want to share my entire ordeal and every little update in an ongoing format. It’s as much a cathartic process for me as it is a resource for people who have not explored the route I took.

That’s why I’ve decided to post today. And that’s why I’ve been slaving away at putting up my first ever blog:

www.penisrebirth.wordpress.com

I’ve decided to blog about the rollercoaster ride, no matter which turn it takes.

I’m going to be refining (and learning how to manage) the site as much as time permits. My goal is not to create a duplicate of Propeciahelp.com (like I even could! lol), but rather, to be a companion support site for newbies googling around for info on erectile dysfunction/finasteride. I want to raise awareness for the possibility of exploring both hormonal AND physical testing and treatment. Propeciahelp has been an amazing resource for me, has some incredibly dedicated and brilliant posters, and is an invaluable forum (thank you Mew and everyone). But the focus is solely on Finasteride, and I’d like to take a different approach to documenting my story. I feel like I can have a forum where I post my own, unique road and battle and recovery. Complete with quick posts on sexual encounters, progress from situation to situation, more on-the-fly anecdotes. A working journal, flaws, warts and all.

As such, I want to share my blog with you and hope you’ll follow and root for me and explore the full extent of diagnostic methods and treatments available out there. Visit penisrebirth.wordpress.com, e-mail me, tell me what you think, what I could add, and share any of your stories that might be different than just the Finasteride angle.

Thank you! Updated labs attached, fyi.

companion key to the attached lab history chart file:
*approximately 3-4 months after quitting Finasteride
**over a year after quitting Finasteride
*** Cortisol was high during this round of labs (only time tested)
**** Zinc 50mg daily (a known Estrogen Inhibitor) was taken to combat a cold for 11 days (May 27th thru June 6); last dose was taken just over a week before the 20.7 E result.
June 12th is when excitability/improvement was really noticed in person; fantasy/spontaneity observed days before (~4-5 wk mark)

History of Finasteride & Side Effects:
• I used Finasteride (Proscar/1.25 mg) daily for 8 years
• I experienced the beginning of major side effects in mid 2007 (loss of morning erections/ability)
• I quit the drug in late 2008, symptoms of ED, itchy hives, exhaustion persisted
• Looking back, I could sense that I had lost just a little bit of that super easy spontaneous arousal as early as 1-2 years into Finasteride usage

¹I do not think it’s inconceivable that Finasteride completely introduced the physical arterial blockage, but this is at least the official diagnosis. The debate is irrelevant at this point, as most all of us agree that Finasteride is bad. Question is, do you KNOW if you have a blockage? And if you DO have a blockage, what are you doing about it? Are you only treating your hormones??

#24

haha, awesome blog url. congrats on your recovery.

#25

Hey mate,

Thanks for your post i found it very interesting. You took propecia for a similar amount of time to me (8 years). You must have been so elated to feel horny and have a good erection like that. While i dont think everyone has a blocked Penile Artery (as many have been tested), i have often considered that perhaps there is some damage to the area done by fin. As it reduces DHT in the prostate, i have always wondered about the nerves etc near there, and whether they have also been affected. I do think that a strong erection helps the chain reaction of arousal to occur and continue.

One question i do have is when did you start on the Testim? I think others have reported a grace period of a few weeks high libido and good function, which tapered off. This damn condition, the tapering off really gets my goat!

Please keep us informed, on your blog and here!

#26

golf–thanks man. not fully there, but I really think/hope that getting E back to that spot it was when I started to get sprung is key. I’ve got a phone consult scheduled soon to discuss strategies w/ the doc.

Sennex–I felt elated, then let down, as I have throughout this entire ordeal again and again. At first, I was afraid that my worst fears had been confirmed: that even with a repaired artery, the Finasteride battle was far from over. Then I saw signs of life. Up and down, up and down. I’m trying to keep things level.

As far as the physical diagnosis: no, I don’t think that everyone necessarily has an artery blockage, but there are a multitude of physical manifestations of E.D. and Finasteride damage. Most urologists do not run tests to determine what your blood flow to the penis is like. This is how you get erections! Blood flow! (Sure, it’s more complex than that, obviously you need a chemical reaction/catalyst, but you get what I’m saying). It’d be like having a skateboarding accident where you know you broke your arm, but the doctor only wants to treat the scrapes for infection. He refuses to X-ray and confirm what’s physically taken place, or attempt to treat it. I hope that’s not a terrible analogy.

I really don’t know how many people have gotten physically tested and by who, with what competence. (I put up a survey a while back, and the response was limited). I befriended another patient of Dr. G’s whose a finasteride/blockage case (and who’s scheduled for the revasc surgery soon) who originally went to another “renowned” urologist whose own test results indicated insufficient blood flow. Yet that doctor did not see a problem. It’s astounding! And the fin/blockage cases keep building up according to Dr. G.

Each person is different. As you read info on androgen insensitivity/post-finasteride syndrome (including Dr. Alan Jacobs’ superb blog), you see that there may be a genetic predisposition to who gets damaged and how much based on their DNA/repetition (this is where I exit stage left before I put my foot in my mouth). Thus, everyone’s treatment protocol can/may/will likely be different.

The thing I’ve tried to impress over and over and over in my posts and by sharing all the info from my visits to Dr. G., is that most of us do not seek a complete diagnosis, we only focus on the Finasteride, and that is the only angle I had for a long time. Don’t!! Certainly treat and monitor the hormones. I look for any and all patterns as I chart out results. But widen the scope of inquiry. And best of luck to you!

