Italian member, updates

Member Stories
#1

Welcome to our community. Please fill in the following template as a way of introducing yourself, and helping others to understand your background and situation.

Where are you from (country)?

Italy

How did you find this forum (Google search – if so, what search terms? Via link from a forum or website – if so, what page? Other?)

Idk probably google search

What is your current age, height, weight?

21, 184cm (6ft), 74kg (163lbs)

What specific drug did you use (finasteride, dutasteride, saw palmetto, isotretinoin/Accutane, fluoxetine, sertraline, citalopram, leuprorelin, etc…)?

Saw Palmetto for a few days, then a supplement with other natural anti dht and beta sitosterol (same active as Saw P)

What dose did you take (eg. 1 mg/day, 1 mg every other day etc.)?

Idk, standard aga dose

What condition was being treated with the drug?

Androgenic alopecia

For how long did you take the drug (weeks/months/years)?

8/9 months

How old were you, and WHEN (date) did you start the drug?

20, June 2020

How old were you when you quit, and WHEN (date) did you quit?

21, Feb 2021

How did you quit (cold turkey or taper off)?

Taper off, last 2 months I was taking the supplement EOD and last week I cut the pills in half too

How long into your usage did you notice the onset of side effects?

First month

What side effects did you experience that have yet to resolve since discontinuation?

Check the boxes that apply. You can save your post first, then interactively check/uncheck the boxes by clicking on them. If your symptoms change, please update your list.

Sexual
[~] Loss of Libido / Sex Drive
[~] Erectile Dysfunction
Complete Impotence
Loss of Morning Erections
Loss of Spontaneous Erections
Loss of Nocturnal Erections
Watery Ejaculate
Reduced Ejaculate
Inability or Difficulty to Ejaculate / Orgasm
Reduced Sperm Count / Motility

Mental
Emotional Blunting / Emotionally Flat
Difficulty Focusing / Concentrating
Confusion
Memory Loss / Forgetfulness
Stumbling over Words / Losing Train of Thought
Slurring of Speech
Lack of Motivation / Feeling Passive / Complacency
Extreme Anxiety / Panic Attacks
Severe Depression / Melancholy
Suicidal Thoughts

Physical
Penile Tissue Changes (narrowing, shrinkage, wrinkled)
Penis curvature / rotation on axis
Testicular Pain
[~] Testicular Shrinkage / Loss of Fullness
Genital numbness / sensitivity decrease
Weight Gain
Gynecomastia (male breasts)
Muscle Wastage
Muscle Weakness
Joint Pain
Dry / Dark Circles under eyes

Misc
Prostate pain
[~] Persistent Fatigue / Exhaustion
Stomach Pains / Digestion Problems
Constipation / “Poo Pellets”
Vision - Acuity Decrease / Blurriness
Tinnitus (ringing or high pitched sound in ears)
Hearing loss
Increased hair loss
Frequent urination
Lowered body temperature

Other (please explain)

What (if any) treatments have you undertaken to recover from your side effects since discontinuation of the drug?

Tried Magnesium, vit D, iodine and Tonkgat Ali but everything for very few days beacause I’m still in the early stages and now waiting for hormonal panel

If you have pre or post-drug blood tests, what hormonal changes have you encountered since discontinuing the drug (please post your test results in the “Blood Tests” section and link to them in your post)?

Waiting for results but I have nothing pre 5ar inhibitors

Anything not listed in the above questions you’d like to share about your experience?

Tell us your story, in your own words, about your usage and side effects experienced while on/off the drug.

I start by saying that I’ve been visiting this site for some time already but I find it really depressing for obvious reason and I feel like, at least for me, it’s more harm than good spending time here if not for trying to get some advice, which is why I’m writing this.

