My 90% recovery and how i did it

[pvdl]

Do you think cancer can be cured with herbs?

You are just repeating your assertion that recovery and bench press are causally linked. Thats very unlickely as there are many who did nothing of the sort and still recovered, and many who never recovered despite working out like madmen.

Again, we keep exchanging the same arguments.

Lets agree that the studies need to be completed in a timely matter and that a healthy lifestyle is advisable in any situation.

[bizzbee333]

Uh…no actually I never said you can cure cancer with herbs. Show all the readers of this thread the particular post in which I said that. Grasping desperately now for straws!! Wait wait wait wait, I know, I know, I know…make up shit and put words in people’s mouths!! That’s the ticket!! That will discredit them!! Sorry, I think at this point we know what you really are all about. And speaking of benchpress, I never heard of it alleviating tinnitus…BUT what I have read is that it’s actually quite good at raising baseline androgens over a long period of time and turning on or activating more of 5-ar and other enzymes involved in steroidogenesis. At least I can back this up with actual studies and if people have time on their hands they can search the forum for my posts where I actually insert the abstracts of these studies to make this very important point. As a matter of fact, there have been several other members who have done the exact same thing even before me so the credit can go to them for making people aware of this. Surely you cannot deny the therapeutic value of bench pressing, I mean you’re the studies guy right? You like studies (as do I since I’ve actually published in scientific journals doing actual science so I guess you could say that I walk the walk) so you should have no problem accepting this instead of ridiculing it like some chump who hasn’t gotten rid of his high school mentality. Now scurry off.

@pvdl

You are one of the guys that think one can cure cancer with herbs.

Its like saying to a guy who suffers from tinnitus: More benchpress!!!

You should scurry off if you want to rage againsts real scientists taking us seriously.

I have nothing against people living a healthy lifestyle. None whatsoever. You want me to also endorse the message, that a healthy lifestyle will cure a chronic disease. Thats not going to happen bizziii.

[pvdl]

@bizzbee333

Uh…no actually I never said you can cure cancer with herbs. Show all the readers of this thread the particular post in which I said that. Grasping desperately now for straws!! Wait wait wait wait, I know, I know, I know…make up shit and put words in people’s mouths!! That’s the ticket!! That will discredit them!! Sorry, I think at this point we know what you really are all about. And speaking of benchpress, I never heard of it alleviating tinnitus…BUT what I have read is that it’s actually quite good at raising baseline androgens over a long period of time and turning on or activating more of 5-ar and other enzymes involved in steroidogenesis. At least I can back this up with actual studies and if people have time on their hands they can search the forum for my posts where I actually insert the abstracts of these studies to make this very important point. As a matter of fact, there have been several other members who done the exact same thing even before me so the credit can go to them for making people aware of this. Surely you cannot deny the therapeutic value of bench pressing, I mean you’re the studies guy right? You like studies (as do I since I’ve actually published in scientific journals doing actual science so I guess you could say that I walk the walk) so you should have no problem accepting this instead of ridiculing it like some chump who hasn’t gotten rid of his high school mentality. Now scurry off.

@pvdl

You are one of the guys that think one can cure cancer with herbs.

Its like saying to a guy who suffers from tinnitus: More benchpress!!!

You should scurry off if you want to rage againsts real scientists taking us seriously.

I have nothing against people living a healthy lifestyle. None whatsoever. You want me to also endorse the message, that a healthy lifestyle will cure a chronic disease. Thats not going to happen bizziii.

What I ridicule is not people trying to be proactive by living a healthy lifestyle but people discarding the studies to follow the latest guru, who presents anti estrogens as a cure, even though for many they have backfired.

