Microdosing epinephrine for cognitive and sexual improvement

Therapeutic Efforts
#15

Except that in this case my urine neurotransmitter results are consistent with Melchangi’s scientific study that did not use urine samples

I test once and have low dopamine and norepinephrine in my urine. I take supplements for 64 days and test again and my dopamine and norepinephrine in my urine is higher. Are you telling me that I can’t conclude that I probably increased the amount of dopamine and norepinephrine that my body was producing? After seeing that both values are higher in my urine ? Why do you think these values in my urine increased after taking all three things above dopamine in the chart I posted? Did these values in my urine increase by not producing more while taking all three things that make dopamine? I’m interested to hear more about your thoughts on this. In other words how did that extra dopamine and norepinephrine get in my urine…

#16

So? Doesn’t mean that they’re accurate. There’s reasons why he didn’t use urine samples.

Just because you recorded higher levels after two months of supplementation again, does not make it one samples a reliable measure of those biomarkers which is why they’re tweely used in studies.

#17

Melchangi wanted to know exactly what was happening in the adrenal glands with norepinephrine to epinephrine production and used rodents I believe

We could make the claim “how do we know these results are accurate”

With this stuff nothing is ever going to be certain

If I take supplements to increase dopamine, norepinephrine and epinephrine and see both values increase in my urine with before and after testing I have no reason to believe that my results were not accurate. I’m going to lean towards trusting the lab over trusting your opinion which is based off nothing. I’m not saying that my urine values are telling me what was happening in the adrenal glands. But i am saying if I’m peeing out higher amounts in urine seen in before and after testing it was probable because I was producing more while on the amino’s. You have not convinced me otherwise.

I also crashed while on these supplements. So clearly they increased or decreased something significant to my disorder. I did not crash on amino’s simply because my body had more amino acids. Amino acids make neurotransmitters

#18

@orthogs show me your sources for your statement:

“neurotransmitters urinalysis not being accurate and not being used in scientific studies”

Here is info to the contrary:

“Studies have demonstrated a link between central nervous system neurotransmitter activity and urinary transmitter output”

“A study in rats examined the effects of oral ingestion of the serotonin precursor, 5-hydroxytryptophan (5-HTP), on specific brain regions. Serotonin levels were measured using brain tissue immunoreactivity and urinalysis”

“The researchers noted maximum serotonin immunoreactivity in the serotonergic dorsal raphe nucleus within 2 hours of administration”

“Urinary analysis of serotonin, 5-HTP, and 5-hydroxyindolacetic acid (the major metabolite of serotonin) mirrored the changes observed in immunoreactivity, suggesting a positive correlation between CNS and urinary serotonin levels”

“Another study in rats investigated the effect of induced hemiparkinsonism on the metabolism of catecholamines, as well as the relationship between cerebral catecholamine content and urinary catecholamine excretion”

“A positive correlation between urinary and striatal dopamine concentrations was demonstrated. Interestingly, the researchers concluded that measurement of urinary catecholamines and their metabolites is a prospective test for evaluating the status of the dopaminergic nigrostriatal system of the brain in experimental parkinsonism”

#19
#20

I read the whole thing. Not very carefully but a light read.

It’s certainly making it clear that urine neurotransmitter values are not representative of neurotransmitter levels in the CNS. I think we know that already though …

Also it’s making it clear that serotonin and dopamine produced in response to taking amino acids does not cross the blood brain barrier.

Lastly it’s saying that the only useful info that urine neurotransmitter values do provide is when you have before amino acid and after amino acid testing which I did have

Seeing that my constipation gets substantially better when I ever take the amino acids that produce serotonin I wonder if this means anything important. I read that most serotonin is actually produced in the gut and that serotonin in the gut helps stimulate bowel movements. So I wonder if the fact that this is saying that the extra serotonin from the amino acid supplementation can’t cross the blood brain barrier is not relevant as far as the specific benefits that I see when increasing urinary serotonin… because if the amino acid supplementation is making serotonin in my gut that’s helping me poop better . I don’t know Just throwing out ideas.