Anyway last year I was sick of my diffuse thinning which I felt was about to become noticeable by others so I started Saw palmetto. Libido boost after less than a week then numb orgasm w watery semen which freaked me out (I started reading heavily about sides for the first time). I quit and probably also due to my panicking I was able to get hard again only 3/4 days later but then I was fine. Scary stuff but soon my hair insecurities got me again, I retried w half the dose but this time I got crazy back pain which seemed random but still made me throw the stuff away and book an appointment w a derm.
After some time (quarantine) I see this derm who prescribes me this ‘absolutely free side effects’ supplement which obviously contains a bunch of some anti 5ar stuff. I start taking it and again just after two days I have a crazy boost in libido but by the end of the week it’s already faded. This time I try not to freak out and actually everything seems fine, my libido is decent and I feel like I just had to adapt to the drug.
A month pass and I start to notice lumps in my semen.
This symptom w time starts to be a constant and my libido too seems to fluctuate and not always high enough (I always had very high sex drive before).
I also start feeling that my dick has probably lost some girth at the base but I’m not 100% sure to these days and that my back is some time sore, even if less severely, in the same spots that it was last time I had tried SP. Anyway all this in addition to some not so great sex makes me decide after ~6 months to taper off and then to quit.
So I finally quit in February and immediately for the next 3/4 days I have crazy burning sensation while and after peeing. Then this kinda subside, even tho it still burns from time to time, but I’m left w all the sides that I developed on the drug. Urologist told me that I have a grade 2/3 varicocele, I got semen and urine analysis but everything is clear, apart from low normal form sperm count.
It’s been more than 3 months since quitting and I’m at at an all time low, I had terrible sex last week because my dick would stay hard only if I kept touching myself, otherwise I had really reduced sensation.
5 days ago the urologist prescribedme an anti inflammatory suppository which I take every evening and told me to wait for the hormone panel.
It doesn’t seem to be helping even tho I had a rock hard morning wood just last morning randomly (but apart from that almost zero spontaneous) and also it was followed by a very painfull ejaculation (never experienced) with the usual clumpy stuff.
Now I’m probably going to get the varicocele removed next month but clearly my symptoms comes from something else. To summarise what I have now is:

Decreased libido.
No spontaneous erection, I get only like 60% w/out touching it if I’m in those situations w a chick.
Low pleasure orgasms (Fluctuate from bad to decent when I have decent libido and I’ve been masturbating for quite some time).
Clumpy, low amount ejaculate.
Slightly burning sensation while urinating.
Sore lower back.
Sense of pressure in lower belly.
Slight pain in my dick from time to time.
(Definitely hair falling less than pre SP).

Imo definitely the prostate is involved, I still have some fluctuations in my symptoms but I’m sadly convinced that they are not gonna fade away by themselves.
So what to do now?
I mean I think I’ve found a good urologist and I hope he can help but still what approach do you think it’s the best in my case?
As I said I’m waiting for hormones results but still I think my issues are most probably some sort of inflammation/infection (not found tho). Mentally I’m good.
I mean prostatitis symptoms are there 100%.
Should I try antibiotics / antifungals? Alpha blockers? L-citrulline / low dose cialis?

#2

I found that Creatine (5g / day) really helped me. My issues doesn’t mirrors yours 100% but it’s kinda the same. Also I used Finasteride.

But it helped my semen to be less watery, my balls look normal again and I got intermittent pain in my perenium which went away or greatly diminished.

Took 2-3 weeks with daily 5g to get these effect (no “upload phase”).

Might give it a try, should be pretty well tolerated even though some claim worsening of syntoms with it. It also have some other positive effect on workout and even brain health.

Hang in there brother, keep us updated.

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#3

Thanks man,
actually the only supplement I’ve used with some consistency recently had some magnesium + Potassium + Creatine in it, but i’m not too sure it was helping.
I’m really wondering if someone reversed the clumpy ejaculate somehow bc it’s been my fist symptom on the drug and the most persistent till today.
Also forgot to mention that apparently after I drink A LOT of alcohol (which btw I couldn’t tolerate while on the 5ari) on the next day I seem to get some normal spontaneous erection.
Also I said I wasn’t 100% sure but I really feel that my dick has lost some girth at the base while erect, probably this fluctuates a bit too, fuck idk how!!
My problem definitely involves the prostate area, idk if it’s muscles or nerves but something is off down there.
Now for anyone with same symptoms, hormonal route (like tongkat/ creatine stuff like that for now), anti-inflammatory route or something else is the way to improve??

#4

Here my hormones results. I doubt anyone will have any suggestions but if you can interpret them please let me know what you think.

LH 5.6 U/L (1.7-8.6)
FSH 3.9 U/L (1.5-12.5)
Prolactin 11.7 μg/L (4.0-15.2)
Testosterone 38.8 nmol/L > (8.6-29.0)
Free T 30.09 ng/L (13.00-40.00)
TSH 1.52 mU/L (0.270-4.200)

#5

Your T is pretty high. Other than that not much out of the ordinary.

