L-Arginine, Viagra counteract Peyronie's/penile fibrosis

Therapeutic Efforts
#1

L-arginine and phosphodiesterase (PDE) inhibitors counteract fibrosis in the Peyronie’s fibrotic plaque and related fibroblast cultures.

ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/quer … t=Citation

2003 Dec;9(4):229-44
Valente EG, Vernet D, Ferrini MG, Qian A, Rajfer J, Gonzalez-Cadavid NF.
Division of Urology, Research and Education Institute, Harbor-UCLA Medical Center, Torrance, CA, USA.

Inducible nitric oxide synthase (iNOS) is expressed in both the fibrotic plaque of Peyronie’s disease (PD) in the human, and in the PD-like plaque elicited by injection of TGFbeta1 into the penile tunica albuginea (TA) of the rat.

Long-term inhibition of iNOS activity, presumably by blocking nitric oxide (NO)- and cGMP-mediated effects triggered by iNOS expression, exacerbates tissue fibrosis through an increase in: (a) collagen synthesis, (b) levels of reactive oxygen species (ROS), and © the differentiation of fibroblasts into myofibroblasts.

We have now investigated whether: (a) phosphodiesterase (PDE) isoforms, that regulate the interplay of cGMP and cAMP pathways, are expressed in both the human and rat TA; and (b) L-arginine, that stimulates NOS activity and hence NO synthesis, and PDE inhibitors, that increase the levels of cGMP and/or cAMP, can inhibit collagen synthesis and induce fibroblast/myofibroblast apoptosis, thus acting as antifibrotic agents.

We have found by immunohistochemistry, RT/PCR, and Western blot that PDE5A-3 and PDE4A, B, and D variants are indeed expressed in human and rat normal TA and PD plaque tissue, as well as in their respective fibroblast cultures. As expected, in the PD fibroblast cultures, pentoxifylline (non-specific cAMP-PDE inhibitor) increased cAMP levels without affecting cGMP levels, whereas sildenafil (PDE5A inhibitor) raised cGMP levels.

Both agents and L-arginine reduced the expression of collagen I (but not collagen III) and the myofibroblast marker, alpha-smooth muscle actin, as determined by immunocytochemistry and quantitative image analysis. These effects were mimicked by incubation with 8-Br-cGMP, which in addition increased apoptosis, as measured by TUNEL.

When L-arginine (2.25 g/kg/day), pentoxifylline (10 mg/kg/day), or sildenafil (10 mg/kg/day) was given individually in the drinking water for 45 days to rats with a PD-like plaque induced by TGF beta1, each treatment resulted in a 80-95% reduction in both plaque size and in the collagen/fibroblast ratio, as determined by Masson trichrome staining. Both sildenafil and pentoxiphylline stimulated fibroblast apoptosis within the TA.

Our results support the hypothesis that the increase in NO and/or cGMP/cAMP levels by long-term administration of nitrergic agents or inhibitors of PDE, may be effective in reversing the fibrosis of PD, and more speculatively, other fibrotic conditions.

PMID: 14996430 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

#2

please excuse my lack of knowledge in such terminology but does this say L-Arginine is good or bad for helping ed? again apologies for ignorance on subject.

cheers

#3

The study says that use of L-Arginine or Viagra resulted in a 80-95% reduction in both plaque size and in the collagen/fibroblast ratio in the penis [of rats].

“Our results support the hypothesis that the increase in NO [nitric oxide] and/or cGMP/cAMP levels by long-term administration of nitrergic agents [such as L-Arginine or Viagra]… may be effective in reversing the fibrosis of PD [Peyronie’s Disease], and more speculatively, other fibrotic conditions.”

Hope that clears it up.

1 Like
#4

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#5

when i came off propecia i bought a product here in sweden that contains zink magnesium vit c, b6 and l-arginine hcl. says on the label: daily dose 2500 mg l-arginine hcl. I took that for a couple of weeks without feeling any changes good or bad. Every1 is different but i dident feel anything on that high of a doze for a couple of weeks. Since so much time has passed since then its very hard to say what did what. I felt alot better after 2 month or so but after that has been up and down. I doubt however that arginine had anything to do with me feeling better, i assumed it was natural healing and time. Penis did not feel better for me on that doze and i still have a slight increase in my curve since propecia. Dont want to sound pessimistic about this but i doubt anything will ever fix that curve for me, it just feels very perminent. However it dont bather me so much now 1.5 yrs later since penis feels better and is more sensitive, i think the “deadness” was for me what made it so scary not the actual curve. And the senisivity can return i know that 1st hand.

