I feel horrible. But, I really dont think anyone is having any measure of success treating us now. If Mariano had documented cases of “cures” it would be nice if he’d submit those cases for peer review.
Since he suspects neurotransmitter issues did he test for them? Did he give you a prostate exam? I dont understand how cell death could have shrunk my penis literally overnight.
I agree, more T is not the answer with 99.99% of us. I took a shot of Depo T last Tuesday and felt absolutely nothing. Matter of fact I might feel a bit worse.
I’m definately not knocking you for going to Mariano. And, I too don’t see many options out there for us. But, I think he should take a closer look at silenced AR signal theory and test someone for methyelation before ruling it out. I agree, there comes a time that you have to pick a doc and pick a treatment and put your faith in someone. I really hope Mariano has some answers for you and all our sake.
As I mentioned, very exhaustive testing, including norepinephrine, epinephrine, dopamine, progesterone, pregnenolone and a million other things, lol.
Who is treating you?
Anyways, with respect to doctors, I appreciate that a few people here brought Mariano’s blog/writing to my attention, from there, everyone can do their own research and read each respective doctors’ writings (again, dig around that male discussion forum, check out the thread on chronic masturbation and other sexual matters to get an idea of his thinking) and draw their own conclusions. To date, he’s the brightest doctor I’ve ever met, I only wish I could articulate a third of what he communicates. And of course, he hasn’t healed me, but I hold out hope. He explained why I felt temporary recovery and why that recovery was fleeting, but couldn’t do his explanation justice. Experiencing that feeling, though, gives me hope that the possibility of sustained recovery exists.
Back to the subject at hand–anyone who has undergone thyroid treatment or understands thyroid issues (and suppressed adrenal issues for that matter), could you help me interpret my latest labs ahead of my follow-up in a couple of days?
This discussion got me thinking that we really need to push for some testing of the AR insensitivity theory (and other’s too). So that we can all know whether or not it is the root problem and so that everybody on the forum and the PFS Docs can get on the same team and focus their efforts together. I’m not sure how difficult it would be to get our androgen receptor gene expression tested but I’m certain it would be do-able. And once we had tangible evidence as to whether hyper-methylation was (or was not) the key, it would also make it much easier to push for treatment. I have a feeling that even if awor succeeds it will be difficult to get treatment in this manner (with the obvious exceptions of Jacobs, Shippen, Goldstein etc.), because many docs will still think we are crazy.
In the same way, if Mariano believes that tissue damage is the reasoning, then this also must be testable, perhaps through a CT scan of the brain and prostate? For me the big fault in this theory is that:
if it is tissue damage then symptoms should begin to appear steadily whilst on the drug, in an almost predictable manner, rather than happening almost overnight (i.e. your erections and libido would steadily get worse over time whilst on it). And should steadily improve with time off (depending on the severity of tissue damage).
Time on the drug should correlate fairly closely to the severity of symptoms, but it does not. If fin sides are a result of tissue death, how is it there are guys who have taken it for years with no ill effects, but there are guys who take it for a month and end up with the full spectrum of ED libido and so forth, which does not then subside?
For many men, the worst symptoms only appeared after they quit (i.e. “the crash” that many experience). I don’t see how the theory of tissue and brain damage can explain this.
I think if it is tissue damage, people should consistently see improvement from upping their T and DHT levels, even if it does not fix them entirely.
I’m not saying it definitely isn’t this or it definitely is that, and i’m sure that damage to the prostate and penile tissue is a part of the problem, (i know it is for me) I’m just saying we put a lot of time into theorizing and as you mentioned the PFS Docs don’t really seem to have any proven strategies which is why we probably need to start putting some focus towards getting the definitive answer on what the core problem is and whether or not gene expression is involved in this.
My feeling is that it is multi faceted but if AR gene expression is part of the problem then that is something that needs to be addressed otherwise we are just going to be putting band-aids on broken bones.
I’m not sure what the first step would be, perhaps someone like Dr Jacobs, or even Dr Irwig once his study is published would be willing to lobby a lab on our behalf. If money was an issue we could set up a fund in which members could donate and perhaps even push for a grant, which may well be feasible with Irwig’s study showing the extent of this problem. I’m sure awor is doing alot behind the scenes and may have some scientists or a lab in mind and already lined up for such a study, but he is quite secretive unfortunately so i have no real idea about how much progress he has made.