This could mean Fin is still in your system, although you been off for some time.

Did you not get Estradiol test? Shbg would also be useful. Although your free T is quite high which would mean shbg isn’t high.

I left blood for my tests today. Can come back when I get the result if we have something similar.

#6

I mean I imagined that my test and particularly my free test would have been high bc even if I said that I’m almost not loosing hair anymore, my body hair still grows fast and my body fat % is extremely low as it always has been. Idk probably before this I had more T converted into Free T and DHT but who knows.
Btw I just finished a week on Augmentin without much improvement, now I’m gonna see my uro again to see if he suggest taking something else. Then next month I’m already getting rid of my varicocele, hoping it’s what is affecting my recovery. Tbh I found many posts on reddit about similar sexual issues caused by varicocele which resolved after surgery, even if ofc any doctor would disagree.

#7

Guys, since I’ll have to decide in a couple weeks to go for varicocele surgery or not, I’m now trying to see if I can somehow improve and get results on my worst symptoms to rule out they have something to do with it.
These symptoms are:
low amount clumpy ejaculate;
some burning sensation when peeing;
low pleasure orgasm;
erections that can achieve 100% only after physical touch but still feel less thick at the base.
Most likely it’s all prostate related I’d say.

I’ve just started taking BORON, I’m probably gonna start CREATINE too today and I was about to order QUERCETIN.
I’ve read decent things about boron here but no miracles ofc (nothing negative tho), creatine I’m not too sure but I wanna try something that only raises DHT.
Quercetin seems really good for prostate inflammation, I read Cdnuts probably had some benefit but I haven’t see many reviews especially on its effect on sexual symptoms.
What do you think about these 3 supplements? And about QUERCETIN in particular?

#8

It’s always the same, man.

Creatine has a history of crashing people, and like virtually anything that came with horror stories … it’s also linked to some major improvement in other users.

Quercetin is antiandrogenic if I’m not wrong.

EDIT: man, you quit the SP recently. Give it one years before messing up with supplements and treatments in general.

#9

I’ve read someone improving shrinkage with quercetin so I don’t feel it can be defined universally as antiandrogenic, or at least it’s for sure not its main way of action. Also I don’t feel like I’m prone to crashes, I’ve never experienced them, I just have some inflammation down there that build up while I was on SP and it’s not going away. I definitely can’t afford to waist a year hoping it’s gonna disappear while till now it has only got worse

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#10

I’m not here to tell you what to do.

But keep in mind that you could end up “wasting” a lot more than one year.

#11

Non è necessario che una sostanza sia “principalmente” antiandrogena per causare effetti collaterali.

Un vecchio amministratore del sito ha sofferto un aggravamento della sua condizione utilizzando il Cardo Mariano (Milk Thistle), mentre un altro utente si è tolto la vita dopo aver assunto del resveratrolo, notoriamente antiandrogenico.

Solitamente gli effetti collaterali (anche a lungo periodo) del SP sono meno gravi, e tendono a migliorare con il tempo. Hai interrotto l’assunzione a febbraio, questo vuol dire che non sono passati neanche 6 mesi. Ci sono tutti i presupposti per pensare che tu possa guarire naturalmente. Prenditi un po’ di tempo, perché sarebbe un peccato incasinare la tua situazione con l’integratore sbagliato.

#12

Guarda, capisco perfettamente quello che vuoi dire e anzi ti ringrazio che ti preoccupi che non faccia cazzate. Il fatto è che senza fare nulla non ho visto alcun segno di miglioramento e ora mi sento di dover prendere in mano la situazione, alla mia età anche solo un altro anno con questi sintomi non lo reggerei.
Poi c’è da dire che i miei sides non li vedo più come del tutto misteriosi, di fatto mi è venuta una cazzo di prostatite (ne più ne meno potrei dire) ed è ciò che sto cercando di trattare.
Per ogni integratore che considero leggo comunque ogni recensione e discussione che trovo su internet, sulla quercetina il poco che ho trovato mi è parso positivo…

#13

Come preferisci.

Fai attenzione.

In bocca al lupo.

