Methylation Block/Glutathione Depletion-Treatment Discussion

Therapeutic Efforts Supplements & Lifestyle
#16

Basically, TMG made me feel much better with my neurological side effects but did not stopped them completely. The same happened with NAC which actually made me a new person comparing to the fact i was feeling totally sick at the time. As droit suggested i also felt that it would be better to boost my methylation cycle as opposed to supplying with NAC to boost glutathione as there are so many other things involved during the methylation cycle (Taurine, SAMe, Creatine, etc)

Phospahtidylserine seemed to stop completely my neurological side effects but i cannot be sure at the moment whether this particular supplement did it. I also read that Phosphatidylserine helps HPTA axis so that is an added benefit. I will up the dose to 300 mg and ditch the TMG to see what happens although Methyl donors were always good for me (apart from methyl B12). It appears that my neurological side effects have to do with SAMe production and this is the reason why i felt much better with TMG. Since PS increases BHMT activity then perhaps there will be no need to use TMG at all.

We should keep in mind that finding a balance with all of this is not a simple task. Look what happened with my sleep : I totally forgot about supplementing with Vit D3 and i gradually ended up sleeping only for 5 hours each day (again). Would only Folate and TMG help me for Insomnia? Probably not.

I had so many side effects and it all went away slowly and steadily so there is definitely something going on with Methylation. OTOH, my Hypogonadism and Hypothyroidism that i experienced after quitting Propecia haven’t been fixed with Methylation but Forskolin did fix these two conditions.

#17

what do you mean forskoline fixed your hypogonadism?

#18

It means that my Free Testosterone levels have tripled (i had below normal levels, more specifically secondary hypogonadism) and also my TSH was lowered (Sublclinical Hypothyroidism). I had to inject HCG twice weekly to keep up my Free T and receive 62mcg of T4 daily to fix my subcl. Hypothyroidism

#19

so what fixed your hypogondism forskoline or hcg?

#20

Forskolin did (100 mg standardized / day). In about a month of use both my Free T and TSH went back to normal levels, so HCG and T4 supplementation was no longer necessary.

#21

mmm so maybe i will try it.
are you still on it?
and could you give me a link to what exactly you took?

#22

Had some more questions on my b12/folate dosing, timing, etc.

I found this post of mine from Sept/12:

I take one b12 and 5-MTHF in the morning… One cal and mag capsule at bedtime. Also upped my fish oil to 3 a day.

For the last 3 weeks my energy and mental clarity has been perfect. I’m actually needing less sleep, too. Just a few months ago, I was thinking of trying provigil due to excessive fatigue.

I’m also having sex or masturbating 5 times a week and the ejaculation volume is much more than it has been. The orgasm feels better, too.

I think perhaps the folate, rather than folic acid is a main reason for my new found energy.

Presently just taking 1 mg B12, 400-800 mcg of folate. Think it was September/13 when I lowered the doses. The year in between was mostly 2mg B12 and 1-2mg folate. I have felt steady at this dose and not felt like there was a drop off. I will at some point do a trial of higher mg’s of folate because I think it has a chance to do more good things. Right now I’m working on improving my diet.

#23

Hi Guys,

Here is my update with my current regimen. I have very Good News. For the first time, no neurological side effects, sleeping very well, orgasm intensity returning slowly back to normal, very good erections so it appears that everything is in sync. What made the difference was the increase of Phosphatidylserine to at least 300 mg per day and also the addition of 5000 IU of Vitamin D3 (this helped with better sleep quality).

My Regimen :

Morning :
100 mg Forskolin
5000 IU Vit D3
300 mg Phosphatidylserine (Now Brand)
TMG (1000 mg)
Taurine 500 mg
Metafolin 1600 mcg

Evening (around 20:00 PM)
1000 mg TMG
Metafolin 800 mcg

I know that this quite heavy and i am planning to slowly move to an absolute minimum of supplements. I will first try to remove Forskolin as it might well be that Phosphatidylserine helps to restore HPTA function.

Next, i do not know if i could ditch TMG but since being a methyl donor, methyl donors have always helped me. Taurine has helped me in stopping my “Tinnitus attacks” which i now believe was due to Glutamate over-excitation. Vit D3 essential for proper sleep so i am also keeping this one. Metafolin needs further trials as i do not know whether higher dosages would be beneficial. So to recap :

  1. Phosphatidylserine 300 mg (but not less) has stopped my neurological side effects and restored Orgasm intensity
  2. Vitamin D3 5000 IU restored proper sleep function
  3. Taurine helped with Glutamate over-excitation

Further testing needed for

-Forskolin : It definitely helped with my hypothyroidism and hypogonadism but maybe high-dose Phosphatidylserine helps restore proper HPTA function. OTOH Forskolin boosts Pregnenolone production which could be very important for PFS.
-Metafolin : I am not sure if higher dosage is warranted but i would definitely go for at least 4000 mg / day to see how i am feeling.

PS : Perhaps the best book i’ve ever read is “TextBook of Natural Medicine” by Pizzorno, Murray ISBN: 978-1-4377-2333-5. It has everything about Methylation, cAMP, Forskolin, etc.

