LAJBs blood test results

Member Stories Lab Tests
#1

Hi All,

I’ve been reading this forum for a long time now but never contributed, until now.

25years old, normal weight, fairly healthy.

my story:

i started losing my hair when i was just 18, which i found very traumatic. A few years on, i did some research into possible solutions, and came across propecia. i went to my GP, and asked for propecia, which he prescribed, no questions asked, or any indication of the possible side effects.

i took propecia back in 2006, for about 6 months. Before propecia, i was very horny, and could masturbate 2-3 times a day no problems, my libido was very high. about 1 month into propecia, the side effects kicked in. my libido went through the floor, my penis became numb, and my semen turned watery. This concerned me, but i continued with the treatment, as it was clearly working, and i was ‘safe’ in the knowledge that any side effects would discontinue after treatment. i stopped taking propecia back in Sept 06 (roughly), and side effects have persisted ever since.

although, i must say i have seen some improvements over time. nocturnal erections have returned, my semen is much less watery, and at times my libido is high (although no where near pre propecia). my volume of ejaculate has reduced dramatically post propecia, and this continues. my penis is still less sensitive than pre propecia, but at times i cant feel quite aroused, although this takes some effort.

ive read some of your posts on this forum, and i feel for all of you, i think ive had it quiet mild compare to some of you.

my side effects have been sexual related only, always. ive never experienced the dreaded ‘brain fog’ or any other mental side effects, purely sexual.

recently i have been diagnosed with a low sperm count, which i blame solely on propecia. before propecia, i used to cum loads, and produce thick, white sperm. now, although some improvements have happened, cum is <half, and the consistency is not great.

ive also had blood tests done which are : (test Jan 2010, took propecia in 06)

plasma testosterone level : 15.9 (10-27.6)
plasma FSH level: 6.3 (1.3-19.3)
plasma LH level: 5 (1.2-8.6)
prolactin: 284 (55.4-276)

also note, ive had no other ‘synthetic’ form of treatment post fin, ie. proviron, masterlone, etc. all ive taken is a large range of natural supplements and amino acids.

my doc claims that my hormones are normal, and dismisses the idea that the effects of propecia could stay on in the body for so long. he reckons that my low sperm count is down to other factors.

what does anyone think about my hormone results?

i also asked if there were any other hormones that impact on sexual function and he said ‘no’.

this clearly isnt the case

can anyone in the uk recommend anywhere that would test a broader range of hormones ??

something clearly isnt right, my sexual symptons persist, and i beleve the low sperm count is related.

there must be more to this than 4 hormones !

#2

This is likely a very large part of your problem – your prolactin is elevated beyond the range. In men, elevated prolactin can inhibit libido, testosterone secretion, and impair fertility and spermatogenesis.

ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/7247043
med.umich.edu/1libr/aha/umne … tinoma.htm
informahealthcare.com/doi/abs/10 … alCode=aan
informahealthcare.com/doi/abs/10 … 7808988317

Prolactinomas (prolactin-secreting pituitary tumours) usually cause elevated prolactin in the 1000s, but other members here have taken Finasteride and ended up with elevated prolactin post-drug (no prolactinomas). It has also been documented by Merck as a result of the drug, here (page 8): propeciahelp.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1578

You most likely need to get your prolactin down which would give improvements. There are supplements such as Vitex and some forms of vitamin B6 which may assist with this.

Vitex info:
propeciahelp.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1149

Otherwise, drugs such as Bromocriptine and Cabergoline (Dopamine agonists – dopamine is an antagonist of prolactin) are typically prescribed.

Here is another member who got his prolactin under control via Dostinex and saw improvements:
propeciahelp.com/forum/viewt … ex&start=0

The fact your doctor disregarded your complaints, your blood tests and fertility test speaks volumes about his lack of empathy and knowledge. Do some research, print out the articles, and find another doctor willing to treat you.