#14

Quick update:
I just started cialis 5mg EOD, I’ve read its good for prostatitis too and in fact today, even tho my first dose yesterday evening was half a pill j to try, I have zero pain in my dick, abdomen and lower back which is great. I had one spontaneous too and no burning feeling while pissing.
My libido is decent, I’m taking some creatine (low dose) and 3mg boron daily but I don’t know about their effect, I feel more like it’s almost never been a critical symptom for me. I mean I definitely had very low libido for my standards for the past two month but it’s been more bc of depression for my situation and also bc I knew my dick has some issues lol. If I was able to distract myself it’d be fine I reckon. And btw I have to say that spending j half an hour on this site it’s pretty effective to kill libido and you all should consider this I think.
Anyway, my dick when erect has still less girth at the base and I’ve no idea what’s causing that and the same goes for my pathetic ejaculation. Atm these are my main problems. I wanted to try diflucan or a stronger antibiotic along w cialis but my urologist wouldn’t prescribe me anything else. So rn I’m hoping cialis is going to have an effect on these two issues too in some time.
Btw if u have prostate problems or even if not I feel like low dose cialis is almost a must in our case, I mean the generic (in pharmacy) is not even that expensive and of all the things we’re trying it’s probably the only thing that will have some positive effect on anyone. Going back it will be the first thing I would try and most probably I would be in a better place rn, particularly mentally.

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#15

Last update for a while I think:
Till now Cialis has been the only thing w clear positive impact on my symptoms. 2.5 mg get rid of all prostate related pains that I had and of burning or weird sensation I had while peeing or ejaculating. This dose doesn’t give me any side effect but apparently it’s not enough to bring me back to 100% (still pretty low semen volume w some clumps and meh orgasms).
WITH 5mg THOUGH, I FEEL COMPLETELY NORMAL (except for the severe anxiety this condition has induced in me) FOR 3/4 DAYS. The only problem is that the day after I take 5mg I feel like I have the flu and also I wake up feeling some slight pressure in my eyes.
Beside this for the next 3 days my dick feels as it used to, erection feels fuller (old girth restored), I produce precum, fapping feels great and semen it’s no longer clumpy (idk about the amount bc when I was feeling like this I didn’t wait too long between 2 rounds lol)

Idk how to feel about this bc I can’t see it as a long term cure but still it’s good to know I can somehow reverse my symptoms.
I am gonna go on like this for a couple months then probably I’ll finally have a varicocelectomy which I had to postpone but I still want to be done. Hopefully I’ll be able to feel myself again in a relatively short time.

#16

As for the fact that you do not consider cialis a cure, actually, as well as other PDE inhibitors + afrodisiacs it is actually considered a cure for many cases of ED if used long term. It is supposed to restart the system by allowing blood flow to gradually restore functionalities down there. Very diffused therapy among andrologists at least in Italy (I’m italian too).

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#17

Yeah you’re right I should probably accept it as an actual cure. The fact is that I don’t really think it’s acting on the root problem, and the fact that I have to take it for who knows how long just to mask an uncured issue it’s scaring me

#18

Maybe I wasn’t clear enough. I meant PDE inhibitors are considered therapies to literally CURE issues down there and after a period you are meant to definitely withdraw the PDE inhibitor. The point is to reinstate for long time enough a normale blood flow. This has the effect to oxygenate tissues and many other things and giving them health. I didn’t mean you should take them for the rest of your life. Tough if it works in our case it is to be evaluated. I am doing the therapy myself right now. Altough I am a pretty bad case since a lot of time.

#19

While it’s not bad to look for a “cure”, I think it’s a long way until we find one.

In the meantime we are probably better off trying to maximize our quality of life through whatever means possible.

So if Cialis is helping to improve QoL my opinion is that it’s probably more benefits than negatives to be had from it.

#20

This kind of therapy already cured a few here if I am not incorrect. Either way It’s been some time that I am on this therapy now, something like 1.5 months. Honestly this therapy gives me pretty rock hard erections without being on PDE. I only take half a pill of Viagra before bed and some classic supplements for sex life during the day. First days it doesn’t do much. But as time passes the situation gets better. I know I am not cured and in any case I would have to withdraw everything before saying something about that, but at this tme my erections are very strong and many orgasms are pretty strong too.

Apart from that, I always used Levitra on occasions where I have sex in the last years. Works pretty well. Cialis never convinced me, tough it has that long halflife.

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