Is this a "crash", or not? Thoughts appreciated

General Discussion
#1

After a lot of reading on here I am still not clear on what constitutes a “crash” and wondered if anyone could weigh in on my situation and what is the significance of having a crash vs. not having a crash.

I took Propecia from 2008 to June 2011. In late 2010, I began waking up at 2:30 or 3:00 in the morning and had trouble going back to sleep. In retrospect, also starting at about this time was a very gradual reduction in libido. In late May 2011, the libido problem reached the point of a near-total lack of spontaneous erections. I did research, fingered Propecia as the probable culprit, and stopped taking it. I never had any short-lived recovery period following this. A test showed my total T at 300 and all my other numbers including free T and SHBG good. All thyroid numbers were good. Right around this May/June period I also developed a strange lethargy/lack of motivation and an intense depression/anxiety that would alternate on and off in waves, being better in the evening and worse during the day. These mental side effects lasted for about three months after stopping Propecia, then went away and never returned (currently about 1 year off drug). My sleep was very bad for about three months after stopping, then gradually got better. I have a long way to go on the sleep front, but I’m easily 50% better now than my at worst point. The lack of libido has stayed pretty much the same from the time it first developed, but I can get an erection with massive stimulation (i.e. live girl) and have weak morning erections. Never had any physical penile changes, muscle wasting, vision changes, or anything else not mentioned above. Had an exhaustive blood test a week ago and total T was 416, all other numbers good.

Given the above, is this a “crash”, or not? What does it mean to have a crash vs. not crashing? Thanks very much for reading and for your thoughts.

#2

Review the timelines of PFS
propeciahelp.com/overview
propeciahelp.com/symptoms

Also review the FAQ: propeciahelp.com/faq

That should help answer your questions.

Based on your description it doesn’t sound like you experienced this particular issue, as most men that do have a brief, short-lived recovery 2-3 weeks after quitting drug (5AR2/DHT no longer inhibited) that lasts a few days, followed by a massive drop in LH, FSH and Testosterone production to hypogonadal levels thereafter (the “crash”).

During the brief “recovery” phase libido/androgens return in full force, erectile function massively improves, morning woods return, mental clarity begins to rapidly return etc. This is how things are supposed to continue forward (ie would be expected after quitting) but unfortunately this flood of androgens after quitting the drug causes something to go haywire in certain men’s endocrine systems and the opposite happens, as the body shuts down endogenous Testosterone production.

Note this is not the same pattern for everyone, as some guys may have no change in symptoms after quitting drug (even without this massive hormonal rollercoaster).

#3

Mew, many thanks for your thorough reply. My only remaining question even after reading your cited links is whether in your opinion the lack of a crash is a positive factor for purposes of an eventual recovery, or if it is not particularly relevant. Thanks again.

#4

Honestly, I would postulate that your particular bodies response to this poisonous drug is a positive one. Many others such as myself, after quitting the drug, recover, crash, then recover some more, then crash again. If you’ve avoided a crash thus far, I would recommend trying a serm coupled with an ai with the intent to boost testosterone production while keeping estrogen low, all the while avoiding any type of crash.