I think PFS is Endocrine System disruption

General Discussion
#21

You would make a tea with the powder. Then, if you filtered the solids left after and evaporated the water, the residue would be an extract. Extracts are usually more potent than just turning into powder the interesting part of the plant.

I think people have pre-dispositions to pfs. I don’t think the damage is irreversible although for some, the time and right, ideal conditions have to be tuned in even further.

I’m currently studying brain cell regeneration in the Hyppocampus area. People can say there is damage elsewhere in the body but in my opinion, considering that people get pretty much in the same state with anti-depressant, whatever drug was taken unbalanced the neural and endocrine system (the guts having lots of neurons as well as most of the serotonin) and that is the source of it all.

Initially it could be too much serotonin (with SSRI) or not enough GABA (with fin) but the end result is the Hypophysis and Hypothalamus are not regulated and those are the ones regulating hormones, neurotransmitters (Enzymes, neuropeptides, neurosteroids etc…). So from that point on, it’s like having a truck driven by a monkey. Our hormones and neurotransmitters range all over the spectrum until we get stuck in an uncomfortable, somewhat stable balance that is easy to upset.

Good news, I believe specific diets, exercises and supplements can be undertaken to correct the imbalances, generate new cells in the Hyppocampus area and improve the overall health. If I was in the US, I would visit a Daniel Amen clinic. He does brain scans (as a matter of fact, he’s the world’s leading psychiatrist doing brain scan) and has a balanced approach to fix the problem that mostly focus on diets, exercise and supplements, along with some changes in attitudes and thinking habits, leaving drugs only for the most urgent and extreme symptoms.

I suggest doing some research on Dr. Daniel Amen. There’s a lots of videos, articles and books by him.

#22

Yes but every case is so different. Like mine, I’ve had complete androgen shutdown. Steady, spasmic twitches in my muscles, and my skin is foreign, there’s actually little subcutaneous lumps underneath my skin, you can squeeze them and they almost “crunch”. Skin has a rubbery, fake texture to it. When I do light exercise like jogging, I’ll sweat underneath my armpits and my back, but my belly and arms just have a cold, clammy feel to them, like there’s a bloodflow issue or something. My actual skin complexion has also changed. I used to have more of a tan, natural looking skin tone (i’ve always been pale), but now it is more of a artificial, dead looking pale color. Like it just doesn’t look natural. I don’t see which diets or supplements can allow my body to fix such a thing. I want more than anything to believe that I can heal from this and be normal again, but I just don’t see how. The change is so severe.

1 Like
#23

@Ozeph What is very interesting is that since day 1 of my crash, 8 months ago, I have had steady, horrible smelling gas. Lots of stomach rumbling when I eat pretty much anything. Most of the things I eat, I have a neurological reaction to. So I have a constant cognitive brain fog that never really goes away, almost like a derealization, where you feel slightly misplaced from everything and it feels like you’re 50-70% actually there. When I eat different foods, especially sugars and carbs, this foggy feeling intensifies. It is very interesting that all of these things are interconnected.

#24

Well, just to give you examples of what I’ve learned in my research and experiment in the last year, and I don’t mean to say I’m right. I’ll just mention how what your describing translate to me:

“I’ve had complete androgen shutdown. Steady, spasmic twitches in my muscles”: Low GABA resulting in unregulated Hypophysis, which resulted in androgen shutdown. “skin problems of all sorts”: Some enzyme not being produced as a result of the endocrine / neuronal system being imbalanced. “horrible smelling gas, lots of stomach rumbling”: obviously an imbalance of the biodome, Serotonin and Acetyl-Choline involved. Vagus nerve deregulated. “Most of the things I eat, I have a neurological reaction to”: need for a restrictive diet until things get better. “Brain fog, derealization especially with especially sugars and carbs”: The diet need to restrict sugar and carbs. Overall symptoms translate to me in: Lack of Tyrosine, Dopamine, GABA, Serotonin, Choline (and Acetyl-Choline).

If you also have the following, it would further confirm, IMO, this hypothesis:

Lack of GABA: you also have anxiety, problem sleeping.
Lack of Dopamine: You have lack of motivation, you feel like procrastinating all the time, no sex drive.
Lack of Serotonin: You’re feeling depress, unsure of yourself. Maybe also insecure when around people and not assertive with people.
Lack of Tyrosine: Low focus, simple tasks become complicated and already mentioned brain fog.
Lack of Acetyl-Choline: Food doesn’t go down easy, stay in stomach. Bowel movement is slow.

Now I’m not saying all of this is true, I’m just expressing, according to what I believe I have learned in the last year, what I think is the cause for all the aforementioned symptoms. I might be wrong.

But if there’s truth into that and I would have the same symptoms, I would know what kind of diet and supplements to try. I can’t say it would cure me, but I believe I could get myself to feel better and have less symptoms.

So I still believe diet, exercise, attitude and supplements, in that order, are powerful tools to alleviate pfs symptoms. One thing for sure, if I was you, I would stop sugar and limit carbs as much as possible and replace the calories missing with saturated fat or coconut oil, as well as lots of protein. If you try go easy into it and see how you feel along the way.

