Ibuprofen Use

[Mew]

If Ibuprofen really is helping, it would indicate that some kind of inflammation is part of the post-Fin syndrome. It could be neuronal inflammation, which occurs alongside de-myelination in the brain. Considering that many of our symptoms are similar to those found in other de-myelinating diseases - muscle twitches, memory problems, fatigue - all this isn’t quite as crazy as it sounds.

You may be on to something. I decided to look into this and interestingly enough, Ibuprofen has been linked to decreased Alzheimer’s Disease risk:

google.ca/search?hl=en&safe= … arch&meta=

Ibuprofen Suppresses Plaque Pathology and Inflammation in a Mouse Model for Alzheimer’s Disease
jneurosci.org/cgi/content/full/20/15/5709

Ibuprofen protects dopaminergic neurons against glutamate toxicity in vitro
sciencedirect.com/science?_o … 2658f2b167

• “…In addition, ibuprofen alone increased the relative number of dopaminergic neurons by 47%”

(this is more related to Parkinson’s, but they do mention AD)

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Now, you may be asking why I mention Alzheimer’s… well, the symptoms of Alzheimer’s seem to be similar to those of “brain fog” from Finasteride: changes in mood and behaviour, memory impairment, cognitive dysfunction, speech issues, mental decline, depression, anxiety, confusion, paranoia etc.

Read symptom details:
helpguide.org/elder/alzheime … stages.htm

Also, this post from another member who received a response from a doctor (supposedly) on a web forum somewhere, concerning Finasteride, Allopregnanolone and demyelination of neurons: propeciahelp.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=188

"Propecia (Finasteride) is an Anti Androgenic agent. It reduces the levels of Di Hydro Testestoserone in the body and thus stimulating hair growth.

Now, it is seen in rare cases that this Finasteride also reduces the production of Allopregnanolone in the body.

This Allopregnanolone is required for the proper functioning of the neurons of the brain and a decrease in its levels causes a degenerative accumulation of fat on the brain neurons, which causes a slowing of the neuronal impulses and gives rise to the Brain Fog and Weakness.

Now, this process in the early stages can be reversed, and you need to stop taking Propecia.

When you stop taking Propecia, the production of Allopregnolone in your body will rise and correct the imbalance and reduce your symptoms.This will definitely solve your problem.

If you continue to use propecia then your brain fog can detiriorate and mimic symptoms of Nieman-Pick’s Disease, with a progressive demylination of your brain neurons.

For your hair loss, you can apply Solution Minoxidil over the affected areas,
This will be better and without such serious side effects, as it is a topical application and will not be absorbed in your body.

To sum it up, you need to stop the Propecia and use Minoxidil topical application; this will solve both your problems.

I have answered all your questions completely and following my advice will help you with the hair loss as well as decreasing and eventually eliminating the Brain Fog.

Please rate my answer and leave a nice comment, I would really appreciate it.
Also, please let me have the option of contacting you in the future, as this way it will be easy for me to pass on any new information that I get, for free of course.

Sincerely,

Dr.Saurabh Joshi"

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Now, here is my theorizing with regards to Finasteride use:

As per this posting citing concerns about decreased Allopregnanolone and neurodegenerative diseases such as Alzheimers, Niemann-Pick etc ( propeciahelp.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=38
…

… it is also interesting to note reduced Allopregnanolone levels may play a part in Alzheimer’s to a certain extent:

The neurosteroid allopregnanolone is reduced in prefrontal cortex in Alzheimer’s disease
cat.inist.fr/?aModele=afficheN&cpsidt=18368353

• “…Conclusions: Subjects with AD demonstrate significant reductions in PFC allopregnanolone levels, a finding that may be relevant to neuropathological disease stage severity. Neurosteroids may have utility as candidate biomarkers in AD”

Regenerative potential of allopregnanolone.
biomedexperts.com/Abstract.b … egnanolone

"Data from multiple levels of analysis ranging from in vitro cellular models to in vivo animal models to clinical investigations indicate that the decline of neurosteroids play a key role in successful aging and prevention of neurodegenerative disease Alzheimer’s.

Among the neurosteroids in decline during aging is allopregnanolone (APalpha, a metabolite of progesterone, which is reduced in the serum, plasma and brain of aged vs. young subjects. Further, Alzheimer’s disease (AD) victims exhibit an even greater reduction in plasma and brain levels of APalpha relative to age-matched neurologically normal controls."

