Mens Rea's Battle against PFS.

Ok i reckon its about time i made one of these just to keep a tab on my own “progress”.

I’m going to break convention and do things in an abbreviated summary. Personally i find the other thing too hard to read…

  • I’m 25 years old. Took fin due to hairloss. No other medical problems or medication of any kind.
  • I took finasteride for 1 year (Jan 08-March 09). Finpecia sourced online.
  • I had taken it for about 6 months (on and off) back in 06/07. I only got slight ball ache first time only.
  • It took me a year to realise my libido was dipping.
  • Since i went off it, things just got worse but no “crash” just a gradual decline
  • My hairloss has been constant before during and after fin.
  • I stopped COLD TURKEY on 17th March 2010. Almost a year off now.

Sides (all sexual):

  • Low libido. Close to zero.
  • Watery semen
  • Penis pain (atrophy - loss of girth, mainly). Pain has abated but i think this is due to penis shrinkage (there now is enough androgens floating around to nourish my newly sized member!!)
  • Weak erections (very weak at times)

Bloods (i’ve had 3 sets of bloods they’re all similar to this):

So clearly i have low cortisol (this is only one reading though, morning, but hadnt eaten breakfast which might actually have left it alot lower than it otherwise may have bee… I also have low ACTH. my main issues seem to be estrogen (and SHBG, maybe). I think my FSH is low due to the pituitary being suppressed due to excessive estrogen levels. Anyway, interpret as you will but my interpretation is that my cortisol production might have been downregulated and there is potential adrendal deficiency. Not completely sure this is directly related to the estrogen inbalance or not, though. My sexual sides all come from this estrogenic dominance IMO.


Thus far ive had an MRI and an adrendal response test (synacthen…ACTH stimulation test). Both came back fine. I’ve dabbled with 10mg ED of cialis to some success but don’t want to become reliant on it.
I’ve tried all supplements really (Zinc, DIM, Vitamin D3, Trib, L-arginine, HGW etc etc). The only one of any real use to me is L-arginine and even that’s minimal so i pretty much gave them all up apart frmo a bit fo Vitamin E every now and again.

Next step:
I’m going to be trying a short course of aromasin (small doses) to see how i respond to this. Weekly bloods. I intend to then taper off it very gentle whilst monitoring if my levels are staying in tact. Obviously this isnt an exact science but bloods and being reactive to my body will help my chance of some success. I’m very aware that having had sky high estrogen for over a year is not good for the body whaseover and i need to reactify this (Even if im doing to unnaturally). The hope here is that i bring my E2 into a healthy range which will allow other things to normalise - and hopefully break any negative feedback loop that has been decaying my endoctrine system for 2 years.

I’m also considering clomid in small doses. Also, i intend to start doing more weight lifting and stuff during and after treatment.

I’m also going to get more in-depth cortisol tests done. I’m waiting on a DHT and new ACTH reading to come through. The cortisol testing includes 4 saliva tests in one day. After that my endo is considering giving me an insulin resistence test. So this should give me a really good indication where we are in respect to all of this. That should mark almost all bases covered. We have discussed potential hydrocortisone therapy (very much hypothetical at this point).


I’m confident i can recover to a good level and hopefully live a normal life. So far its just left my sexual performance much lower than it should be but im not in a relationship. I do think i could “get by” even if i was in a relationship - with the assistance of cialis and maybe levitra!

I believe it’s a matter of working towards what works for you, personally. The power of postive thinking will help because it gives us an impetus to keep working on things.

My high testosterone levels certainly encourage me, as do lack of mental sides. I never crashed. I believe i am in a homonal negative feedback loop. I’m young and i feel my body can rectify this with a little push and the most important thing of all - TIME. I do think there is potentially something rather complicated that has originally caused all of this but we can’t simply conclude irreversable damage considering - in my case - i slowly got worse instead of any crash. Even with a crash though, I do believe the endoctine system in almost all cases can be repaired to appreciable levels.

Anyway, thanks for reading guys. I’ll try to keep this relatively up to date however I won’t be speaking much about my treatments until after ive made conclusions on their success. I think the reasons for this are clear.

I had some fluctuations but regarding libido and adhedonia have been on a downward trend for almost three years after stopping. Please keep posting to demonstrate your progress. Worst decline for me has been the transition from numbness to unpleasantness when my penis is touched.

Yeah, this is disconcerting imo.

I’ve got two theories on this (not mutually exclusive)

First: negative feedback loop

Second: Having an imbalance (in my case, high estrogen!!) over a prolonged period of time slowly causes more and more trouble to your system. I mean, high estrogen over a long period of time CANT be good for you. So over time things are going to get worse naturally even with similar levels. This is my interpretation, i think it stands to reason.

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Minor update:

I’ve noticed minor improvements this past week. I have taken a few cialis in this time too though. My overall condition is better than December time which was an all time low. I do feel that those few weeks of preg jump started me a little though but ive ran out.

I’ve decided to start arimidex on 0.1mg twice weekly and maybe move up to 0.25mg after 2-3 weeks depending on how i feel. Start low is the best approach imo.