Usually the FT3/RT3 ratio is best, you only have total T3. However it can also be used and the ratio should be greater than 10/1.
Yours is 3.7/1 after conversion, which per the RT3 groups and STTM states you have an RT3 problem. See the attached excel file sourced from thyroid-rt3.com and the yahoo RT3 group. It’s actually lower than the previous test of 4.2/1, but at levels this low the drop is almost not significant.
See this page about iron levels, your’s are suspect considering the huge drop and low serum iron levels:
Your TSH is also high (doubling since the last test) which signals that you’re body is trying to get your thyroid to work harder, but you’re body is producing less of everything with a higher RT3 ratio.
Cort AM readings at the high end of the range, which is good. However you should have a 24 hour panel to get a full understanding, they may tank in the afternoon.
Regarding chronic masturbation, 99% of males are guilty of this. Masturbating in a normal, healthy adult male will not cause them to crash.
Doc mentioned that Reverse T3 was [edit: “screwed up”} in the initial round of labs, and something about iron being trapped as ferritin. Now I see that all these values have dipped!?!?
He also said that he wanted to get TSH down to 1 (or less?). That anything higher indicated less thyroid hormone in the brain. And he mentioned that the high cortisol indicated something positive, that my body was capable of producing it…can’t recall his exact comment.
I’m surprised/confused at the Iron situation, because since seeing the doc, I’ve been eating whole foods per his directive, meaning meat (with the animal fat), eggs (whole), cheese (raw/milk/cultured), organic butter {all to increase the absorption of fat-soluble vitamins}, along with lots of greens/salads and consuming practically ZERO processed foods. I’ve upped my Iron intake SIGNIFICANTLY, not just through supplementation, but the aforementioned daily eggs, meats. Wondering what is happening with my vitamin processing. (Vitamin A and D have not increased significantly, either, despite eating more nutrient-dense foods and supplementation----perhaps it’s too early, perhaps there’s an explanation for how my system is chain-reacting). Sidenote, for those interested in nutrition, read: Nutrition and Physical Degeneration by Weston Price. For the easier-to-read summary of his one-of-a-kind research, read Nourishing Traditions by Sally Fallon
Some other things he mentioned: wanted to get my IGF-1 up, as it promotes Growth Hormone, that seems to have nudged up. Discussed how Finasteride lowers Progesterone which is an anti-inflammatory (and I’m in a chronic state of inflammation). I also had low body temperature…3 degrees lower than normal. And some of my temple and eyebrow hair loss (observed before any labs came back), he said strongly indicated thyroid-related loss.
Well, thanks again for explaining the values and leading me to the iron-angle, gonna read up on that further.
As far as the chronic masturbation is concerned, I know that out of my friends, I was the one pushing the limit. My impression from this forum is that most everyone here was a horndog pre-fin. It’s an interesting subject. Dr. M has several responses to the topic in this thread: http://www.definitivemind.com/forums/showthread.php?t=201
I think that all the theories need to be tested and put up to scrutiny, and it’s good that we have people pushing the envelope. We definitely should not be pissing on any one doctors’ theory/approach or patient’s protocol. Until one of us reports back with a sustained recovery and clear protocol, we can’t rule out anything. In fact, it’s great if each one of these doctors has a significant pool of us.
As far as speculating on why some people (myself) can tolerate the drug longer than others (and there WERE gradual signs that were ignored), well everyone is different. Mariano believes that there are different predisposing pathophysiologies in each individual, that the body does much to compensate for the signaling changes that occur with the drug, but for a subset of the general population, the body simply cannot adjust, everything falls apart. Perhaps you thought you were in perfect health, but perhaps you were a young stud who drank excessively, ate like shit, had existing thyroid problems, or was about to have them. Unfortunately, the bottle of Fin does not come with a clear warning: Get a complete hormonal analysis before taking this stupid pill. Test your thyroid, because this shit will definitely further screw it up. You really shouldn’t be eating the dollar menu at McDonalds. Do you really even need the few hairs this drug will save? Grow a goatee and shave your head.