“Initial analyses suggest that APalpha may maintain the regenerative ability of the brain, modify progression of AD related pathology and reverse learning and memory deficits in 3 x TgAD mice”

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So, tying it all together:

1. We took Finasteride, which impaired Allopregnanolone neurosteroid production while we took it

2. Low Allopregnanolone levels may potentially be involved in Alzheimer’s pathology

3. Ibuprofen use has been found to help reduce the risk of Alzheimers, and reduce neuronal plaques in an Alzheimer’s mouse model

4. Members in this thread are stating Ibuprofen use improved their impaired mental/cognitive symptoms, just as Ibuprofen use has been linked to a positive effect on Alzheimer’s prevention or progression

Now, I am not advocating people jump on a daily regime of Ibuprofen use… I was simply trying to see if there was a logical connection to be made between Ibuprofen use and what people described in this thread with regards to improvements in mental side effects. There are many dangerous side effects (including kidney damage and stomach bleeding) from longterm use of Ibuprofen and debate still rages in the medical field wether it should be prescribed for a disease some people may or may not get decades later.

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The good thing is: Allopregnanolone is also involved in neuroregeneration and neuroprotection.

Considering:

1. Many people’s anxiety and depressive symptoms cleared up shortly after discontinuing Finasteride (Allopregnanolone no longer inhibited)

2. Members are able to get drunk again after quitting Finasteride (alcohol increases Allopregnanolone synthesis; when taking Finasteride the drug inhibits Allopregnanolone and prevents feeling drunk… after quitting Fin, Allopregnanolone can once again be synthesized to activate GABA-A receptors to give you the drunk feeling – I can personally attest to this one)

3. Members’ slow but steady improvements in mental function the longer they’ve been off

… it seems likely that it is a gradual process for the brain to “repair” itself from the damage Finasteride caused, now that Allopregnanolone is likely functiong correctly again.

We can probably help speed healing further via natural supplements, excercise (cardio especially) and diet as mentioned below. Again from bio.net/bionet/mm/neur-sci/2 … 58929.html

If 5AR inhibitors do pose long term risks and you absolutely have to take them, it may be possible to lessen the neurological damage with things like acetyl-l-carnitine, minocycline, l-theanine, taurine, curcumin, green tea (EGCG), CoQ10, nicotinamide/niacinamide, creatine, ketogenic diets, so on and so forth (each of which carries with it its own complicating factors).

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Looking for natural strategies to help prevent Alzheimer’s, if you do research on “Alzheimer’s diets” or foods, you’ll come across a bunch of info, some of which was listed here: propeciahelp.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=2237

Make sure you take Omega-3 fish oil supplements! Also, apparently ketogenic diets seem to help with minimizing seizures (for those with muscle twitches), and have been linked to improvements in Alzheimer’s plaques.

In addition, I also came across mention of extra-virgin olive oil acting similarly to Ibuprofen:

Ibuprofen-like activity in extra-virgin olive oil
nature.com/nature/journal/v4 … 7045a.html

Olive oil component has ibuprofen-like activity
cme.medscape.com/viewarticle/538330

“Olive oil is not, however, likely to become a substitute for ibuprofen. The investigators found that oleocanthal is about as potent as ibuprofen but occurs in such low levels in the oil that about half a liter would be required to equal the dose in two standard ibuprofen tablets.”

Olive Oil Contains Natural Anti-inflammatory Agent
thyroid.about.com/b/2005/08/30/o … -agent.htm

So make sure you eat your olives. A mediterranean diet may be just what the doctor ordered.

[cdnuts]

Great post.

[ScaredMale30]

Really interesting post Mew.

Can I ask: after stopping Fin, were you immediately able to get drunk again?

I’ve realised that for the past few years on Fin I was unable to get drunk. I can’t believe I missed that change. I guess I was never a big drinker anyway, so it was easier to remain unaware.

Anyway, I’m noticing the alcohol maybe affects me more now, but definitely now as much as it did pre-Fin. I’m 6 months off. I’m really hoping for the improvement in cognition that you’ve experienced, but it has to be noted that for some cognitive sides have remained even after sexual sides improved a little.

How did the alcohol thing play out for you?

Anyway, the fact that

(i) you’ve experienced considerable improvement in cognitive sides, and

(ii) you can now get drunk

is pretty convincing anecdotal evidence that Propecia causes cognitive impairment by blocking allopregnenolone.

[Mew]

Can I ask: after stopping Fin, were you immediately able to get drunk again?

No, the feelings of “relaxation” from drinking were absent for many months after quitting the drug.