So I’ll agree urine neurotransmitter levels are unreliable as far as giving fool proof answers which you are clearly looking for. But I can’t in my own experience agree that they are not relevant. I’ll have to read everything in this study more carefully when I have more time

What’s your opinion on urine Allopregnanolone and 3a-diol levels?

This study address urinary serotonin and dopamine levels only it looks like.

Also the chart I posted still does not lie as far as SAMe being a co factor for norepinephrine to Epinephrine production. And myself as well as one of the moderators got worse from taking SAMe. SAMe obviously could be doing other things. But I find the fact that it’s a co factor involved in producing epinephrine that Melchangi is suggesting we may be low in is interesting. And my theory and opinion remains that it’s not a production being low vs high in epinephrine issue but rather a regulation issue. And I still think we should find out if more PFS people have high Allopregnanolone and 3a-diol in their urine or high pregnenolone sulfate in their Saliva like I do. We may want to consider urine Allopregnanolone and 3a-diol unreliable in general but what if several PFS patients have high amounts of Allopregnanolone and 3a-diol in our urine and if non PFS patients don’t…

Would this just a big unreliable by chance thing?

#21

Guys, help me a find a source for epinephrine!

#22

SAMe (2)
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Maybe consider trying to increase it on your own starting from the beginning of the pathway

People bring up valid points on why the amount of it in our urine can’t be one hundred percent replied upon as gospel. But that still doesn’t change the fact it’s made in the body using the things at the beginning of the pathway. Maybe epinephrine increasing in our urine is a sign our overall production of it increased maybe it’s not. What the body does with it is what the body is going to do with it.

Personally I think that if I take Phenylalanine, Throsine and DOPA and see dopamine and norepinephrine increase in my urine with out epinephrine increasing which for the record I already seen this happen I think it’s probable not something to ignore. But obviously this is guess work and there is no guarantees here.

So if PNMT enzyme is not working properly for what ever reason we can increase norepinephrine all we want and we may not be able to get that extra epinephrine which is the point of your trial. But the only way to know is to try.

I’ll run a trial on this. WTF not…
As soon as I start I’ll update this thread
Last time I crashed in November of 2020 I was on Phenylalanine, Throsine and DOPA . But I was also on several other things including SAMe…

This time I’m not taking SAMe. I’ll do the Phenylalanine, Throsine and L-DOPA. I’ll also stay on the L-Tryptophan, 5-HTP and vitamin B6 for serotonin production that I started back up a few days ago already anyway. This way I’m going for increasing serotonin and dopamine at the same time which based on what I read in theory is the better way to do it seeing that serotonin and dopamine should be balanced similar to how GABA and Glutamate should be balanced

I’m taking a huge risk here because everything I have listed here are all things I was taking when I crashed into horrible insomnia at the end of November 2020. But this time I’m not taking SAMe or taking anything to increase GABA and Glutamate. So I’m targeting just serotonin and dopamine this time to decrease the risk of crashing again hopefully. Also I have went back on the serotonin supplements 5 times now for short periods of time since crashing at the end of November 2020 and haven’t crashed again. So the major risk with this trial will be increasing dopamine, norepinephrine and epinephrine which I haven’t tried doing since I crashed last…

Melchangi is suggesting we are low in epinephrine as the possible cause of our sexual sides. Maybe epinephrine is being kept low for a reason because something else is out of wack and increasing epinephrine makes me crash…

Unfortunately this is what my life is. A PFS nightmare experiment. But this experiment is locked in and ready to go. I’ll just go right into it and start taking all three with the Phenylalanine, Throsine and L- DOPA. I’ll shoot for about 14 days. Hopefully last time I crashed was because I took everything for 64 days and it was just too much

You can try ordering the epinephrine from China…

#23

I read today that mucuna pruriens raise adrenaline… I don’t really know how else you can get a hold of it other than the black market (no joke).