[bizzbee333]

Well, last time I checked JQD was openly vocal in his support for the studies, whether he was sincere or not I don’t know but who in their right mind wouldn’t be supportive of such things? You are fabricating an issue where there IS NO ISSUE. And yes you are ridiculing just the sort of things I advocate doing, just look at your own post a few posts back before this very one. JQD’s theories and methods are haphazard and dangerous, there can be no doubt. I don’t even know if Dr. Jacobs is aware that he is taking a bone crushing amount of anti-estrogens. I understand your apprehension completely and would not try his protocol on myself and would not recommend it to others. But I admire his courage in not resigning himself to just waiting and doing nothing. He has the courage to try something new, even if drastic and unproven, and if others want to follow along with it then they must know that it is extremely risky and foolhardy, but they are adults. Yet there is a tacit understanding amongst most that something useful or good may come out of all that dangerous experimentation. Time will tell.

@pvdl

@bizzbee333

Uh…no actually I never said you can cure cancer with herbs. Show all the readers of this thread the particular post in which I said that. Grasping desperately now for straws!! Wait wait wait wait, I know, I know, I know…make up shit and put words in people’s mouths!! That’s the ticket!! That will discredit them!! Sorry, I think at this point we know what you really are all about. And speaking of benchpress, I never heard of it alleviating tinnitus…BUT what I have read is that it’s actually quite good at raising baseline androgens over a long period of time and turning on or activating more of 5-ar and other enzymes involved in steroidogenesis. At least I can back this up with actual studies and if people have time on their hands they can search the forum for my posts where I actually insert the abstracts of these studies to make this very important point. As a matter of fact, there have been several other members who done the exact same thing even before me so the credit can go to them for making people aware of this. Surely you cannot deny the therapeutic value of bench pressing, I mean you’re the studies guy right? You like studies (as do I since I’ve actually published in scientific journals doing actual science so I guess you could say that I walk the walk) so you should have no problem accepting this instead of ridiculing it like some chump who hasn’t gotten rid of his high school mentality. Now scurry off.

@pvdl

You are one of the guys that think one can cure cancer with herbs.

Its like saying to a guy who suffers from tinnitus: More benchpress!!!

You should scurry off if you want to rage againsts real scientists taking us seriously.

I have nothing against people living a healthy lifestyle. None whatsoever. You want me to also endorse the message, that a healthy lifestyle will cure a chronic disease. Thats not going to happen bizziii.

What I ridicule is not people trying to be proactive by living a healthy lifestyle but people discarding the studies to follow the latest guru, who presents anti estrogens as a cure, even though for many they have backfired.

[pvdl]

@bizzbee333

Well, last time I checked JQD was openly vocal in his support for the studies, whether he was sincere or not I don’t know but who in their right mind wouldn’t be supportive of such things? You are fabricating an issue where there IS NO ISSUE. And yes you are ridiculing just the sort of things I advocate doing, just look at your own post a few posts back before this very one. JQD’s theories and methods are haphazard and dangerous, there can be no doubt. I don’t even know if Dr. Jacobs is aware that he is taking a bone crushing amount of anti-estrogens. I understand your apprehension completely and would not try his protocol on myself and would not recommend it to others. But I admire his courage in not resigning himself to just waiting and doing nothing. He has the courage to try something new, even if drastic and unproven, and if others want to follow along with it then they must know that it is extremely risky and foolhardy, but they are adults. Yet there is a tacit understanding amongst most that something useful or good may come out of all that dangerous experimentation. Time will tell.

If the studies were filled more quickly I would be more optimistic, that these protocols and science are not conflicting.

Anyways. Have a nice day.

Lets not argue about this, PFS is exhausting enough.

[bizzbee333]

You do as you please and think as you please. These protocols that I advocate ARE based on and naturally follow from science, not some kind of quackery. You have a good day too. Bye bye.