#3

Mew,

I have read your comments across the board with admiration, i admire your commitment to helping others with a similar problem, and your continued persistance to finding a cure to this awful problem.

as commented, i feel that given time the side effects have worn off since quitting the drug, but some symptoms remain, with little improvement. my main concern is my fertility, which according to my sperm test, is not good.

i remember talking to my doc about this, who basically said: ‘yea, well we all go downhill from the age of 15!’

i said: ‘yes, but not down the side of a cliff a week after taking this drug, and then persistently since!’

he had no response. It is clear that the medical profession have little knowledge of our condition.

do you think i should pursue the prolactin route?

or consider digging deeper and looking at other hormones ?

thankyou so much for your input, all the best

#4

I would investigate this further, find a doctor/endocrinologist who has experience in dealing with men’s infertility issues and elevated prolactin levels.

I’ve already given you links to some materials to argue your case, even a study which Merck provided, admitting the patient had elevated prolactin after quitting their drug. If you want more research, do some Googling on Pubmed and Google Scholar.

It’s always a good idea to get as broad a view of hormones as possible, since the drug primarily impacts the endocrine system. A complete list you can test for is at top of HORMONES section of this website.

propeciahelp.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=92

Good luck.

#5

mew,

thankyou so much for your reply.

given what my doctor said: ‘dont worry, your prolactin level is fine, id only be worried if it was in the 1000s’

i completely dismissed the idea, and came away thinking my hormones were fine.

ive already looked quickly over the web and can see that elevated prolactin levels can inhibit libido and sperm production as you quite rightly say.

I will raise this issue at my next appointment, with the hope of getting some treatment for my high prolactin levels.

I will of course report back

thanks again

#6

Today i went to see another doctor (gp) and i discussed my low sperm count and high prolactin levels.

she basically admitted that she had no clue about high prolactin levels, and had not seen this in a man before.

luckily, she did refer me to an endo, which i will go and see in a few weeks time.

any tips for my appointment? any questions or things that i need to say ?

my prolactin level is 284 (55-276).

is this level significantly high enough to cause sperm & libido issues?

finally, if im not prescribed parlodel or dostinex to bring my prolactin level down, has anyone bought this online and where from ?

thanks again

#7

any ideas?

#8

Bumping your posts will not help, so please refrain from doing so.

Great, see what he has to say.

We are not doctors so can’t say. However, if you are outside the top of the range for a man, it could be causing problems based on literature stating that elevated prolactin can cause fertility & libido issues.

Self-medicating can be a dangerous route. Probably best to find a doc to work with on your issues rather than self-medicating if at all possible. There are also natural supplements mentioned previously which may help before resorting to pharmaceuticals.

Good luck.

#9

hi everyone,

See above for background info

today i received my second set of blood test results:

prolactin 313 (55-276)
FSH 7.2 (1.3-19.3)
LH 7.4 (1.2-8.6)
testosterone 14.2 (10-27.6)
TSH 1.46 (0.34-5.6)
FT4 11.8 (7.5-21.1)

Clearly, prolactin is still elevated beyond range.

Today I also had my 1st appointment with an endo.

I will have another blood test in 1 months time, which will also include SHBG, which should give an indication as to how much free test I have, my current bloods give no indication of this.

He agreed that high prolactin may be causing my fertility & libido issues. He suggested cabergoline drug treatment & an MRI scan to detect potential tumours/growths in the pitutary gland. I suggested that an MRI scan was pointless, as the treatment is the same anyway, he agreed.

I discussed fin, and he was aware of the drug, but not of any long term issues associated with it. I described how the drug acts on the endo system, and he seemed familiar with the process. However, he seemed doubtful of its long term effects, but willing to listen to my views. Clearly, cases of male issues as a result of fin treatment are few and far between.

I think i was very lucky in my appointment, as he is clearly a doctor who is happy to listen to your views, and is not dismissive & unwilling to treat.

I have been prescribed a 3 month treatment course of Cabergoline to reduce my prolactin levels, and hopefully boost my libido & other ongoing side effects which I know are caused by fin.

For the benefit of everyone here, I will report back on weekly basis to see how Cabergoline has helped with the effects caused by fin.

