I'm crying as I type this

I’m not looking for anything in particular in writing this. I’m just so depressed. I’m depressed even though I’ve read a number of fairly encouraging posts on here over the last month – mixed in with a number of very discouraging ones too. I try to focus on the positive stories…the guys who say they’ve improved, beaten it, had success with various regimens. I’ve looked for common ground between their stories and I think there is some: Healthy diet, sleep, positive attitude. Maybe T-boosting supplements. Maybe even progesterone.

CDNuts seems to have the most comprehensive recovery. In early November, I tried to replicate it, starting with the fast. But that was impossible. I got into the 3rd day and had no energy to move around at all – and I’m just not in a position where I can take the kind of time off from my life that would be required to pull off a true 14-day fast.

So I moved on to shifting to a Paleo diet, exercising more intelligently (for years, I blindly ran every day – probably wore my body down needlessly), cutting out alcohol, caffeine etc. I didn’t embrace it overnight. Some days I’d feel very depressed and just want to eat unhealthy food. Some days I’d feel very lonely and just want to go drink with friends – and while drinking, I’d feel good for a few hours. Not all better, not cured, not normal sexually or anything…but I’d just feel good to be out with people and the alcohol would relax me and improve my mood. The holidays weren’t good for the diet/lifestyle overhaul either. But I can definitely say that in November and December I ate much healthier than I’ve ever eaten and on the whole drank less booze and a LOT less caffeine than I have in my adult life. And I told myself I’d make the full transition on New Year’s Day. So here I am, 3 days in to a complete Paleo diet. And I take the T-boosting supplements CDNuts recommended – have been doing that for a month. I do the Iodine painting routine too – started that a week ago. I know it’s a lifestyle commitment, it’s about wanting it, improving gradually over time. But man, I just feel so empty. It would have been great in these past few months if I’d noticed any improvement during the periods when I was doing the Paleo/supplement routine…or in these last three days. If, like, after 3 days of being really good I was rewarded with my penis not being all retracted all day. I mean, I sit there feeling no connection between my brain and my penis. It’s tiny. It’s all retracted into my body. It doesn’t move ALL DAY. It’s just dead. I get an erection during the night or sometimes when I wake up – and it can’t disappear fast enough. I remember what it used to be like. How I’d wake up with a hard on, have to pee through it, and it would still be hard when I got back to my room. I remember how it would just naturally fluctuate during the day…random erections, half-erections, instant responses to things that turn me on. And now…just nothing.

And also: fat. Fat has just been accumulating all over my upper body. When I was on Propecia, it came around my hips and waist – I couldn’t figure it out at the time, why I was suddenly putting on weight there. When I stopped the drug, it shifted – I don’t even know exactly where, but like my upper chest under my arms and shoulders, I think even in my back – there’s just like a lot more fat sloshing around there now. Shirts that used to be big on me or fit perfectly are now embarrassing to wear. They’re so tight. They don’t fit. AND I HAVEN’T GAINED ANY WEIGHT!!! It’s just redistributed.

I guess I’m writing this because positive attitude seems to be such an important part of recovery, and I am just plagued with so much doubt. You can tell me to focus on the program, read just the recoveries, tell myself I’ll beat it … but it’s just not my nature to accept and believe something like that. I’m just the kind of person who needs evidence – constant, real vivid reinforcement that I’m on the right path. Without it, doubts builds, it eats at me and darkness descends. That’s where I am right now. In a really dark place. I’ve been dealing with this since June 2012. It’s now January 2014. I read some people on here who say it gets better with time – there’s a slow but steady pattern of improvement. Not for me. Not so far anyway. I read people on here who are able to establish connections between certain behaviors (eating this food, using that supplement) and specific results (“and when I took that, I felt great for three hours, then crashed again”), but that’s not been my experience. This has not been a roller-coaster for me. This has just been a steady state for more than a year and half of feeling like a eunuch. Of seeing how feminized my body has become. Of feeling that retracted, lifeless penis. Of watching any erection I wake up to just vanish within seconds. I got T injections for a while. The first one worked on and off for three weeks; there were days (and parts of days) when my sexual function was restored. When I remembered what I used to take for granted, realized how much I’d lost. But after that first injection, everyone after was like a placebo – no effect.