Oh yeah, almost forgot, Sennex: I started adding Testim to the mix (1/2 tube) a couple months after beginning Clomid therapy. (download the attached jpg chart of my entire lab history). Dosage is down to 1/3 tube daily now…and who knows in the near future…

http://www.penisrebirth.wordpress.com

#27

Xhorndog,

Congrats on moving in the right direction with the recovery process. You took the pill a little longer than me, but I also took it quite a while. So, I find your story encouraging to many of the us guys that took more than a couple of years.

How long would you say it has taken you from the day you quit, to get where you are at now? Also, how long did you say took clomid for?

Now that you have your own blog, I imagine you’ll do most of your posting there. Do keep everyone updated as things improve in the future.

#28

I don’t remember from your earlier stories, how has your viagra and cialis use changed since the surgery?

#29

bostonusa2009: thanks. it’s been…gosh, almost 3 years since the ordeal began for me…2 years off the damn drug…nearly 9 months of clomid. I’d reallly suggest you look at the chart I’ve attached in my initial post…it’s all there…all my labs, dosage at time of draw. the whole up and down.

I’ll keep posting here and on my blog, like I said, whatever turns this thing takes, I feel I need to get the info out there.

martinM: since seeing the doc in november of 2009, I was on a maintenance dosage of 5mg cialis nightly to “clean the pipes” if you will. situationally, I’d dose up on 20-100mg of Cialis.

Since the surgery, I alternate between 5mg of Cialis or 25mg of Viagra (both name brand) nightly. I can’t afford the amount of genuine Cialis or Viagra I need to situationally provide enough insurance policy (as is common post-surgery in sole artery blockage/non-finasteride cases), so I’ve stocked up on “fake” (not generic, 'cause there are no generics at this time) Cialis and Viagra. I’ll mix and match with these. They work, but since I don’t have a long history with Viagra, I’m not as confident with it. And ya just never know what’s in this stuff. Obviously, I have mixed emotions about using these drugs (which are made in India, btw), but I don’t know what else to do. On these higher doses, there is just more blood hanging around my dick now. it’s like I’m always semi downwardly slightly erect. Which didn’t happen before. Without the high doses, there still is more blood flow. My flaccid penis hangs lower, even when I urinate. It just feels more alive and healthy.

#30

Have you suffered any other side effects apart from these sexual ones?

#31

Does it make your face red or itchy or anything??

I was thinking of this treatment as well.

#32

JOE-91: yes, I had a littany of side effects even after quitting finasteride. I’ve copied and pasted this from my blog:
•I took Finasteride (Proscar 1.25 mg/daily) for approximately 9 years. From 2000 through late 2008, beginning at age 21, quitting at age 30 cold turkey.

•In my 7th and 8th year of drug usage, ED issues were undeniable, and energy and mojo and just…”life-force” started fading severely. Looking back, there were signs of degradation in sexual ability even as I was exceptionally horny and active and capable.

•Side effects that persisted even after quitting the drug: E.D., loss of nocturnal & spontaneous erections, emotionally flat, difficulty focusing, anxiety attacks, lack of motivation, penis curvature, persistent fatigue, itchy/dry patches of skin, hives in genital and leg areas (verified not STDs)

Boston: no itchy face from the cialis, viagra, fake or otherwise. I sometimes get a little flushed, but that’s it. and believe you me, I’m attuned to monitoring side effects after all this mess.

#33

So, how have your other side effects cleared up (if they have)?

#34

as previously reported, most everything went away after boosting T on Clomid. In just a few weeks to a month, overall well-being dramatically improved for me.

The relief from the hives I was getting was immense. Energy started to come back, mood improved.

I do have terrible short-term memory, especially with recalling names of people. This and E.D. persist.

#35

Does it make your face red or itchy or anything??

I was thinking of this treatment as well.[/qu

I’m also thinking about this although sex isn’t high on my list of priorities with this mess. Nevertheless I think more guys with ed should be trying something along the lines of this
viewtopic.php?f=31&t=593

#36

yes, and just to be clear, the nightly PDE5 inhibitor dose was prescribed by Dr. G. immediately upon seeing him. It helps with nocturnals, penile tissue health, etc. And is a requirement for 6 months after the revascularization procedure (regardless of origin of impotence). 1/4 tab of 100mg of Viagra which is equivalent to 5mg of Cialis, and so on and so on…

#37

I’ve got some updates and news that I posted on my blog:

http://www.penisrebirth.wordpress.com

latest entries (in chronological order):
Sex with 2 Girls
Stabbing My Penis (pictures of the Ultrasound)
Girl is Gone
That Damn Estrogen

I’ve also added an e-mail subscription field if you want to receive blog content directly in your e-mail, right when I post.

summary/highlights: I describe a few sexual encounters, the efficacy of “fake” viagra and cialis, being taught how to inject my penis into an erect state, my depression and disappointment, confirmation my artery is still pumping, and latest lab results (E is still high, so my medication dosages have been adjusted yet again). I still have hope that getting E down to 20 again is where recovery lies. Let’s see…

#38

This is very interesting! Another case where zinc has pushed someone in the right direction. It would seem that zinc may have dropped your estrogen by two thirds!

#39

this user did numerous other things - including surgery - besides zinc

#40

So did surgery give him his libido back?