Personally, I feel that most of the treatments that people undergo or self-experiment with are the very band-aids that you mention: everything from anti-axiety meds your regular physician will prescribe to antibiotics to PDE5 inhibitors to clomiphine, arimedex, etc, etc. I think you can fix the system temporarily by upping one level, but there’s a whole chain reaction of things that happen, and the end result may be another type of imbalance. The deeper you can dig, systemically, to the root causes, to the foundation of the whole matter, the more likely you’ll be able to re-build. Somebody wrote on this board that some of the particular drugs and treatments on here were not necessarily wrong, but because of the high nature of individual stories, we’ll never know if a certain thyroid medication or TRT protocol WAS the right thing, because it wasn’t necessarily executed to the precise exacting degree for that individual.
Finally, as far as getting labs involved…it’s simple…as soon as this thing gets WIDELY publicized and there’s a buck to be made off finding the “cure,” all sorts of money, grants, etc. will surface, and a bunch of poor men will be subjected to Finasteride in an experimental group.
Probably, lol. I’m still wrapping my head around this stuff. this is why I hesitate to attempt to even paraphrase what I think my doc said and have it put under scrutiny. But I do want people to know there are options out there, different approaches, and I don’t wait until I’m healed to form an opinion on the doctor or attempt to report back some of the experience. I would hope if someone’s impressed with another doc that we start hearing about it before the end of treatment.
I don’t believe this is a fair, complete, or accurate summary of his position. But the scans you suggest are interesting ideas.
Who says that symptoms didn’t creep up on people? I know that I wrote off the slight degradation of sexual performance, even stopping and re-starting taking the pill after a couple of years on it. I wasn’t in the habit of over-analyzing my penis until things completely crashed and burned. And for those that the drug affected more immediately and dramatically–well, they’re different people, right? Don’t we all suffer to a different degree? As far as seeing steady improvement…well…waiting…what can I say?
Why should it? Where is it written that it should? If you give a guy on his deathbed finasteride, he’d probably tolerate it worse than a “perfectly” healthy 20 year old. I’m not claiming penile tissue death, per se. But I am taking fish oil, among other things, to repair brain cells. One of my symptoms was short term memory loss, name recollection. I’m being treated for all my symptoms, the doctor knowing that finasteride crashed my system, but treating all present, persistent things I’m complaining about.
Stopping taking a powerful drug such as Finasteride, clearly has consequences, the system goes haywire. I hit rock bottom myself, well after quitting the drug, although the drug was not the only variable in my health profile/lifestyle. There was no claim that specifically brain damage (whatever that means) is responsible for everything, only that the challenge in treatment and reversal of all symptoms is combating the physical damage to cells, the atrophy, getting stem cells to regenerate.
I don’t know why this would be entirely true, but for me, Clomid therapy DID give me a boost of energy, DID eliminate hives that were breaking out in my genital region, buttocks, DID eliminate dry patches of skin on my shins and feet. And when I was at super-high levels of T, my nocturnals and morning/pre-fully waking up wood were much stronger, I felt like I was almost there, my morning fantasies were producing results, but I couldn’t replicate that in a fully awake state. Now, I’m completely starting over, no longer taking Clomid or Testim or Arimidex. I’m trying to find my natural baseline and go from there.
Again, every single case is different. Some people have multiple physical issues, peyronies disease, scar tissue, blocked penile arteries (genetic? injury-related? fin-induced?? not worth treating until hormonal/system is recovered?), some people have a littany of side effects, some have just a few side effects, including the ED. Case in point: I went to Dr. Mariano with a friend from this website. Same day, back to back appointments. He had a far shorter list of symptoms, and his program was different than mine. We were both, btw, operated on, just months apart.
I hope the AR angle is fully pursued, it’s fascinating, and nobody here can afford to be dogmatic about a theory. Let them all be tested. I sincerely hope that we all recover, whatever the solution turns out to be, then go to Vegas and celebrate, lol.