#6

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#7

How long did it take for the sensitivity to return for you guys?

and is your current sensitivity at a pre-finasteride level?

#8

Exciting news. Yet… the dosages of L-arginine (2.25 g/kg/day) and sildenafil (10 mg/kg/day) used in the study are pretty alarming. If I adjusted them for my body weight (84kg) it would equate to 189 grams of L-arginine and 840mg of sildenafil (viagra) daily. Which is of course is absolutely insane. Those rats in the study sure had it rough.

#9

That’s a good point, I don’t think humans should be taking those levels of either . . .

Mew have you considered this factor?

#10

Obviously too much of anything is probably not a good thing.

I think with L-Arginine the most they’ve given in studies on humans was 5-6 grams a day, for 6 months… so you need to make your own choices about dosing if you plan on trying things.

#11

Try a penis pump. Physiologically it makes sense. I’ve heard they are pretty popular for a reason! Talk to someone in the porn industry. Just try it.

#12

i’m starting with 5 grams of l-arginine per day and vitamin e to try to defeat my fibrosis, i’m taking them immediately before going to sleep, is when i take them important?

#13

Cycle them, or they will stop working(if the do work)

The way i would do it is

Day 1 vit e
Day 2 arg.
Day 3 nothing
Day 4 Half a viagra
Day 5 nothing

Repeat ongoing

#14

sure that vitamin e shouldn’t be taken together with either arginine or cialis (i usually take cialis not viagra)?I read somewhere it can boost their effect. On here it’s written that cialis should be taken at night, just before going to sleep and about l-arginine and vitamin e? A doctor told me vitamin e should be taken in the morning, but actually i don’t trust doctors. And about l-arginine? All the 3 bottles at night or share them throughout the day?

#15

If you do not cycle supplements you risk developing a tolerance to them. IMO you may want to wait longer than three days between doses of L-Arganine. Over time people have reported reduced efficacy of PDE5 inhibitors also, so you may want to cycle them too.

You can also explore putting vitamin E oil direct on the penile skin.

#16

vitamin e inhibits nitric oxide production… just an FYI.

although good for correcting scar tissue, that’s the trade off you need to consider.

#17

Source?

#18

ajas.info/Editor/manuscript/upload/24-175.pdf

#19

lol, chickens.

Heres a human one bryce, although the subjects have hypercholesterolaemia.

Abstract

  1. Vitamin E administration improves endothelial function in hypercholesterolaemic animals but, generally, has not been found to do so in man. The aim of this study was to determine whether vitamin E administration improves basal or stimulated function of the nitric oxide (NO) dilator system in patients with hypercholesterolaemia. 2. Seven subjects aged 47+/-3 (+/-S.E.M.) years with moderately elevated serum cholesterol concentrations (6.0+/-0.1 mmol/l) were given 4 weeks of placebo therapy followed by 500 i.u. of vitamin E twice daily for 4 weeks. Endothelium-dependent and -independent vasodilatation were assessed by intrabrachial infusion of acetylcholine and sodium nitroprusside, and forearm blood flow was measured by strain-gauge plethysmography. Basal NO function was assessed by infusion of NG-monomethyl-L-arginine. 3. Plasma alpha-tocopherol concentration was enhanced after administration of vitamin E (34.6+/-1.8 to 86.9+/-9.6 micromol/l; P<0.001). In addition, vitamin E administration significantly increased acetylcholine-mediated vasodilatation whether the results were expressed in terms of changes in absolute forearm blood flow (P<0. 01), forearm vascular resistance (P<0.05) or forearm blood flow ratios (P<0.001). Similarly, absolute forearm blood flow (P<0.05), forearm vascular resistance (P<0.01) and forearm blood flow ratio (P<0.01) responses to NG-monomethyl-L-arginine were augmented by vitamin E therapy. Sodium nitroprusside responses were unaltered. 4. These results indicate that 4 weeks therapy with 1000 i.u. of vitamin E daily improves basal and stimulated NO-related endothelial function in subjects with hypercholesterolaemia
#20

Bryce, broiler chickens are not relevant comparisons to humans. Broiler chickens are avians, they are kept static, and they are fed the standard diet of gmo corn/soy/lysine/antibiotics. Hardly a proper environment for healthy NO production if a human were to be subjected to the same environmental controls, not to mention the other obvious differences between avians and humans. Broiler chickens with their diet, modified genetics, and static life, have accelerated growth and many cannot even walk because their legs cannot support them due to this.

Do you have a relevant source?