#24

Thanks Moony. This line of "These findings suggest that the altered hormonal levels were due to a reduction of the enzymatic activity rather than to decreased levels of PNMT.*” isn’t entirely clear to me but it seems like PNMT may be there in sufficient quantities but for whatever reason the enzymatic properties of it are not converting nor to epi. Am I interpreting that right? I wonder if increasing PNMT instead of epinephrine would somehow jumpstart its enzymatic purpose and better balance out the nor to epi ratio. I’m emailing a few doctors to see what they think and will report back.
I can’t seem to find on google any supplements to increase PNMT directly in the body.

#25

It’s my understanding that mucuna pruriens contains L-Dopa which converts to dopamine which converts to norepinephrine which converts to Epinephrine

Now obviously I’m assuming the enzyme that converts norepinephrine to Epinephrine has to work to get to Epinephrine at the end of the pathway .

So I’m thinking that hit the beginning of the pathway all at once with everything. Mucuna, phenylalanine and tyrosine with the necessary cofactors of course . May want to avoid SAMe though . Its risky

#26

I’ve tried it with no positive effect.

#27

SAMe is the co factor for the PNMT enzyme that converts norepinephrine to epinephrine. The PNMT needs SAMe to work. In theory you could take SAMe and end up with more PNMT enzyme activity. But I would use caution with this. SAMe is one of the things I was on when I crashed into PFS level onset level insomnia in November of 2020. My sleep is still not completely recovered back to baseline over that. Close but not completely . I’m suspicious of this . My theory is that the body is keeping the PNMT enzyme activity low for the specific purpose of keeping epinephrine low. Because if it’s not low we react very badly to it. Just a hunch . Take it with a grain. Unfortunately the only way to know is to experiment and it’s a very dangerous game. If I’m right I need to figure out what needs to be corrected that will allow normal epinephrine levels without having an extreme insomnia relapse type reaction. Again this is all speculation and attempts to connect the dots based on the available info and my own experience

SAMe (2)
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1 Like
#28

What did you try epinephrine? Or everything at the beginning of the pathway ?

Did you also take the cofactors?

And for how long did you try it ?

#29

Not epinephrine.

#30

Thanks 5-Alf. Anyone know if there are tests for the general public to easily check levels of PNMT or SAMe? Has anyone gotten them done?

#31

I’ve been doing the Wim Hof breathing techniques along with cold showers and fasting for 24 hours at a time a few times a week. All of these increase epinephrine and lower norepinephrine.

I’ve been doing these for about a month now and have noticed that my sleep has been getting better, my fatigue levels have been getting better, my tinnitus is gone, and my erections are getting stronger. I’m even getting more consistent size in my penis both flaccid and erect. I wish I’d started this earlier. Overall, I feel much better and I’m convinced it’s because of the effects that these therapies have on epinephrine/norepinephrine.

#32

Good stuff. I can see how they increase epinephrine, but can you show some proof/research that these decrease norepinephrine as well?

#33

I hate to break it off for you guys, but you literally CANT microdose Adrenalin in any form…Its way to dangerous, and you can end up really hurting yourselves…I remember a colleague of a friend of mine, who got a small drop of Adrenalin in a very diluted solution in his eye while he was injecting a patient with a cardiac arrest…His pulse got to 160/min and we had to take him to the ER…The Dosis he got in his eye must have been waaaaay waaaay little to even measure by any high tech home scale…It was a solution of 100ug/ml…

#34

I’m going to agree with you on this one and I have experimented with some risky things.

Besides, I think it’s more about correcting the imbalance that causes low norepinephrine to Epinephrine conversion. I think Melchangi is on the right track with neurotransmitters as I believe at least in my own case this is the problem. But I also think he’s trying to overly simplify it by saying more epinephrine will equal correction of sexual sides. For all we know epinephrine is lowered in an attempt to correct the problem. And you can likely get more epinephrine the natural way by taking the predecessors and co factors listed in the chart I posted.