Low Zinc and suspect copper toxicity

General Discussion
#1

I did the Zinc taste test after seeing quite a good naturapath regarding my problems. Amongst a host of other things, she insisted that I do a zinc taste test. Sure enough it turns out I am deficient in zinc.

Copper opposes zinc. I have high levels of Billirubin (a liver marker in blood tests) and this has been linked to copper toxicity. We all know that zinc is vital for testosterone production, sperm and semen production and therefor libido. It is also vital for prostate health. How many of us are suffereing from abnormal sperm and semen? Most of us. Ive also read on this forum of at least one other guy who took zinc for a week and recovered completely. That is huge. Aparantly he stopped taking it because he was scared about the 5AR inhibition. I urge you to consider that this may not be a 5AR problem for some of us, but rather copper toxicity which screws zinc absorbtion.

Now as far as any one thing that we all may be missing goes, this mineral fits perfectly. A lack of zinc can also cause the spaciness a lot of guys experience.

Copper promotes estrogen in men.

Both my GP and my Naturapath are adiment that I at least have a liver dysfuction problem (dark under the eyes etc) and my GP is very sure that I have a heavy metal toxicity in my system, he is just not sure which one. I strongly suspect copper.

I am now taking high (but temporarily safe doses) of zinc and will report back to you on my progress. I am also doing a Functional Liver Detoxification Profile and will be urging my GP to target copper and see if I cant get a good result from this.

Wish me luck…

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#2

J89,

I agree that a lack of ZInc is a cause of some of our problems. This also proves why many men who try the Ball Zinger see some type of improvements.

I have taken Zinc supplents and used the ZInger and I am still not close to 100% recovered. I believe the situation is far larger than simply a deficiency in Zinc. THere are so many hormones that are screwed up in our body and each of us have a hormone profile that is messed up in a different way.

Some of us have extremely low Free T, LH, FSH. Some of High Free T, Low Total , Some of high Prolactin. SOme with messed up Thyroid or Adrenals.

The Zinc can help, but I don’t believe it’s the solution.

#3

Boston, I think Zinc is vital to men. But I also think its more about the copper than the zinc. If you are overloaded with copper it will skew just about everything in your body, starting with your liver.

I just did the zinc taste test again and I couldnt even taste it at all. I am WAY low on zinc. And thats after ingesting around 250mg of zinc in the last 2 days.

Its also interesting that zinc is responsible for around 30% of your testosterone. My T dropped by exactly 30%.

#4

Its also early too, but I reckon my jism is starting to thicken up a bit.

Will keep ya’s posted.

#5

Sorry, have to disagree here.

If it were as easy as popping a multivitamin, all of us would have been cured by now. Whatever this drug did goes far beyond vitamins and minerals, not to mention there is no known literature which attributes the drug’s effects on zinc or copper, to my knowledge.

Good luck with your regimen, however… although your naturopath is likely enjoying the financial kickbacks of selling you these supplements, if that is in fact the case.

#6

Have to agree with Mew here. Zinc is a 5 alpha reductase (5AR2) inhibitor, that, at high doses, is almost as strong as finasteride itself in inhibiting 5AR2.

Zinc does act as a melanocortin receptor agonist (a good thing for libido). When you first raise zinc levels you will get an increase in testosterone production similar to a bodybuilder taking a ZMA supplement (ZMA = zinc, magnesium and B6, the latter heps to bump the pituatary output). You may see some alleviation in symptoms, but the effect will be temporary unless you cycle on and off. High zinc dosages in and off themselves can cause copper deficiency, which has neurological implications.

How much, and what form (e.g. optizinc), of zinc does she have you on?

I would strongly suggest you monitor 3a androstanediol glucuronide levels every 3 or 4 weeks to determine whether the zinc you are taking is making things worse. This serum metbolite is a good indicataor of 5AR2 activitiy.

#7

Thanks for the positive feedback guys!

Mew, before you start judging my Naturapath without having even met her, she actually charges very fairly and is extremely thorough. If you want to put a negative spin on everything that is suggested on these forums (without even knowing whats wrong with us yourself) feel free to do that, but it certainly wont get in the way of my recovery.

So essentially what you guys are saying is that having a large amount of heavy metal in our body wouldnt be causing these problems? And if I cant go back to nature to try and get fixed then where should I go? To Western medicine where this all began?

Please tell me why you think I should recover from anything else while my Zinc level is in the gutter…lol

I also did a candida test this morning and I have candida as well and will be treating that too.

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#8

So what are you trying at the moment Mew?

#9

It is good that you are under the care of a physician. This woman in Denver lost the use of her legs due to too much zinc in her denture adhesive. Based on this article if you start to get tingling in your legs you are getting too much zinc:

denverpost.com/news/ci_14451649

#10

J89, we are only trying to help you, don’t take it the wrong way. If you want to try zinc go for it.

As to heavy metal toxicity I would urge you to do both hair and chelating 24 hour urine testing, as some effects seen in the pituatary could be caused by high levels of certain metals. My own tests came up zip for heavy metal toxicity, but, if yours do show something at least its treatable.