And now here I am, more than 18 months after realizing what Propecia was doing to me. This March will be the 3rd anniversary of when I started taking it. I remember a year ago at this time. I was scared. It had been an awful 6 months. But it was new to me – I still had hope that somehow, some way, I’d get out of it. The T injection had just (briefly) worked. I thought 2013 might bring light. Might bring normalcy, a future. But it brought nothing. Absolutely nothing. And in the last few weeks, as the steadiness of this condition has sunk in, and as I’ve realized just how much time has past – just how much of the prime of my life (I’m 34 now) I’ve lost – depression like I’ve never known has hit me. I broke down and told my parents a few weeks ago. It was awful. They raise their son trying to make a future for him, hoping for a good life for him, and now as they near their retirement years, this is how he comes back to them. I cry thinking about them. I look at old pictures of me as a kid and I cry. I think back to anything in my life before this nightmare started and I cry. I think of the future and I cry at its emptiness, its bleakness. People around me have noticed how much my mood has changed in the last month. They’ve asked me what’s wrong, tried to cheer me up. Work is a nightmare now. I have no motivation to do it. I have a high-pressure job. I wonder if I should quit, but I haven’t saved enough money where I can do that and take time to just try to get myself together. What I really think about more and more is suicide. Death used to terrify me. Actually it still does. But I think this has made me understand what exactly the despair is that makes someone choose death. I’m not saying I’m going to do it, but I think about it a lot lately. It all just seems hopeless.

Man im really sorry for you. I can exactly imagine how you feel and how you think…

I am in the same State as you.Crying is my only Hobby since my Crash…

I crashed April 2012, I had ups and downs. The last three months have been as upward as Chi and others describe. I have had almost full penis sensitivity and erotic thoughts. One thing I noticed is for 1.5 years I would be tired and flushed after and orgasm, now I have more and more energy and post orgasm brain fog is gone.

My advice, stay positive! I have studied hundreds of PFS accounts and the real improvements seem to come from the people who were most positive about improvement (you can throw me in that category) and time. Lots and lots of time and painfully slow improvements

Btw…first 6 months I had zero interest in sex/masturbation, maybe out of every 3 weeks I was good for 1-2 days, then 6 more months if ups and downs, then a terrible down swing, then months 12-18 wanting sex/masturbation 1-2 times a day, now wanting it 2 times as day. Obviously we all know this drug isn’t just about the sexual function, but I think it’s a good indicator of what’s going on and the improvements

Finatruth – I definitely believe there’s something to that. Yours is one of the stories I’ve followed, and you’ve consistently conveyed a positive approach and written of incremental progress. I think it might be the magic ingredient in what CDNuts pulled off – he was so totally focused, tunnel vision-like, on his program, he so adamantly believed it…there’s got to be a connection between that kind of positivity, that kind of dedication and making a recovery program work.

But I fear it’s a catch-22 for me. My nature is to worry, to obsess, to panic easily. That was my nature before I ever took Propecia. I suspect that nature – the wiring in my brain that made me that way – played into all of this. The way my brain is wired made me a perfect candidate to get wrecked by Propecia. And now to get out of it I need to develop an attitude that I’m just not wired to have. I can only fake outward positivity. I can’t fake it on the inside, where I seem to buy myself at best a few good hours here and there of believing I’m on some track to recovery, that I’m getting some kind of result of progress that’s eluded me. But then the doubt returns, the questioning, the second-guessing, the “Well wait a minute, didn’t I actually feel this same thing for 30 seconds back 9 months ago?” thoughts. I fear that I was perfectly wired to fall into this trap – and that same wiring makes it impossible for me to ever escape.

This is good to know. Just curious – have physical changes in your penis coincided with this? i.e. is it fuller/healthier/less retracted as your sexual appetite has increased? And are you getting spontaneous erections during the day? That’s the one thing I remember from those few days in November '12 when the T injection worked for me – I’d walk around and have a sexual (or even just romantic) thought, and I’d feel the connection – blood going to the penis, getting an erection. That just doesn’t happen now. I think about once a month I will randomly get an erection while sitting around and it will last for maybe 5-10 minutes. This has been happening steadily, though – about once a month since this all started.

Don’t give up. I know what it’s like to be in that state of mind. But 2014 will be a good year.

Sad reading. I feel for you.

I know it seems like the problems are piling up right now, but don’t get overwhelmed (this has been a problem for me too). Try focussing on a few things you want to improve in your life. Small manageable goals. The world can do its own thing for a while.

i am officially at rock bottom in my life. i realized last night what this drug did to me. my face looks different, i used to have fat there, it’s all been stripped away, this thing has aged me so much. the only thing i wanted in my fucking life was a girlfriend and to fall in love and i never got it. and now i feel like some kind of freak of society, people don’t even look at me the same. i’m only 25. how did this happen? i keep asking myself today, how the fuck did this happen? i kept trying to stay positive, but holy shit guys… i really am at rock bottom. i ran out of money trying different treatments, i have very few real friends anymore, no real relationships, i cant think properly, everyone looks at me different. i have tried putting myself out there. i keep talking to girls, trying relationships, trying to make friends. it is just not working out in anything i am trying to do. god bless my mom, i love her so much, if it wasnt for her i think i wouldve given up all ready. god please save me. im crying as i type this now too. i officially have nothing.