You make a lot of good points man, it’s true every case is different. In all physical respects i am fine but sexually i am a wreck, whilst there are people on here with no ED whatsoever, it’s good therefore that Dr Mariano is taking an individual approach.
Something i wanted to ask you was did you feel that your surgery for the blocked artery has made an improvement in your situation? I know you said Dr G was not going to operate on any more finasteride blockages. The reason i ask is i want to go and get checked by a urologist for this type of complication myself.
Thanks man. Ya know, ya just have to have faith in somebody, invest in a process, see it through, or else you’ll never have any hope, never know what treatment did what. I was a big proponent of having the mechanical aspect checked out, and Dr. G’s practice in general (and I still am). And I’m raving about my impression of Dr. Mariano’s knowledge. But before these two docs, all the other guys had NO clue. Not the regular physician, not the urologist, not the endocrinologist, who I wanted to punch in the face, quite frankly.
Seems like anytime I mention that there may be pre-disposing factors, root causes, mechanical causality, that looking beyond androgens, is at least part of the equation, that gets misinterpreted as me somehow absolving Finasteride, or Merck, or the misleading sales reps, or irresponsible docs who prescribe it, the FDA, big pharma, all the institutions and accepted practices that get a drug like this into our systems. HELL NO! I’m just saying, we are where we are. While Finasteride is the common denominator in our stories, while we share many similar symptoms, we are but a subset of the population at large, and a subset of the finasteride-taking population. ED exists outside this circle and is multi-faceted in nature. Thyroid issues, adrenal issues, genetic issues, all exist outside this circle. And they exist within this circle. If you go down the checklist of your symptoms, now that Finasteride is out of your system, and no doubt f’d up your DHT, your Progesterone, your XYZ…what are you experiencing? (I mean, everyone out there). Does it not make sense to treat the body as a whole, to focus on your immune system, vitamins, rule out things, etc, etc? Memory loss? Ok, that can be explained by a, b, c, d…insomnia? ok…one by one by one. Some or many of your symptoms may be direct A to B finasteride-caused issues, some may have been a result of the progression of other issues, some worsened by Fin, or the ability for your system to compensate lessened by the use of Fin.
Having said the above, NOPE! I don’t think the surgery improved anything (or at least, I don’t think I’d see the benefit of the repaired blood flow until the systemic issue is resolved). I think, now, in retrospect, the brief week-long recovery I felt was a temporary hormonal/system adjustment reflected in my crazy labs at the time (high T, low E, high TSH) and all the things that weren’t tested at the time. Some other systems were compensating. I think what I experienced is akin to what some people report on brief cycles of experimental creams or HCG, etc, etc. Unsustainable. (Unless you figure out the exact way to cycle something).
Which leads to many questions:
-was the surgery necessary? (I willingly submitted to it to see if that was the magic bullet)
-given that most fin patients who have their anatomy examined find that there is insufficient arterial blood flow, is this just a common genetic makeup? that wouldn’t have necessarily played a role in young age were it not for finasteride?
-or is it a by-product of finasteride?
-do both the plumbing and hormonal side need to be repaired, then?
Dr. G. doesn’t seem to have answers at this point for Finasteride, but I’ve personally spoken with a long list of people (and met one person) who had their ED resolved because of the artery issue/surgery (but no finasteride use). And an arterial blockage is but one of many physical things that can be the matter. I don’t know that many of the other docs out there who purport to have an exact answer (right or wrong), I think they’re a bit stumped, and may have leading theories, and are willing to experiment with treatments. Thus, for me, at this time, pursuing treatment at root levels with a doctor who treats systemic erectile dysfunction, acknowledges the detrimental effects of finasteride, but explains the prolonged side effects as a manifestation of a multitude of predisposing factors, and claims to be able to reverse sexual disfunction (finasteride and non-finasteride related–it’s not the only med out there that does this shit), is the most hopeful, sensical route. I’ve tried T supplementation, I’ve had a surgery, I’ve stuck my dick with needles to have sex. This is the next step for me.