Keep us posted - kazman

#11

what about me? I took SP, so called natural. And herbalist , naturalists I do not trust them at all. Go on Dr. Raysaline’s website and see many people are comlaining about Gyno from his product for Saw Palmetto. Ridiculously he is still singing the praise of Saw Palmetto and advising his patients to keep using Saw palmetto. Now do you still trust his knowledge?
Sorry I am too harsh but your health is more important than any thing in this world.

#12

Guys, natural medicines and prescription drugs both generally come from plants. My point is not that naturapathic medicines are “better” but the angle that naturapaths go at is one of getting the body to homiostasis and to heal itself. How can this be a bad thing especially given that I have exhausted every avenue of western medicine bar a handfull.

As with any area of medicine there are good and bad naturapaths. Any naturapath that pushes SP knowing what it does to men is not the naturapath for me. My knowledge of both western medicine and natural medicine is very good - only because i have been forced to study both to try and fix this horrible condition.

Apparently hair mineral analysis can be misleading for reasons that are beyond my understanding. I have had a hair mineral analysis done and one out of two doctors said it showed signs of copper toxicity. The zinc test is apparently a good marker for zinc levels. I know of at least one other post fin guy who has low zinc blood tests. This combined with at least two immediate recoveries of symptoms on these forums with the use of zinc has me intreuged enough to try it. It cannot make me any worse.

#13

Maybe you are ritght. Go ahead and if you feel better we will be following you.

#14

Heres a study showing that zinc was effective in treating and mostly eliminating benign prostatitis hypertrophy.

stanford.wellsphere.com/relation … eks/260603

#15

It is hypertrophy where prostate becomes bigger. I had that problem for 20 years. it is caused by DHT. Although touble some but it shows you are sexually strong. Please read
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Benign_pro … yperplasia

Cause
Androgens (testosterone and related hormones) are considered to play a permissive role in BPH by most experts. This means that androgens have to be present for BPH to occur, but do not necessarily directly cause the condition. This is supported by the fact that castrated boys do not develop BPH when they age. On the other hand, administering exogenous testosterone is not associated with a significant increase in the risk of BPH symptoms. Dihydrotestosterone (DHT), a metabolite of testosterone, is a critical mediator of prostatic growth. DHT is synthesized in the prostate from circulating testosterone by the action of the enzyme 5α-reductase, type 2. This enzyme is localized principally in the stromal cells; hence, those cells are the main site for the synthesis of DHT.

We are DHT short and having smaller prostate b/c of not enough T or Dht.

#16

I guess this is the DHT lowering attributes of zinc happening. Doesnt make sense for the Zinc argument. Though I still dont know how being low on zinc can be a good thing for any of us. It is resposnsible for a lot of male attributes and about 300 enzymes around the body.

I also wonder if zinc could help those on TRT who do not respond by making all of these extra enzymes work. Zinc is after all responsible for T production, so to add it externally to the body when there is not enough zinc could be the bodies way of saying not thanks, we dont need to lose any more zinc through ejaculation. So the body doesnt allow the libido to happen due to low zinc itself… Makes sense.

#17

I can only share my brief experience with taking an extra 50mg of Zinc in the mornings for 5 days total, two summers ago.

Within 3 days of taking it, I got extreme stiffness in my legs… they felt like lead, and I found it difficult to walk. It took a few more days after quitting before the stiffness resolved. I don’t know the connection, only that these side effects appeared during my intake of additional zinc for a brief period.

Considering the double-edged sword of Zinc being beneficial to the body at normal doses and also operating as a 5AR inhibitor at higher doses, I elected to discontinue my trial.

#18

Mew, that sounds suspiciously like some kind of a healing crisis. The amount you took is nowhwere near toxic. It sounds more like you moved somthing and even though you had a bad reaction, I wonder what would have happened if you stuck it out.

Have you taken a zinc taste test? If you were low, I would take zinc for a little longer and perhaps lower the dose by half. We cannot be without zinc IMO.

#19

No I haven’t taken a Zinc test, but I take a daily multivitamin which contains adequate Zinc, plus I eat meat etc which also has Zinc. I am pretty darn sure I do not have Zinc deficiency, all things considered, as I eat a healthy and balanced diet plus the aforementioned multivitamin.

Anyway, hope things work out for you.

#20

Thanks Mew…

Im a week after seeing my naturapath and I feel better in a few areas except for libido.

I have more energy today, that is a definate. I have clearer thoughts, not as depressed and a better mood. My decision making is a lot better (I dont second guess myself). This is all typical of how you feel after you have had a good detox.

I am currently taking a liver support supplement, fish oil, liquid zinc, a very good multivitamin, Vitamin B stress support supplement and 2 tonics that have adrenal support and stuff to help me go to sleep amongst other things.

Yesterday I added garlic and Olive Leaf Extract since I tested positive to Candida on the spit test.

I cant pinpoint exactly whats making me feel better, but I beleive its a combination of everything and I have detoxified quite a lot in the last week. I have also taken on a gluten free diet which in iteself cuts out a lot of bad food.

Also I did the zinc test again today after a week of supplementing and I still cannot taste it at all. This means that I am still way low on zinc. Also I said I was taking 100mg of zinc per day…this is not correct, its actually about 35mg per day. I read the label wrong.