I think the people who stick around this forum are the unlucky ones who don’t get better or recover. Huge selection bias. The most cynical people are cynical based on their own experience and extrapolate to the rest of the group.
If people can imagine these crashes in their head (some describe it so extremely) then I’m going to put on a limb and say you could have imagined PFS all together in your head. The same logic applies just on a different scale. People claim to “crash” with extreme dizziness and physical pain. I don’t think that’s in anyone’s “head.” Just like your “slowly declining state” is not in your head.
No need to be so pessimistic dude. I’ve personally talked to two guys who recovered, one fully and the other one to around 95% where he can live his life normally and not constantly think of pfs.
Even I am much better than I was six months ago, although I’m nowhere near recovered.
I think the people who stick around this forum are the unlucky ones who don’t get better or recover. Huge selection bias.
Nope. Many people leave the forum because they have accepted the fact that they wont recover and because they are able to live with the symptoms. Your assumption that those people who leave have recovered or got significantly better is not based on anecdotal evidence.
I dont believe in these constant crashes some people say they experience. I think its an incorrect term. I think its normal fluctuation + mood swings as accurately described by @Sibelio.
No need to be so pessimistic dude. I’ve personally talked to two guys who recovered, one fully and the other one to around 95% where he can live his life normally and not constantly think of pfs.
If someone has mild symptoms its very easy to feel like you have recovered after the immediate panic experienced after discontinuation of the drug disappears. Especially if the person switches to a healthy diet, sports and regular sleeping patterns as a result of the experience. Even a person with a more severe symptom profile can adjust and continue. Adaptation after all is the expertise of humans. That doesnt mean whatsoever that these people have recovered.
I’ll second that. I’ve adapted to a certain degree but I’m still a shell of my former self. Not severely depressed and anxious all the time, boners are easier to cum by, and sleep is a tad better, but my happy, ambitious, horny, rock hard morning wood self almost feels like a past life as this point. What I would give to wake up again with good libido, a smile, and rock hard wood and be happy looking out the window and going outside in the summer. What I would give to get that euphoric feeling when I see a pretty girl who smiles at me, or even the inner peace of looking at the ocean.
The answer is I’d give everything and I’m trying my hardest. The only thing I have complete control over is the effort i put in each day.
Can you please show me where I said anything about the people who leave the forum? I mentioned people who stay. I understand that both recovered and non-recovered people leave the forum. But I assure you nobody who recovers sticks around. So as I said, the people who stick around are the ones who don’t recover.
Can you please show me where I said anything about the people who leave the forum? I mentioned people who stay.
You said the following (bolded part added by me):
I think the people who stick around this forum are the unlucky ones who don’t get better or recover. Huge selection bias.
A huge selection bias can only occur if a very significant number of people who leave this forum that actually suffered from PFS (i.e. not those that registered days after discontinuation and quickly improved) recovered. No anecdotal evidence points in that direction. If anything we hear that people have accepted PFS and moved on, find the forum mentally draining etc. One of the worst cases of PFS actually left the forum (depressed guy) and got annoyed when people kept sending him emails assuming he had recovered (which he hasnt). My brother has left the forum even though he has not recovered even a bit.
Here is what depressed guy said:
Its his last/ most recent post posted in May 2017 (he left earlier and came back to clarify why he left).
You dont stick around if you have adapted successfully or are trying to adapt (at least its plausible to not want to stick around, as it can throw people off balance if they read headings like the header of this thread). If you recovered you usually want to share it, especially if its a legitimate recovery where the body reversed all the changes induced by finasteride (very rare! in my estimation!).
I would say its the opposite: If all of the people who left the forum who had a legitimate case of PFS returned, the scale would tip enormously to the side of those who are claiming to not make any improvement. Those that are chasing a miracle cure and hype up every upswing as the start of a recovery, or those who want to scam people out of their money by hyping up their own fake recoveries (cdnuts and co) are very active on multiple platforms.