I can wholeheartedly recommend Dr. G. for a thorough anatomical analysis and diagnosis. Would urge you to be measured in pursuing surgical options, depending on the particular case. I can wholeheartedly attest to the knowledge that Dr. Mariano has—I only hope he’s 100% right and that I’m not too far gone; based on my labs, I bluntly asked him to give me a realistic prognosis, an honest take, and he sounded positive that “prognosis is good” whereas he was more guarded in my initial visit.
These posts made me realize that I haven’t (knock on wood) experienced testicular pain in a while. I think this was a Clomid/Testim-related thing. I complained about it to Dr. G., but all he ever found was a cyst in my right testicle (which an earlier urologist had reported), nothing to worry about said both. The pain was from deep within, disconcerting, and not acute, but not faint either. Hard to describe.
Although Clomid is oft-prescribed, and considered safe, arimidex the same, there ARE side effects. And Mariano told me that Clomid blocks estrogens (not just the one test a lot of us get), so that’s not really great in and of itself. I’d decided to wean myself off the meds before seeing Mariano, but he endorsed seeing where my natural baseline was.
Mentioned that eventually, we’ll decide if supplementation is necessary, and that HCG was an option, that ideally T would be 600+ for best health (not the 300 threshold that endocrinologists treat at)
Colin i have been off nearly three years, i’d say my condition has “stabilized” at this point.
Xhorndog, i’ve been giving some thought to what you have said and i think it is time that i sought out a doctor to help me. So after the holidays (I’ll be away visiting my family) I am going to see an Australian doctor that was recommended to me by Dr. Crisler.
Also, i came across an article that i thought you might be interested in, and possibly Dr. Mariano aswell. It’s about using stem cells to repair damaged prostates, in fact they grew an entire mouse prostate from a single stem cell. Obviously this is some way off from being used clinically, but gives hope that if, as Dr Mariano believes, tissue damage is the cause, then all is not lost by a long shot.
In mice, the researchers were able to make individual prostate stem cells grow into new prostates. The same kind of cells can be found in humans…The identification of single cells capable of generating an entire organ, they note, “has important implications for tissue repair and regrowth”…CD117 prostate stem cells can generate functional, secretion-producing prostates when transplanted," Gao and colleagues report.
To clarify: Mariano’s basic viewpoint is that we suffer from chronic, systemic inflammation, chronic positive feedback loops that need to be broken, poor fundamental nutrition, neurotransmitter signaling problems, etc… And that each patient’s profile is different and needs to be treated as such. He treats underlying root causes of symptoms, understanding that Finasteride caused an overload to the system, but believing that Finasteride is not the only thing capable of crashing the system. Although I’ve convinced my brother and father to get off finasteride and proscar (5mg), respectively, they suffered no apparent side effects. It’s unclear if they would have, and why chance it, of course.
Point is, everyone tolerates it differently, some bodies adjust/compensate for the signaling changes that finasteride induces, for others, it’s the kiss of death…it lowers progesterone, among many other things, the body’s anti-inflammatory response, it causes a cascade of chain reactions. Despite the most basic common denominator on this forum being finasteride use and sexual dysfunction, low ejaculate volume, “brain fog”, etc., you’d be hard pressed to find 2 people with EXACTLY the same profile. That is, if you open up the bloodwork panel, and include all vitamins, 3adiolG, all hormones, etc, no 2 people would look the same, and no 2 people suffer from precisely the same list of symptoms. Thus, you might feel better by taking something that ups your Dopamine, that might have a temporary positive chain reaction, but it might not have a lasting effect either, if the root problem is not discovered and treated. One-size-fits-all treatment (upping Testosterone, for example), makes no sense to me, when there are SO many measurable levels of health to explore, many checkboxes to go down. And yeah, Testosterone, DHT and all that jazz are part of it, but doesn’t it make sense tweak all that you can via nutrition FIRST, before further supplementing hormones, powerful meds? Make the body as strong as you can (by whatever process you view credible), and then build from there?