Good luck everyone

#10

You should get a pituitary MRI with and without contrast die. Check carefully with the hospital, most will have your MRI read by whatever radiologist is on duty at the time - you want one that specializes in MRIs of the brain. If you have a tumor it may have to be removed, or, if small, controlled with the drug you mention. There are a variety of other things that can go wrong, such as empty sella syndrome, which the MRI will pick up, and that may indicate your thyroid or other hormones need replacement.

If possible see if you can get a high resolution MRI.

It would be useful to get serum estradiol and DHT levels. Some post fin folks have normal testosterone, FSH and LH yet are converting most T to estradiol and not enough to DHT (or they aren’t converting DHT in the prostate via 5 alpha reductase type 2).

#11

I will definitely be interested to hear if you experience any progress on Caberglone(sp?)

#12

hi - i have been on the drug since the 11th. hard to say if its had any early impact, but ive been having more erections etc libido may have improved slightly.

far too early to tell, ive seen studies looking at the effect of cabergoline on sperm count & libido which are measured over a minimum period of 6 months.

i will give a first update after being on for 2 weeks

good luck !

#13

I tend to believe that if something is effective on the reproductive organs, it must make the penis fuller at the base, more sensitive to stimulation along its length, and increase the testicle size and possibly the prostate size.

The dopamine, oxytocin, and other neurotransmitters in the CNS are another question along with the skin of the entire body. But one hopeful thought is that the lower chakra is the seat of all this energy we are lacking and combined with sunlight (Vit. D and whatever else we can’t measure coming through the skin), we could see some definite improvement. Aerobic exercise that works the legs and gluts would theoretically help too.

#14

Huh? Can we try and keep things at a scientific rather than spiritual discussion please… no offense. :slight_smile:

#15

fine, you’re the boss, Mew.

I don’t see science (alone) getting a lot of ppl here very far. Acupuncture and concepts from “science,” Ayurveda, Chinese medicine, Naturopathic medicine, and the use of vibrational therapy (body tuning) all aided me years ago when science and conventional medicine alone failed me.

If nothing else, the concepts can be used to visualize a means to recover–something to believe when nothing else offers hope.

You (anyone here) would be foolish to discredit any insight about the human body from ‘alternative’ medicine or to never seek the help of a effective practitioner of any of these modalities/sciences. If you have seen someone practicing any of the above already and experienced no change, I suggest you not be discouraged.

For example: every time I have seen a Caucasian acupuncturist from N. America (and not overseen by anyone), the sessions were ineffective. When I’ve been treated by Chinese, they have been effective every time. Regardless of ethnicity or background, some people can be highly effective and some not nearly so.

If anyone is interested, I’ll just talk about these things in another area of the site. I know where you can get quality acupuncture in the Pac NW for only $22/session, for example.

#16

Tbone, I agree – it’s probably best that such discussions are made in another thread so as to keep the original poster’s thread on-topic.

Well, on the other hand I haven’t seen acupunture or naturopathy, or yoga curing people, either. There are many belief systems, and many non-traditional therapies which have assisted people in improvement of certain symptoms, but unfortunately nobody has come back and reported being cured from such tactics… most likely because they do not treat the root cause of the problem, which likely involve dysfunction of androgenic action/metabolism, amongst other issues based on what we know from scientific reports on Finasteride’s many mechanisms of action.

It has nothing to do with me “being the boss”, however we’ve had users here in the past spouting off about all sorts of “energy”, “spirituality” and “it’s the process” related topics which were not backed up by anything other than personal opinion and belief, instead of facts. I’m not saying that’s what’s happening here, but in general, this forum tends to bias towards scientific discussion based on published reports, rather than operate as a spiritual/alternative health site.

Personally, I’m a realist. I’m not opposed to such concepts but like anything, some people take more convincing and will question such therapies if they are not backed up by documented, verifiable mechanisms of action which have been scientifically proven.

However, if you have found improvement from such treatments in the past, that is great! I wish you all the best, and certainly respect that fact.

Exactly my point… while outside the scope of traditional science, these types of treatments may provide a good adjunctive to traditional scientific therapies, to provide a holistic approach to the problem. And as you say, it can also provide something to “believe in”, for those who wish to do so.

Yes, that would be best… the Natural Supplements section is probably the best location for such discussions.

Cheers.