Makes sense, but I don’t think everyone claiming recovery on swole source for example is scamming. Have you ever done the math on CDnuts? How much do you think he could possibly make a year? 30k? Not worth it. He spent years and years posting to simply make 30k a year? PFS is so rare and that is literally the smallest addressable market possible. Nobody would waste their time scamming pfs ppl. But anyways that’s tangential. All I’m saying is that people who stick around here are 100 percent the ones that don’t get better. Ones who do leave the forum for sure. They go elsewhere. And I agreed that people who leave are also still suffering, aka depressed guy. But even in the post you share, his brain fog disappeared - that’s a huge improvement
Well depressed guy is still a wreck according to his own description though. I believe cdnuts is scamming multiple communities out of their money. He is a seller of supplements. He sells through multiple channels and has a (undisclosed) contract with lostempireherbs.com (affiliate program, confirmed by the company).
Makes sense, but I don’t think everyone claiming recovery on swole source for example is scamming.
I dont think so either. Many are engaging in wishful thinking and are manipulated by the placebo effect. Some have milder forms of PFS and their rigorous exercise etc plus wishful thinking are masking their side effects. Also people are discouraged to report accurately, as they are torn to shreds by the swole source community if they do.
A real recovery from someone suffering from a medium-severe case of PFS is very rare. Just like a recovery from cancer happening without any treatment would be very rare. A light case of PFS is often easy to ignore by the one affected if he is determined to do so.
Gotcha. Well if wishful thinking and a healthy lifestyle can mask the symptoms, I think that’s a pragmatic approach to works. may ask a personal question: is the reason you come here for support only? If this site is only about support and not being hopeful, I see why swole source exists. Some wish to continue fighting against all odds (yes trying to beat cancer) and the negativity is simply not good for that fight. I understand them.
Gotcha. Well if wishful thinking and a healthy lifestyle can mask the symptoms, I think that’s a pragmatic approach to works.
For a “light” case of PFS its enough to ignore them. Of course if the person would look closely he would realize that he does actually have PFS.
may ask a personal question: is the reason you come here for support only? If this site is only about support and not being hopeful, I see why swole source exists.
I come here to see what the progress is re studies+internal projects (like this new survey). Swolesource and sites similar will alway exist, even if its a waste of money to buy these herbs.
For neurological recoveries of PFS it might be worth researching the brain and it’s ability to recover from various conditions. Is the brain actually capable of recovering by itself in these circumstances?
Which conditions have the best recoveries and what are their similarities to PFS? What did those recoveries entail in terms of treatment.
Perhaps the answers to these questions might help in determining if natural therapies can cure the PFS neurological symptoms.
I updated my post above about “crashes” a second time. Some recent experiences of mine along with re-analyzing old information are making me re-evaluate my position on crashes (if not on “recoveries”). Beyond normal variation around a baseline, which is still a valid argument, I now believe a person with PFS can get even worse after a treatment protocol (as measured by core PFS symptoms), something many people have obviously experienced, and I now I think I have experienced myself with Tribulus. I am now leaning towards the idea that raising testosterone levels (although perhaps any change in androgens can cause this when AR are upregulated), while resulting in temporary improvement, may further downregulate whatever is downregulated epigenetically in PFS, resulting in increased androgen insensitivity and consequently even worse PFS (lower libido). This is definitely a crash and it results in getting an even worse form of PFS, most likely permanently. I will write a more detailed post about this elsewhere as no doubt this phenomenon has significance about the etiology of PFS.
Sibelio do you know what is killing you more? And it is not PFS…it is your negative mind.
I read several of your post and I can read your mind they way that you think and act…
If you you don’t change your mind to be optimistic and positive I really doubt that you ever going to recover or improve your condition in any way.
Yes, because we all know wishful thinking can heal anything. Perhaps if you pretend you never took finasteride, you can rid yourself of the cursed symptoms.
This is most definitely me my libido was good despite having PFS until I worked out and my body deteriorated very fast almost over night I would coin this as a crash and worsening of symptoms. Just when you think you couldn’t get any worse it happens.