I’m now leaving to a birthday party where I will have plenty of carbs. 10 months ago, this would have triggered lots of symptoms. Today I probably won’t have any (although I will not stuff myself with sugar)

Update: I had too much sugar and had some anxiety, but it was very mild. Later on, I took Ashwagandha and Bacopa along with 5-HTP, L-Dopa and Tyrosine and I’m now focus, clear minded confident and motivated. A bit tired but it’s 7:30pm and I will sleep in 2 hours.

2 Likes
#25

The problem that I have with your theory is that my symptoms where opposite. after stopping saw palmetto I had sleep issues and anxiety, after I took magnesium I was at peace calmed and relaxed. I had emotional bluntness, I had lack of fear I didn’t feel afraid. my fiend tried to scare me one time by jumping in from of me with a mask and I didn’t feel a thing not startled not anything. this feeling stayed with me for almost a year now. I think this is because of adrenal issue.
This is what i think pfs is:
It is and endocrine disruption by the drug some mechanism/mechanisms where affected (different from people to people) where it got overloaded and got messed up. it takes time and right diet to make tings working properly.
what i think is that stomach doesn’t takes in enough/all nutrients and the body responds by this differently.
keto diet helped lot of people.
fasting helped lot of people.
Time helped lot of people.

For you @ Dknighten i think your adrenalin glands reacted, they are pumping out stress hormones (this is my opinion and i might not be right) this is why you are heaving sleep problems and estrogen issues. I read that cortisol converts testosterone into estrogen. fasting should lower your hormones including estrogen. I noticed that you had a high testosterone and that could be the reason why you have high estrogen. you have more testosterone to be converted into estrogen.
try magnesium 150 mg this is 50% of the DV it is good for lot of things in body.

best of luck to you brother. I know how you feel I remember the dreadful feeling and I want to tell you that I am sleeping better and I am getting stronger/better erections. you took one pill i took 450mg saw palmetto for 21 or 25 days. you will be better. try relaxing and fasting and see how it helps.

#26

@Ozeph

  • Sure. Cyp3a4 is one of those enzymes responsible for oxidizing foreign toxins, to say it easily, is a detox enzyme. Mainly found in the liver and in the intestine, is waht detoxes us from almost all the medications we take including… finasteride.
    Finasteride is eliminated from our bodies by two enzymes, first cyp3a4 and then aldehyde dehydrogenase.
    Despite i didn’t finsh my researches, is evident how important cyp3a4 is. Is our main detox enzymes, it consitutes a detx channel and that channel must be kept open. Not only to eliminated fin (i suppose we still have it inside) but eliminate everythin (many of us use meds, drugs, supplements).
    Another thing i suppose is that fin can inhibit it’s own metabolism, maybe inhibiting cyp3a4 but for sure inhibiting other things like 5-beta reductase (https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19515843), binding glutathione- transferase and nadph (i read about this theory on that other forum and might be true, since some guys recover when taking n-acetyl-cysteine).

  • Did you notice anything taking cysteine and glutathione?

  • are ashwagandha and bacopa 5ari’s? i hope no…

  • yes, i also think that the right diet, exercise and attitude can solve pfs, and i also think that some of us have a predisposition, for example i was pretty much obsessive on my own. if we could accept hair loss, we wouldn’t have taken fin. :stuck_out_tongue:

  • you know what other thing seems to help? i know a guy who’s claiming good results with it’s kinesiologist.

1 Like
#27

Thanks for the explanation. It makes sense. The liver always gets hit with drugs, because they are unatural molecules the liver is not made to deal with them. Many drugs do liver damage.

I took Cysteine and Glutathione early on after I crashed. Maybe 3-4 months. I kept my mind sharp all along. Glutathione prevents high levels of Cortisol or Glutamate from doing damage to the brain. So I can’t say it made a noticeable change but I’m sure it did its job at protecting the brain. One thing I’m sure, it didn’t do damage: I didn’t feel bad with it. As a matter of fact, I still take 500 mg Glutathione every day.

ashwagandha and bacopa raises sex drive and promote sexual hormones, especially for men. I don’t know if they are 5ari, but I doubt it. If they prevented testosterone transformation into DHT, it would have negative impact on male sexuality and it is claimed to do the opposite.

I would lose my hair in exchange for losing this disease anytime. Sure thing !

#28

Your case is similar to mine. I stopped fin, had severe anxiety and insomnia, along with many other symptoms (but those two were the most hurtful).

I took magnesium, 450 mg a day, still take it every day, and I was on a ketogenic diet for 11 months, doing intermittent fasting for some time. Now I’m on a paleo diet so I can eat colorful fruits and veggies while still being low carbs. Almost all symptoms are gone except insomnia, but it’s better.
If I eat lots of sugar, I still get anxiety.

I think we have a similar theory, we’re just expressing it in a different way. And I agree, every body ends up with different symptoms and reacts differently.

#30

sorry for this off-topic guy but, do you also get this notification when posting?