@pvdl

@bizzbee333

Well, last time I checked JQD was openly vocal in his support for the studies, whether he was sincere or not I don’t know but who in their right mind wouldn’t be supportive of such things? You are fabricating an issue where there IS NO ISSUE. And yes you are ridiculing just the sort of things I advocate doing, just look at your own post a few posts back before this very one. JQD’s theories and methods are haphazard and dangerous, there can be no doubt. I don’t even know if Dr. Jacobs is aware that he is taking a bone crushing amount of anti-estrogens. I understand your apprehension completely and would not try his protocol on myself and would not recommend it to others. But I admire his courage in not resigning himself to just waiting and doing nothing. He has the courage to try something new, even if drastic and unproven, and if others want to follow along with it then they must know that it is extremely risky and foolhardy, but they are adults. Yet there is a tacit understanding amongst most that something useful or good may come out of all that dangerous experimentation. Time will tell.

If the studies were filled more quickly I would be more optimistic, that these protocols and science are not conflicting.

Anyways. Have a nice day.

Lets not argue about this, PFS is exhausting enough.

[bizzbee333]

You do as you please and think as you please. These protocols that I and others before me have advocated ARE based on science, therefore they cannot be self-conflicting. The science you speak of with these studies has only begun to trickle in and has not materialized to a substantial form just yet, so you’re implying there exists some kind of conflict when none actually exist just yet if at all. If this new science conflicts with previous studies that the protocol I use is based on then you’d have an argument. But you don’t have a real argument and you just talk out of your ass sometimes in order to sound smart and informed but you don’t seem to think things through before you offer a reply. What’s exhausting is trying to reason properly with someone like you. I should have known better.

@pvdl

@bizzbee333

Well, last time I checked JQD was openly vocal in his support for the studies, whether he was sincere or not I don’t know but who in their right mind wouldn’t be supportive of such things? You are fabricating an issue where there IS NO ISSUE. And yes you are ridiculing just the sort of things I advocate doing, just look at your own post a few posts back before this very one. JQD’s theories and methods are haphazard and dangerous, there can be no doubt. I don’t even know if Dr. Jacobs is aware that he is taking a bone crushing amount of anti-estrogens. I understand your apprehension completely and would not try his protocol on myself and would not recommend it to others. But I admire his courage in not resigning himself to just waiting and doing nothing. He has the courage to try something new, even if drastic and unproven, and if others want to follow along with it then they must know that it is extremely risky and foolhardy, but they are adults. Yet there is a tacit understanding amongst most that something useful or good may come out of all that dangerous experimentation. Time will tell.

If the studies were filled more quickly I would be more optimistic, that these protocols and science are not conflicting.

Anyways. Have a nice day.

Lets not argue about this, PFS is exhausting enough.

[/quote]

[pvdl]

@bizzbee333

You do as you please and think as you please. These protocols that I and others before me have advocated ARE based on science, therefore they cannot be self-conflicting. The science you speak of with these studies has only begun to trickle in and has not materialized to a substantial form just yet, so you’re implying there exists some kind of conflict when none actually exist just yet if at all. If this new science conflicts with previous studies that the protocol I use is based on then you’d have an argument. But you don’t have a real argument and you just talk out of your ass sometimes in order to sound smart and informed but you don’t seem to think things through before you offer a reply. What’s exhausting is trying to reason properly with someone like you. I should have known better.

@pvdl

@bizzbee333

Well, last time I checked JQD was openly vocal in his support for the studies, whether he was sincere or not I don’t know but who in their right mind wouldn’t be supportive of such things? You are fabricating an issue where there IS NO ISSUE. And yes you are ridiculing just the sort of things I advocate doing, just look at your own post a few posts back before this very one. JQD’s theories and methods are haphazard and dangerous, there can be no doubt. I don’t even know if Dr. Jacobs is aware that he is taking a bone crushing amount of anti-estrogens. I understand your apprehension completely and would not try his protocol on myself and would not recommend it to others. But I admire his courage in not resigning himself to just waiting and doing nothing. He has the courage to try something new, even if drastic and unproven, and if others want to follow along with it then they must know that it is extremely risky and foolhardy, but they are adults. Yet there is a tacit understanding amongst most that something useful or good may come out of all that dangerous experimentation. Time will tell.

