Genes are far more complicated than simply race. There must be a genetic or epigenetic element to this as some people are affected and others are not. Its that simple.
I hate seeing this kind of stuff mentioned as the cause, because I believe it’s BS. It reminds me of the old argument the cigarette companies used to make, about how nicotine was only hazardous to a certain percent of people. If anyone smokes long enough it will eventually kill you, regardless of race, creed, etc. I believe fina has the same effect on a man’s hormones.
No one in my family has ever had a thyroid problem, on either side of the family. If I was predispositioned to have a problem with this drug, why did it take years for things to get bad. It should have been most immediate if that were the case. This is just another load of garbage that Merck will try to use when we have our day in court.
same here. In my family no one has or had any thyroid problems. My dad it close to 77, my aunts in their 80s or 90s with good health. (few have age related problems).
Luckily my next door neighbor has used Propecia for 3-4 months back in 2003( he has no sides, good health). Before going on Propecia he was diagnosed hypo thyroidal and was on med for thyroid he is still taking med for his thyroid.
what do you think about this case?
sps
Actually, it was discovered some time ago (and a document was made of it) that a small percentage of kannabis users were more prone to psychosis/schizoprenia due to a certain genetic variation in them. It had nothing to do with race. In the document it was proposed that people could have to be tested for this genetic variation so that the minority could be warned of the dangers - since so many people use kannabis these days it would be futile to try to restrict it much like alcohol.
So the theory about genetic variation causing different effects to us PFS patients is not that far fetched you know.
Maybe something similiar of a detection protocol could had been proposed to finasteride as well, considering the amount of people who use it to treat MPB but it seems that Merck is determined to hide this under the rug and/or get out of this unscatched. Now we have to see whether this causes changes or damage to the majority as well. I really hope that is not the case.
However, I don’t see Merck being able to prove that majority wouldn’t be getting a hit/minority only getting the hit until proven scientifically. Eg: The lawsuit (should?) be thorough on the looks of it and the scientific material against the inhibitor is building up.
Like 19 said,
It’s not far fetched, in fact it’s probably one of the most likely reasons we reacted poorly to the med while others escape unscathed.
Scientists recommend genotyping men before using 5AR inhibitors, due to variance in the enzyme which can affect drug choice (various points in this thread):
viewtopic.php?f=8&t=1407
There are also genetic tests to test your androgen receptor CAG repeats, which determine how well/poor you will respond to Finasteride for hair loss, before taking it:
Based on these concepts, it seems extremely likely there is a genetic reason, possibly a predisposition, in us that separates us from others who only experience mild side effects or none at all when it comes to inhibiting 5AR2 and/or androgens/neurosteroids etc.
The question still remains though, what is the (likely) genetic aspect about us, that makes us so susceptible to these effects from Finasteride? The answer will likely come from molecular research in a lab.
Mew I could not understand your point on www.hairdx.com. This website only talks about hairloss, I don’t know how you set up relation between this tests and fin sides? I am sorry but could you clarify?
The HairDX Genetic Test for Male Pattern Hair Loss reports the presence or absence of a specific variation in the androgen receptor gene
A positive test result means that a man has the high risk genetic variation
Men who test positive for the variant AR gene have up to an 80% chance of developing hair loss. In contrast, men who test negative for the variant AR gene have up to a 90% chance of not developing hair loss
There is no (or little) correlation between DNA and the likelihood of developing PFS. A genetic reason cannot explain why some people on this board have taken fin for a long period, stopped, completely recovered; then, after years, they took it again for few days, and developed PFS. Unless their DNA changed between the 2 periods of finasteride usage, forget about explaining these instances with genetics.
Sorry if this is a stupid question but can anyone explain how the androgen receptor CAG repeats effect how you respond to Fin/5AR inhibitors?
Note the graph at bottom showing how AR CAG repeats determine Finasteride response (note this is in terms of hair loss response, but it shows for a fact there is a genetic basis for such response due to AR CAG repeat polymorphisms in different people).
Also, this post:
viewtopic.php?p=16016#p16016
There is no test for Finasteride side effects.
All the HairDX test tells you is if you will be a poor, medium or good potential responder to Finasteride for hair loss, before taking it, so you can weigh the option of whether to take it (ie, vs. risk of any potential side effects).
Mew it your own explanation “(ie, vs. risk of any potential side effects).”. Although I don’t rule out genetic possibility but I don’t know how you interpret this.
Second thing Mew how do you rule out Auto immune disorder in our case. How do you think we can not develop AID? The only thing which I am looking for is LH and FSH in vasectomised people. If they have high LH and FSH then might be different from us.
thnks
sps
Those of you who spoke with Irwig - does he seem to downplay the idea of genetic predisposition? I spoke with another member who said he mentioned something about “possibly permenantly” damaged hormonal pathways. Was pretty depressing to hear he feels that way and didn’t seem to mention anything about a genetic predisposition. Surprised he said that when other doctors and forum admins are looking at genetic predisposition. This is probably over simplification but why would he not consider pathology shared by those of us with PFS considering others get away completely unaffected?
I don’t believe in the genetic predisposition for PFS argument either. I was definitely prone to sides, but then so are one in six men according to my urologist. I quit and recovered maybe four or more times, but wasn’t paying attention at the time. I believe going on and off the stuff in quick succession and being oblivious to the sides, until it was too late, messed me up. Possibly with other factors like bad lifestyle at the end, and not slowly tapering the dose.
i think so too. i had no problems before i trusted a german hair loss forum that recommend to take propecia 3 weeks on and 1 week off every fuckin month, looool