Dude, it’s really hard to manage the T injections.
You need to take them with a good enough frequency (2x per week at least), and control estrogen.
I also dismissed TRT in the past because I felt like SHIT after a couple of days of my first injection. That’s a good sign, that you’re responding, not a bad sign.
Here’s a good guide for you:
tnation.t-nation.com/free_online … injections

I read everything, and it hurts. There isn’t much to say, we all know how it is. I broke again a couple of weeks ago. It has been a while since last time. I’ve been exhausted to the point where I just want to let go, but I’m not going to, not now anyway. I have a family, friends and a girlfriend that cares what happens to me, and I know that it’s possible to recover. You know that too, based on your experience with TRT. It’s not the answer, but it’s worth it, even if it just gives you a glimpse of your former self.

Recent quitter- yes change in penis has correlated with recent improvements. It is starting to hang longer and fuller; more sensitive, not cold and numb, first 18 months cold and shriveled almost all the time

I get that it’s tricky. But after that first roller coaster ride on the first injection, I never got a bounce from it again. We increased dosage and frequency, different amounts/frequency of the estrogen-blocker and…nothing. Not even a good day or a few good hours. No sign that it was registering at all with my body. I don’t think that was a problem of balancing. If it was, I would have accidentally hit the sweet spot at some point. But never, not after that first injection. So I think there’s something else at work.

Yes, it’s more to it - possibly a thyroid issue.

Then how do you explain that it worked for the 1st time?
For me it also happened like that, if I try it for the 1st time (wihout being supressed), then I will feel the effects of my endogenous T + outside T, which works amazing. And then it starts to fade quite fast.
You can stay away from TRT, and let your body restore homeostasis, and then try again. I bet you’ll get the same effects as you had the 1st time.

I mean, my experience was that I took an injection on a Thursday afternoon and really felt the sexual benefits on Sunday. Then Monday, it was gone. By later in the week it was back, then gone after the weekend, back again, gone again – sometimes turning on and off during the day, and then it just stopped working completely. And EVERY OTHER injection I had after that produced ZERO response. Didn’t even at any point give me a few hours of response. That’s despite all sorts of attempts to switch dosage, frequency and using an AI. Zero response. The experience strongly suggests that something bigger was holding my system back. That the first jolt of T sort of overcame it, but was then overpowered by my broken system.

I think a lot about my parents and family who invested so much emotionally into me since I was a child and I reward them with this. Its like a bad bad dream.

I think about all the panic attacks, calling my parents in the middle of the night to tell them I love them because I was positive I was dying and all the times they drove me to the ER and all I can do is cry too guys. I’m coming up on 2 years since i quit and the anxiety and panic is still with me. I cannot believe I took a drug without knowing it fucks with you brain chemistry.

I tend to see things in a positive way… and here’s the way I see this (I’m a quite recent sufferer though)

I just had an appointment with my GP and we ended up laughing with my diagnosis. What I told her was what concerns me the most was not the ED or the loss of libido but the mental disorders that could causing me to loose my job that I really like. Fortunately I don’t need sex to pay my bills, otherwise I’d be fucked (Not literally)!

Other “good” thing about this, for those who have sexual side effects, is that we lost ED and libido. It would be a lot more worse If we had a phenomenal willingness to have sex but no matter what we do, we couldn’t have an erection. I haven’t had sex or masturbated in a few weeks now and I’m not emotionally destroyed, depressed or whatever specifically because of this. We have a problem, we have to fix it, but it’s not the end of life/world.
Another positive thing is that we don’t feel pain, unlike a cancer where people are eaten from the inside.

There’s a lot of perspectives where we can see this, these are just 2. Take it as a test that you can’t fail!

There’s another neutral thing, probably just related to a very reduced percentage of men around here. I’m gay and I didn’t have the social pressure of having a family, kids, and so on, before this problem… I guess this kind of pressure is also added on top of most of you. (Irony of life, struggled like hell to have a decent boyfriend, got one couple of months ago and now this. Fortunately he is doctor and very understandable. woof. Let’s see for how long…)

Either way, think positive, always! If you have something that you really like to do like, singing, dancing, playing an instrument, meditate, now it’s the time to do it! If you don’t have any, try some, I’m sure that you’ll have one that you’ll really like!
We’re fortunate to be in a time where information is so vast and communication is so quick. Although, the downside of this is that people get obsessed with all this information and I can tell you that this forum has been my second job since I discovered it and I’ve learned a lot BUT I have some symptoms that I don’t know if I have because I’ve read it here or because I really have them!

These are my newbie 2 cents. Take care y’all!

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Breather, I’m a gay dude too. These libido issues make me think I’ll never find a boyfriend, because who will really be able to accept it? My sexual health doctor told me that I may over-estimate just how much people have sex, but I don’t know. Is once a week sufficient??

You mentioned that we’re fortunate not to feel pain. Unfortunately that’s not necessarily true. Latest symptom for me is an aching feeling in my groin that never goes away. Sometimes it has me curling over in pain, but most of the time it’s just “there”. I’m nearly always conscious of it and sometimes it wakes me up. It is also quite draining. Imagine having a headache forever, in your penis. :neutral_face:

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