If the studies were filled more quickly I would be more optimistic, that these protocols and science are not conflicting.

Anyways. Have a nice day.

Lets not argue about this, PFS is exhausting enough.

[/quote]
I thought we had settled this. I log in and have to read another personal attack, after I have tried to settle thing down a little.

Anyway, you dont seem to grasp my argument: There is no scientific understanding of our disease, we dont even know the exact mechanism let alone how to treat it. Everything you say is wishful thinking at best and stupidity at worst. Yes you read some study about how workouts have some effects on X, and then say that X is the cause of PFS. All of this is bs, bizzbee. Your lifestyle changes are great, with or without PFS. However to come on here and say that you have a scientifically proven treatment, let alone that studies are backing your workouts, is bs. Because YOU! not the researchers are making this connection. No one knows how to treat this and why some improve and most dont.

Anyway, I thought we had agreed to disagree. I dont need to attack you, even though I think you are misguided.

[pvdl]

Let me give you a counter example:

My brother has been working out since the start of this disease. He has until now deteriorated at exactly the same rate with very similar symptoms.

Of course, that proves absolutely nothing, but if workouts really did have a huge impact, you would see a big difference between us.

I understand that you want to be proactive. I would never be so arrogant to tell you not to change your lifestyle. Thats great and I hope you recover even further.

See you.

[pvdl]

---

[bizzbee333]

Does 70% recovery sound like stupidity or wishful thinking? I don’t presume to know the etiology or the EXACT biochemical mechanism for how PFS manifests. I really don’t need to though do I? All I need to know is what works and what doesn’t empirically, through trialling different regimes. The one I have now currently works the best and has yielded the greatest results (and no it’s not as simple as eating grass and doing bench presses, only a fool would make such an oversimplication and mockery). And when you analyze it through the lens of scientific objectivity you will find that it is remarkably effective at raising Testosterone, DHT, and Vitamin D while decreasing Estrogen naturally. It has also worked for many others. To dismiss this as BULLSHIT and then to accuse someone of trying to somehow supplant professional scientific process and inquiry with some kind of nonsensical pseudo-science is to truly flirt with real STUPIDITY. I’m sorry things didn’t work out for your brother. Just because it doesn’t work for you or your brother doesn’t mean it won’t work for others. Tough shit buddy, maybe you’re more fucked than others.

[visionquest99]

Dont waste your energy on this one, bizzbee.

[bizzbee333]

I won’t. Not anymore.

@visionquest99

Dont waste your energy on this one, bizzbee.

[5_alpha_victim]

@mcibofh

1. This syndrome isn’t just about ED. I can get it up just fine thank you.

2. You were ecstatic about studies and now you just sit here an argue about fitness.

3. No amount of grass eating and weight lifting is going to fix the vision problems this shit caused.

4. You were stupid enough to try an anti-androgen again and yet we should listen to your superior knowledge about how to make this better.

We have CDnuts and Chi’s story here. We don’t need your condescending useless attitude spewing nonsense all over.