42
42694×248 8.17 KB

#31

For the magnesium, citrate and malate, etc, is all the same isnt it? Just dissolve the powder into water. After the reaction to Betaine I’m hesitant to try anything

#32

Thanks for the info Kan! Can you share your sources as a 5ari?

#33

Can’t find it now, I remember that some years ago I took it and after I crashed I looked for more information and if I am not mistaken I found that it was a 5ar inhibitor. But I can’t find it now and my PFS memory is not great, so it could be the case that I am wrong.

#34

I bought pills from amazon. look at the reviews and stars, more people rating is the better quality.

magnesium doesn’t exists in a form of its own it has to be bound to something. it is better absorbed by body. some might cause diarrhea but others will work with you better. you need to do research. little bit

when you take magnesium you might feel like you are high and it feels very good that means your body is absorbing it and you will feel good. that high isn’t really a high it is how you should feel. you will get used to that feeling.

good luck

#35

My sleep and erections are not really the issue. I can sleep a full night without waking up. However, I am very tired and disoriented when I get up. I can look at a nude my girlfriend sends me and get horny instantly, but my erections are certainly much smaller. My genitals have changed significantly with the rest of my body. That is my primary point here. My symptoms are not simply that I cannot sleep, or that I have reduced libido. If those were the only concerns I had, I would never log into this forum ever again. My ENTIRE BODY has changed gradually since day 1 of crashing, and now rapidly over the last month. It is the strangest thing imaginable and I have yet to find someone that’s had similar symptoms.I know they are out there though. As far as mental symptoms go, I believe me and @Mcbbould to have similar issues. Physically, I would have to say @holyhead possibly, though it’s hard to say.

Not that my issues are more important or more life-changing than any others. I know everyone is fighting this every day. That’s not how I mean to come across, simply that the symptoms I am experiencing, from what I have seen on this forum, differ from impotence, brain fog, etc. That’s all I am trying to stress.

1 Like
#36

I bought a kilo of food grade magnesium chloride from China. It’s used to made tofu. In this form it ionizes completely and both the magnesium and the chloride ion are available. Both are essential electrolytes. But as thûr_nike mentions, there are many forms. try and see for yourself.

If you want things to change but does not want to take chances, change your diet: Paleo, low carbs no sugar shouldn’t be too hard to do and is quite safe.

#37

That’s crazy you brought up ashwaganda as a 5ARi there is also another PFS patient who told me after he took it it made his PFS baseline even worse!!!

#38

I just did some research and found no evidence of Ashwagandha being 5-ari. It could be that I didn’t find the source but I still believe it promotes 5-ar and DHT.

However, first time I tried it 5 months after I crashed, I couldn’t tolerate it. There are many other reasons aside being 5-ari that would made it feel bad, for example if it does not harmonize with you current state of neurotransmitters or hormones, or if your body is in the process of rejecting all kinds of food, it could also reject this herb.

To my surprise, anxiolytic herbs like passion flowers and kava were off limits for me 6 months ago and now I can take them. And so were Ashwagandha and Bacopa.

I think the ketogenic diet made the difference. Again, I will state that, in my opinion, diet is the most important aspect of recovery along with time (but time alone does not necessarily does it). Exercise, good attitude and supplements are complementary to diet and time.

#39

I have searched for it again and I couldn’t find any source about ashwagandha being a 5ar inhibitor. Maybe I am not remembering it well, or maybe the I just can’t find the information.

Just in case, I’ll erase the post in which I say it is a 5ar inhibitor, because in case I am wrong, I don’t want to cause any confusion.

But for some reason I crashed on it, so I wouldn’t recommend it, especially in bad cases.

2 Likes
#40

I agree. I also wouldn’t recommend it to anyone with severe symptoms. Nor would I recommend any specific amino I tried, not without a serious warning anyway. After I crashed, I would’t tolerate any sleeping herbs either. Now I can.

In my opinion, for severe cases that want to try and get improvements, the first thing to do is to change diet to something somewhat more restrictive. With symptoms all over the place, you want an overall approach.

It seems the first things to eliminate is sugar, preservatives, pesticides, artificial colors and flavors and all highly processed food. That can’t be dangerous, on the contrary, we all agree it’s bad for anyone healthy or not. Then if things improve a bit, to take it a bit further by eliminating gluten, corn, dairy, soy. That still leaves plenty of things to eat. (And of course, I would end up in a carnivore / ketogenic / low carbs paleo diet for at least 3 to 6 months with some fasting or at least intermittent fasting)

Nice trick to get rid of pesticides: a bucket, 1 liter of water and 1/4 cup baking sodas. You just soak in you veggies and fruits in the mix, rub them a bit and then rinse them with fresh water. It’s like washing them with edible soap.
I keep the mixture in a bottle and reuse it for 3 days as the mixture is inhospitable to bacteria.

#41

Do you have a trick for storing washed fruits/veggies? I’m always aggravated with this because if they don’t dry completely and I put them back into the container into the fridge, they mould up lol. I always rinse them with water AS I use them and it is so annoying.