I come and go from this board, and I’ve been reading a lot of threads the last couple of days—seems like “Nutrition” gets poo-poo’d a lot. As if nutrition is not a valid scientific position. I’m NOT of a medical background, I have no scientific background, I cannot explain a lot of the technical aspects that some rather brilliant minds on here discuss. But I’ve read enough convincing, well-researched books that document the decline of our health. And the reason? NUTRITION!!! Just a few generations ago, my family had 90 year olds. Not so, more recently. When people at whole foods, native, ethnic diets gleaned from years of natural selection, when they prepared foods in their traditional manner, they had great immunity, strong systems, far less decay. I think the definition of “eating healthy” is very screwed up, that even when we attempt to eat healthy, we are mislead by the health industry, by the silly ever-changing government-issued food pyramids, the FDA, the Heart Foundations who sell out to companies looking for their sticker of approval, the food industry, the Nutrition industry, advertising, etc.
I submit once more this book: Nutrition and Physical Degeneration by Weston Price. It’s the most dry/boring and fascinating book on nutrition I’ve ever read. The author traveled the world in the 30’s searching for indigenous populations of great health, those untouched by civilization, and monitored the effects on those that had ventured out. What he found, was astounding! Because of the time period of his travel, he was able to still find these untouched populations, and also photograph them. Those who ate their native, unprocessed diet, whether it was eskimos eating fish or swiss eating whole raw milk cheese or africans eating steer, blood and milk, he found that they were immune to dental decay, that their bone structures/facial features formed better, that they were immune to disease, that they lived longer. As soon as members of those societies traded their ways for sugars, white flour, canned goods, etc, they would get cavities, compromise their health, etc, etc. This is but a brief summary of the concept, but I believe the importance of nutrition is very misunderstood in general, and downplayed on this board. You should see these pictures! There is one striking photo of two brothers who had different diets–one is good looking, has all his teeth, the other looks like he was beaten with an ugly stick, and is missing many of his teeth. Generation to generation, the effects of the changed diets is stunning and obvious. This is despite wide-ranging diets. The common denominator, was found to be transport/absorption of fat-soluble vitamins…those found in whole milk, whole/raw cheese, cultured foods, meats, etc. Things that are black-listed today. Pre-natal special diets, the nutrition of the conceiving parents. What’s the point in all my rambling? We have compromised systems, many symptoms, and they point to root problems of nutrition and systemic well-being. I do not believe we can overcome a chronic illness with bandaid solutions or neglecting seriously addressing true nutrition, we’re talking a far bigger panel of testing than androgens. Oh yeah, one more example. Take bread. You’d be hard pressed to find a TRULY whole wheat bread product these days that didn’t have nutrition robbed from it and then re-injected (fortified) with b-vitamins, etc. Bread should only have whole wheat flour, water, yeast, I think? But most bread products on the market have 20 different bullshit things in it. Way back when, bread was nutritious! Now, it’s an inflammatory product.
Mariobros, the previous rant was not directed towards you, buddy. Thanks for the link to this study, I do find it quite interesting. As, btw, I find the epigenetics link, procaine therapy, and all the science on this board. Again, I’m not gonna knock anyone’s research or experimentation into any angle. I do feel as though the inflammation angle, the nutrition angle is give short shrift. Very unfairly so.
Hey Xorndog what up man i lost your email its B. Hows the supplement regiment treating you. I’m back to my old routine things are still pretty good hear, i think that my mental game is back to lie 80%, which is more that workable. Back to dating regular girls lol . whats ur current situation like
Another precise and clear informative post by Dr Mariano on how and what
neuros/hormones causes depression :
Originally Posted by chip douglas
Q.
Hi Marianco,
In his last book titled : ‘‘Younger you’’, Dr. Eric Braverman pathmed.com/ writes that Serotonin deficiency will often lead to depression and and as a result lead to other health issues such as :
Accelerated calcification
Lower sex drive, triggering andropause and menopause
Lowering of Testosterone leading to andropause
Lower estrogen, progesterone
Weaken the immune system
Accelerate skin aging
A. By Dr Mariano
This is one of several possible pathways. But it is too vague - the links are not clearly made. The problem is that there is no explanation as to why this all occurs - for example, what pathways are involved.
Looking at things from my point of view - that the mind is a fluid circuit involving multiple chemical messengers and multiple possible metabolic cascades/pathways:
If one specifically kills off serotonin-producing neurons - for example, by using Ecstasy or Fenfluramine (part of the FenPhen tablet that is now off the market) - then one can envison one possible cascade (out of many):
A serotonin deficit leads to a reduction in thyroid hormone production (which depends on serotonin, one of many cofactors).