It took well over a year before I was able to start to feel the effects of alcohol again.

After 2 years off, the effects became more pronounced and now 3.5 years off, the effects are maybe 70-80% compared to my pre-Fin self.

It’s kind of interesting… reading how one glass of red wine a day or few times a week may help prevent Alzheimer’s and other mental diseases… well, maybe increased allopregnanolone synthesis is one reason why.

[rzron2]

Any more updates?

[italysideeffect]

ibuprofene definitely helps to clear up my mind…i just did try 2 times and it worked

[fkthesedrugs]

.

[Mew]

You can’t “buy” allopregnanolone or pregnanolone in a store.

Pregnenolone cream is prescription only, I believe.

[liquidfirex]

@Mew

You can’t “buy” allopregnanolone or pregnanolone in a store.

Pregnenolone cream is prescription only, I believe.

biogenesis-antiaging.com/p74 … _info.html

amazon.com/Source-Naturals-P … pd_sim_b_7

[Mew]

I stand corrected on the Pregnelonone. Good to know.

[cdnuts]

Okay, I’m a bit confused after reading up on this hormone. I was under the impression that pregnenolone was converted to allepregnenolone which directly acts on Gaba receptors making them work better and inducing relaxtion and or stopping the background static in your mind. All of these studies say that pregnenolone actually inhibits Gaba activity? I definitely don’t need my Gaba activity inhibited. I need just the opposite of that? Can anyone explain this?

[golf]

from an article on epigenetics:

Issa: Perhaps the single most important chemo-preventive intervention is anti-inflammatory drugs. We’ve known for decades from epidemiological studies that people who regularly take aspirin have a lower rate of certain cancers. Now we can at least propose the idea that inflammation damages the epigenome and repressing inflammation restores or maintains epigenetic health.

pbs.org/wgbh/nova/genes/issa.html

[martinM]

@Mew

2. Members are able to get drunk again after quitting Finasteride (alcohol increases Allopregnanolone synthesis; when taking Finasteride the drug inhibits Allopregnanolone and prevents feeling drunk… after quitting Fin, Allopregnanolone can once again be synthesized to activate GABA-A receptors to give you the drunk feeling – I can personally attest to this one)

This is a really good point for me. I’ve been off 2 years and I still am away from alcohol. I’m away because I feel like shit after I drink it, but I haven’t been able to feel the effects of alcohol since about 8 months before I quit fin. It’s been over 2.67 years.

[fkthesedrugs]

This lack of mental ability to feel the effects of alcohol could also be related to the dopamine system somehow as alcohol is known to stimulate dopamine to produce a relaxing euphoria type effect

“When alcohol hits the mesolimbic pathway, it triggers the rapid release of dopamine, thereby creating a pleasurable high.”

wired.com/magazine/2010/06/f … onymous/4/

[lawyer23]

I sprained my back badly and have been taking 600 - 800 mg of Advil every six hours or so for the past two days. My sexual problems (erection strength, orgasm satisfaction) have somewhat improved.

Of course, correlation isn’t causation, and this might be a coincidence, but I thought I should note this occurrence here.

[bluejaysfan]

I would just like to warn guys that have had some liver tests come back high, be careful with the ibuprofen. It can damage your liver.

[moonman1]

Ibuprofen, Advil, etc are COX2 inhibitors. They decrease inflammation especially in the prostate by inhibiting prostaglandin e2.

Seriously take 1gram of Tylenol you will notice a difference. It is supposed to be safe up to 4g a day. Of coarse keep an eye on ur liver values. Quercetin and Cucumin also work the same way w the prostate but not as well.

[BadLuck]

Seriously take 1gram of Tylenol you will notice a difference. It is supposed to be safe up to 4g a day.

Tylenol has well documented issues with liver damage.
medicalnewstoday.com/articles/46607.php

[moonman1]

@BadLuck

Seriously take 1gram of Tylenol you will notice a difference. It is supposed to be safe up to 4g a day.

Tylenol has well documented issues with liver damage.
medicalnewstoday.com/articles/46607.php

That study was daily use for 14 straight days at 4 grams a day.

I am saying try 1g one time.

[martinM]

@moonman1

@BadLuck

Seriously take 1gram of Tylenol you will notice a difference. It is supposed to be safe up to 4g a day.

Tylenol has well documented issues with liver damage.
medicalnewstoday.com/articles/46607.php

That study was daily use for 14 straight days at 4 grams a day.

I am saying try 1g one time.

This strategy has caused some people who took Propecia one time a world of hurt…