@bizzbee333

You can disagree and cast doubt on it all you want. The facts still hold. The method outlined by Chi and Cdnuts clearly works for some and is directly causal to a recovery. If they hadn’t followed it, as they attest to it themselves, they would have remained put in the same condition. They and others were willing to put in the hard work and have reaped the rewards. You, on the other hand, are content with petty bickering and slandering. They are the doers and you are the naysayer who will get nowhere with your sulky, childish attitude that has run amok on this website. I am also reaping the benefits. I have never undertaken a regimen like this before for so long and stayed in misery for years (which you like to point out in your little snide, callow remarks) not knowing what it was that was keeping me back. Now I am at the point in which most days it’s not even a thought, I only come here to encourage others to try and perservere like I did. It was extremely taxing and difficult during the worst of this condition to have the will to even get out of bed, let alone go to a gym and workout to failure. But that’s what I did, as well as others. Ironically enough, I recovered briefly several years back following a program much like this one only to become vain again by using anti-androgens to regrow what little hair was left on my head. I would have stayed recovered if I had accepted my own looks and been content with just being healthy. You should listen more and learn instead of shouting others down on some internet forum with you bloviating on the importance of studies. I sat in the doctor’s office seven years ago with a world renowned sex medicine specialist wondering why studies weren’t underway then and why the medical community was as apathetic as they were at the time towards this condition. I was ecstatic to hear recently that they had finally begun doing what I was desperately hoping for back then: actual studies. But I wasn’t going to wait, I knew I had to do something on my own otherwise I would spend the better part of my youth living as a eunuch, a very real possibility for you with your attitude. So don’t presume to know what others think or opine until you have stepped in their shoes. Now scurry off.

If you don’t have ED I would consider yourself really lucky. If you are not suffering from the sexual sides of PFS I think you should move on with your life.

No other PFS symptoms are worse dwelling over. Go get a girlfriend and Injoy your life brother.

[5_alpha_victim]

@pvdl

---

Hey, I think you forgot sometimes that time is a factor here.

Correct me if I’m wrong but bizzybee has been suffering for longer than you…

Deff not a cure or really even a solid proven treatment but if you continue to burn body fat, eat right and take vit D with time you will notice improvements in at least some of your symptoms. Not to mention it will make you feel like you are more in control of this situation.

No ones saying it’s s cure, just some stuff you can do to feel a little better. Also regardless of his it makes you feel, worse, better or the same make sure your Total and free T are At health levels along with your SHBG and estrogen.

It’s prob a likely out come that you (we) will never get better but for now and possible forever this is all we can do…

And before you flip out yes also get in on the studies if you can and donate if you can.

The guy who started this thread obviously crashed from taking the DHT inhibiter but got luck and experinced a mild crash and got even luckier when he recoverd 90 percent from his mild crash.

It’s also obvious thAt the things he did helped and certainly did not hurt his recovery.

We can’t be mad At people who crash less than we do…

You deff need a change in attitude if you want to survive this.

I feel like I’m giving you good advice

[PropeciaSurvivor]

Just revisiting my post and I’m pleasantly surprised at the amount of people who have read it already.

For those who asked questions, my vitamin D intake was 2000IU’s a day (or 2 pills).

Try not to listen to the nay sayers to much guys. Most of them haven’t bothered to lift there butts of the couch and try anything on this website. I can totally understand how devastating PFS can be and how pessimistic it can make you. There were days were I just thought I would never recover. DON’T think like that. You have the rest of your life to recover, the human body is an amazing thing. All I can give you is my personal experience and what I found to help me regain my health. If you scoff at the idea of doing serious strength training and eating a great diet then I feel sorry for you. Just give it a go. It’s not like it’s going to hurt you for goodness sake. Life throws shit at you, don’t just give up, what kind of willpower is that. I became aggressively obsessed with trying everything as hard as I could until I found some kind of improvement.

Again I can’t say “THIS WILL WORK” but it did for me. And NO it was not in my head. How can you guys who’ve been through this too say that?

Give it a serious go, get into a gym and lift some heavy weights. Eat well and stay rested. Take your Vit D.

If anyone has any questions at all, ask me. If I miss them and don’t reply, ask me again.

Good luck everyone.

[mcibofh]

This is a package of shit. Fatigue, muscle weakness, vision problems, ect. Its not a, wow I can get a boner, I am cured situation.

@5 alpha victim

@mcibofh

1. This syndrome isn’t just about ED. I can get it up just fine thank you.

2. You were ecstatic about studies and now you just sit here an argue about fitness.

3. No amount of grass eating and weight lifting is going to fix the vision problems this shit caused.

4. You were stupid enough to try an anti-androgen again and yet we should listen to your superior knowledge about how to make this better.