A serotonin deficit also leads to loss of control over norepinephrine production (since serotonin neurons help reduce norepinephrine production from norepinephrine neurons) - leading to an increase in norepinephrine production.
The reduction in thyroid hormone production leads to a reduction in steroid hormone production from the testes - particularly a reduction in testosterone production, then estrogen production.
The increase in norepinephrine production leads to an increase in ACTH production, which leads to an increase in adrenal cortex hormone production.
Over time the chronic increase in norepinephrine production leads to adrenal fatigue, and reduced adrenal cortex hormone production.
Adrenal fatigue leads to a reduction in progesterone, DHEA, Cortisol, Pregnenolone, Aldosterone, testosterone, estrogen production.
Adrenal fatigue, lower thyroid hormone levels, lower testosterone levels leads to even higher norepinephrine production.
Lower thyroid and adrenal hormone production leads to an increase in inflammatory versus anti-inflammatory signals on the immune system, leading to an increase in inflammatory responses.
The increase in inflammatory responses leads to the development of atherosclerosis - and calcification - of the arteries.
The increase in inflammatory responses versus antiinflammatory responses leads to weakening of the immune system - inflammation, for example, in barrier cells such as the skin, allows pathogenic bacteria and viruses an easier entry into the body. Inflammation precedes infections and various diseases.
The reduction in thyroid, DHEA, testosterone and the general increase in inflammatory signals leads to a reduction in IGF-1 production from growth hormone in the liver.
The reduced production of estrogens, IGF-1, and thyroid hormone leads to an increase aging of the skin.
Lower thyroid hormone can lead to lower serotonin, lower dopamine, lower GABA production, and a further increase in norepinephrine production.
Low thyroid, testosterone, GABA, dopamine, adrenal hormone production, and higher norepinephrine production can lead to a reduction in sex drive.
I do not necessarily agree with the notion that lowering sex drive triggers andropause or menopause, or that lowering testosterone leads to andropause. These are overgeneralizations.
Andropause is an age-related phenomenon - due to age-related decline in the pituitary’s ability to make LH or due to age-related decline in the testes’ ability to produce testosterone.
Andropause is not necessarily related to a serotonin deficit - since a serotonin deficit can occur at any age, be present due to genetics (thus one is born serotonin deficient), or be induced due to drug abuse or medication adverse effects, etc. If Andropause is specifically due to a serotonin deficit, this would lead to the nonsensical scenario of a male newborn with born with a serotonin deficit being diagnosed with andropause.
Similarly, menopause is an age-related phenomenon, not necessarily related to a serotonin deficit. Rather is is related to the end of the ovaries’ ability to produce eggs. Women are born with a limited number of eggs. If the last egg is ovulated or the egg-shell surrounded the woman’s eggs become so fibrous over time that the egg cannot get out, then menopause starts.
Also, the pathway delineated above is just one of several possible scenarios. Thus any given person may take a different path with a different outcome.
For example, if a serotonin deficit occurs, then dopamine production is unleashed since serotonin production leads to a reduction in dopamine production from dopamine producing cells. Serotonin and Dopamine are joined at the hip in production.
The increase in dopamine may then lead to an increase in testosterone production, an increase in sex drive, etc. An increase in testosterone production may then increase thyroid hormone production (though it can also reduce it in some men). The end-point may then be very different or is opposite to what was previously described.
Lower serotonin may lead to depressed mood, but then it can also lead to a non-depressed mood depending on how high dopamine and it’s metabolic cascades go. Lower serotonin may then alternatively lead to violent behavior in some people (e.g. in XYY chromasome disease, the men have lower serotonin levels and tend to be more violent).
Given the possible pathways involved, it would then be up to the physician treating the patient to try to see which pathways the patient may be going through. This allows the physician to then see where the pathophysiology of illness is, then custom design a treatment to address that particular patient’s situation. One has to dance with the patient’s responses. To a physician, this is like playing jazz. The ability to improvise is the mark of a good physician.