#24

mariovitali, or anyone

When you say you have used 100mg Forskolin, what % extract of Forskolin do the tablets have? I have seen all variety of mg’s and % of tabs advertised and it is confusing

#25

Yes Man, sorry you are right. It is 250mg standardized to 20%. That means that i have to take two tablets to reach 100mg

UPDATE :

First of all i am continuing to feel great again : Due to a trip in UK i forgot to take my TMG tablets and rushed to buy an equivalent brand here. It took me two days to find the stuff and the one i found provided 500 mg of TMG per tablet… So for about 5 days that i was getting the new brand of TMG i started feeling really bad with all of my neurological side effects coming back. I then realized that the brand i was using back home (NOW brand) was 1000mg per pill whereas i was now getting 500mg. I started the correct dose of TMG which in my case is 3 grams per day and all sides subsided within a day.

So TMG is definitely needed. The problem -as i discussed before- is that i need to cut back on all of the stuff i am getting so perhaps i will try to cut PhosphatidylSerine or at least lower the dosage to see what happens. The other problem is that i am not sure what has helped me in restoring my anorgasmia (whether it was TMG or PS) so this is somethingi will be looking at over the next days.

My Current Regimen :

Morning (around 7:30 am):

  1. 5000 IU Vitamin D3
  2. Forskolin 100 mg (two tabs of 250 mg standardized to 20%)
  3. Phosphatidylserine 300 mg (3 x 100 mg tabs)
  4. TMG 1000 mg
  5. Metafolin 800 mcg
  6. Taurine 500 mg

Afternoon (around 14:00)

  1. Metafolin 800mcg
  2. TMG 1000 mg

Evening (around 20:00) :

Taurine 500 mg

Night (around 24:00)

  1. Metafolin 800 mcg
  2. TMG 1000 mg
#26

so, yesterday morning i received some methylcobalamin (1mg) and metafolin (800mcg) in the mail and immediately took one of each. currently have some of the worst brainfog i’ve ever experienced, which seems to be in line with what a few others have documented in this thread. now, quick question: should i continue taking them as is, reduce the dose or stop taking them altogether and start up when things go back to baseline?

slightly worried

#27

No hope,

I started with very small crumbs of the metafolin and the co-factors. My understanding is it is important to have the other B-vitamins from a good multiple/b-complex (People can sound off on what they are using).

B6, magnesium and some other things are needed to support the cycle. The brain fog could come from a lot of things: using up some limiting nutrient is one of the possible reasons.

It took me a month to work up to full doses. And I had to incorporate coconut water and bananas because I would get low potassium.

#28

thanks for the reply droit

yeah i’m also taking a bunch of other supps, including magnesium, zinc, fish oil, vit d and a b complex. not sure on the quality of the b complex, have a feeling it’s pretty crap tbh.

but yeah, will start with a much lower dose of methylcobalamin tomorrow. got a bit paranoid that methylcobalamin/folate could facilitate degeneration of the spinal cord in those with a b12 deficiency after reading this however:

just hoping the brain fog is due to detoxification, or mercury or whatever and not rapid spinal cord degeneration.

has anyone here injected b12 and had any marked gains? probably would be a bit safer, or of course just taking hydroxocobalamin instead.

#29

what do you think about this b12?

ebay.com/itm/Methyl-B-12-Jar … 27dc104e6d

#30

I think most people here take the Enzymatic Therapy version. The people on Phoenix Rising take this version.

ca.iherb.com/Enzymatic-Therapy-B … blets/2119

People can sound off on what they take.

#31

Just a quick note: from a SpectraCell test before starting the Methylation Protocol and 1 year later, it seems my Zinc has depleted. I posted the details here:

forums.phoenixrising.me/index.ph … inc.27950/

I don’t think this is a bad sign, I suspect its just a nutrient that is needed during the healing process. So I have added additional Zinc and minerals to my protocol.

It seems this is a common phenomenon from replies in that thread. If anyone else has seen zinc depletion after starting the protocol on a lab result, please post your experience.

#32

I just wanted to add a reply I got from my endo. at Dr Herthoge’s clinic after I sent her my methylation panel results. Previously she had never spoken about methylation. Any comments welcome.

#33

Has anyone done B12 injections (active forms of course)? I’ve seen papers that say sublingual is very good so I’m not advocating.

But I would like to hear about any experiences.

#34

So , last week I was sleeping much better and was in a good mood.
On Friday I felt on my left leg something that I could describe has a discomfort in the leg. But I have also been exercising a lot. In any case I decided to stop all the vitamins until the leg got better, because it could be for example too much B6.
The leg is now better and I’ve started reintroducing the vitamins.

What I would like to say is that Saturday I noticed I was slightly irritated. I’ve drank a few drinks on Saturday night so it’s normal I didnt sleep well. BUt then from sunday to monday and monday to tuesday (today), my mood was shit and my sleep wasn’t as good. I wasn’t so sleepy at night, even after the trazodone, and I actually tonight woke up after 5.30 hours of sleep.

I’ve restarted b12 , b9, Vitamin C and Zinc.

I think what I had was from exercise, because later on the discomfort in the leg turned into tiredness in the leg and later some small pain, which has now subsided for the most part.

Nonetheless, I would like to ask you if you had any problems with B6, or if you think 50mg a day of P5P could be problematic?

Thanks

#35

For the last few days I have developed a skin rash that itches on the side of my torso.
It seems to have coincided with a new batch of Methyl-B12 2500mcg and NAC 500mg both from Jarrow that I have taken.
Previously I had been taking a B12-200 +Folate+B6 combined pill from Biotics Research and the NAC was from Jarrow but with a different labelling. I don’t know if these facts are relevant.