We have CDnuts and Chi’s story here. We don’t need your condescending useless attitude spewing nonsense all over.

@bizzbee333

You can disagree and cast doubt on it all you want. The facts still hold. The method outlined by Chi and Cdnuts clearly works for some and is directly causal to a recovery. If they hadn’t followed it, as they attest to it themselves, they would have remained put in the same condition. They and others were willing to put in the hard work and have reaped the rewards. You, on the other hand, are content with petty bickering and slandering. They are the doers and you are the naysayer who will get nowhere with your sulky, childish attitude that has run amok on this website. I am also reaping the benefits. I have never undertaken a regimen like this before for so long and stayed in misery for years (which you like to point out in your little snide, callow remarks) not knowing what it was that was keeping me back. Now I am at the point in which most days it’s not even a thought, I only come here to encourage others to try and perservere like I did. It was extremely taxing and difficult during the worst of this condition to have the will to even get out of bed, let alone go to a gym and workout to failure. But that’s what I did, as well as others. Ironically enough, I recovered briefly several years back following a program much like this one only to become vain again by using anti-androgens to regrow what little hair was left on my head. I would have stayed recovered if I had accepted my own looks and been content with just being healthy. You should listen more and learn instead of shouting others down on some internet forum with you bloviating on the importance of studies. I sat in the doctor’s office seven years ago with a world renowned sex medicine specialist wondering why studies weren’t underway then and why the medical community was as apathetic as they were at the time towards this condition. I was ecstatic to hear recently that they had finally begun doing what I was desperately hoping for back then: actual studies. But I wasn’t going to wait, I knew I had to do something on my own otherwise I would spend the better part of my youth living as a eunuch, a very real possibility for you with your attitude. So don’t presume to know what others think or opine until you have stepped in their shoes. Now scurry off.

If you don’t have ED I would consider yourself really lucky. If you are not suffering from the sexual sides of PFS I think you should move on with your life.

No other PFS symptoms are worse dwelling over. Go get a girlfriend and Injoy your life brother.

[5_alpha_victim]

Fatigue- sleep more, get use to being tired all the time, consider asking your doc for meds to increase energy, stop being a pussy (that problems fixed)

Muscel weakness- work out more to make up for fact that your muscles and body no longer respond to your hormones the right way and again stop being a pussy. (That problem is fixed)

Vision problems- get fucking glasses ( problem fixed)

Fatigue and muscel wrakness I already suffer from and I’ll swap my Ed for vision problems any fucking day of the week and in return go live a normal life.

[5_alpha_victim]

@PropeciaSurvivor

Just revisiting my post and I’m pleasantly surprised at the amount of people who have read it already.

For those who asked questions, my vitamin D intake was 2000IU’s a day (or 2 pills).

Try not to listen to the nay sayers to much guys. Most of them haven’t bothered to lift there butts of the couch and try anything on this website. I can totally understand how devastating PFS can be and how pessimistic it can make you. There were days were I just thought I would never recover. DON’T think like that. You have the rest of your life to recover, the human body is an amazing thing. All I can give you is my personal experience and what I found to help me regain my health. If you scoff at the idea of doing serious strength training and eating a great diet then I feel sorry for you. Just give it a go. It’s not like it’s going to hurt you for goodness sake. Life throws shit at you, don’t just give up, what kind of willpower is that. I became aggressively obsessed with trying everything as hard as I could until I found some kind of improvement.

Again I can’t say “THIS WILL WORK” but it did for me. And NO it was not in my head. How can you guys who’ve been through this too say that?

Give it a serious go, get into a gym and lift some heavy weights. Eat well and stay rested. Take your Vit D.

If anyone has any questions at all, ask me. If I miss them and don’t reply, ask me again.

Good luck everyone.

Congratulations on your recovery. Please share any more info you feel is useful