I will be getting base bloods later this week or early next week and then i will start treatment. I’ll then be taking weekly bloods to monitor my T/E levels etc. I’m thinking of 8-9 weeks of low dose arimidex and then we’ll see after that.

I do have clomid at my disposal too. I might introduce it mid-stream should my FSH remain low.

Keep us updated on what’s going on with arimidex!

BTW, did your doctor order you that or you just came up with that by yourself?

Me and my endo agreed on it together. After a little persuasion from me, i suppose! He knew i was going to do something myself either way as I simply am not prepared to let my e2 levels sit out of range and do nothing.


I am in the same boat as you are. High-normal to above normal estradiol levels. I have experienced no mental side effects, no brain fog. My memory is as sharp as ever. Its only sexual functions that have been affected adversely. My total and free T levels have been normal to high normal. I have been working out regularly (cardio, circuit training and hypertrophy workout), however, after heavy exercise, I notice bloating and greater loss of erections. My endo initially put me on nolva, i felt better initially and then worse (due to rising estrogen levels i suppose). I think for some of us, estrogen dominance does cause problems. My symptoms are ED, fat gain (despite heavy exercising), bloating, shrinkage and watery semen.


I think its unbeliveable that your endo put you on nolva. WTF is that supposed to do for someone with high e2 and normal testosterone. You need to try arimidex or another aromastase inhibitor.

KIR and Colin - BTW, we are three peas in a pod. Almost the exact same bloodwork results.

I have terrible shrinkage and BTW my doctor also put me on Nolva (Tamoxefin). This does two things - it is supposed to boost free T and also does lower Estrogen. For me it did lower E but really no major improvement and also my SHBG is off the charts.

Right now I am on nothing for 30 days - you can see in my story.

SERM’s don’t really lower e2, if anything they can increase it, but maybe you case is different bud.

We’ll see how the arimidex goes for me. Lower e2 should = lower SHBG.

I was told that alcohol will compound SHBG and E2 issues and was told to abstain for 6 weeks, too. Have you tried that?

I agree with Colin, my Estradiol levels have shot up, due to increase total T( and free T has also increased), I had shrinkage, bloating, water retention and gynomastia. With Nolva, these issues seem to have reduced esp gynomastia. However bloating has not. It worsens when I do intense training. I am off Nolva since a week now and after about 2 weeks will do blood work. Nolva did nothing for ED and numbness, rather I think was was worse. I am a little better these past 2 days.

I think there is a correlation between the type of exercise and the symptoms. I have stopped intense weights in favor of steady state cardio interspersed with moderate weights. I do not drink at all.

After my blood work, I might consider arimidex. I want to get my estradiol to 20 pg/ml. Right now its hovering around 43. Infact it has been hovering above 35 since 8 months and heavy training made it worse.

Does high estrogen reduce the functioning and effect of DHT?

Endo just sent me my DHT reading:


He didn’t state measure or range but i assume its nmol/L and i see a range from another English based lab as (1.13 - 4.13)

If so my DHT is actually high just like my testosterone. I think this is great news and shows that perhaps its just the estrogen that is causing all these problems. Wouldn’t really explain my penis shrinkage though but that could be indirectly linked.

Will keep you’s updated!

Colin, you must have a pretty decent UK endo to get DHT tested? are you in ireland?

Northern Ireland, yeah.

I do but it’s still been difficult getting complete cooperation with labs. That DHT reading had to be sent over to England via special permission and it took almost 2 months to come back. I think they were looking for a lab for pregnenolone testing but there doesn’t appear to be any in the UK. Not that it matters that much - apparently preg testing is largely inaccurate and thus of limited use anyway.

Anyway, that’s pretty much all the bloods. I could look into 3adiolG etc if i don’t see improvements but given very normal vitamin d3 (well, high), DHT and testosterone im increasingly thinking that its my estrogen/SHBG and beyond that its either adrenal or some other mechanism that we don’t really understand. All i can do is fix what i have control of and see how i respond.

I really hope to it is estrogen imbalance. What would doing 3adiolG test help with?

EDIT- JUst want to add. I still have discomfort / dull ache (The odd more sharp type of pain) in my penis. It’s really disturbing. I really hope this regimen helps abate this and reverse a potential negative feedback loop or whatever the fuck is going on in my body.

While on Tamoxefin my E2 reading went from 56 (out of range for males) down to 36 (still not ideal like 20-25) but marked improvement. This was over two months. I am completely off everything including supplements right now for 30 days so we shall see.

As far as drinking I still do just light beer but will admit I have 2 most days. 6 weeks off would be hard

BTW Colin - are you still on the preg cream adn did you see any results?

Yeah 6 weeks off for me would be pretty unprecedented lol but i’m definately going to clean up my act during my treatment.

Yes i took small amounts of it. It’s hard to tell for sure, i didn’t take high amounts. I took it for 2 weeks about 2 weeks ago and ive noticed a little improvement. During it i had several definate increases in semen amount and quality and better erections. I’ve also had increased libido (still low but not non-existance), but we’ll see how things progress.

I definately think the preg cream can help us but i don’t want to become reliant on it, either.

You’ve developed this from your reg? or youve had it the entire time?