I believe we have already discovered the cure for PFS

General Discussion Media & Awareness
#1

Hi all, I think the answer has been all around us, yet we just haven’t put it together yet, but let me do this for you guys.

First of all, I know I’m new to this forum, but I have been lurking for months due to my own issue. I won’t go into detail about it, but please read what I have put together before judging, as it is not based on my words, but actually backed by science, and well, some anecdotal evidence.

First of all,

1.Finasteride upregulates androgen receptors to the point that it may actually become so sensitive to testosterone that it shuts down.

With a greater concentration of receptors, the [penis] becomes more sensitive to testosterone and at a certain point, paradoxically, that sensitivity may shut down.
A group of Italian researchers gave finasteride to rats and noticed that the number of androgen receptors in their brains went up. Moreover, the effects persisted long after the drug had been discontinued.…[T]hey then called in men with PFS, took skin from the penis and found that the density of androgen receptors in men with PFS was about twice that of those without. Now, remember the idea of the testosterone bell curve and damping effects (little testosterone, little growth, more testosterone, more growth, even more testosterone, reduced growth)? I think this is what we are seeing here. With a greater concentration of receptors, the organ becomes more sensitive to testosterone and at a certain point, paradoxically, that sensitivity may shut down.
Straight from here https://www.pfsfoundation.org/what-doctors-scientists-are-saying/

I then discovered this article https://www.longdom.org/open-access/postfinasteride-syndrome-about-2-cases-and-review-of-the-literature-2472-1212-1000170.pdf
**In this article, case 2 a TLDR is that the subject had experienced sexual side effects, penile insensitivity, libido, and ED issues. Androgen receptor was found to have lower sensitive (due to over expression). Subject was treated with anastronzole for 2 weeks, and started seeing improvements **

A DHT measurement was performed, as well as a genetic analysis of CAG triplet repeats of the androgen receptor gene, since polymorphisms at this level could be associated to its lower sensitivity to androgens. DHT resulted in a value of 192 pg/ml (112-955 pg/ml), interpreted as a low DHT for his age. CAG determination resulted in 24 repetitions, interpreted as significant for lower sensitivity of the androgen receptor. after this evaluation, the indicated treatment consisted of HCGu 6000 UI/week, divided into 3 applications of 2000 UI/week, combined with Anastrozole 2 mg/week, divided into 2 intakes of 1 mg/week.

https://forum.propeciahelp.com/t/a-new-theory-about-why-pfs-happens/37720
In another topic in this forum, another user posted a theory of why PFS happens. In @skorpia88’s own words

1.Some guys get PFS while they’re taking propecia without having any kind of crash which precipitates the onset of PFS. This can be explained by the fact that maybe guys who experience this had a high density of androgen receptors to begin with; therefore the usage of propecia upregulating their androgen receptors even more was the proverbial straw that broke the camels back and caused the body to freak out and silence the androgen receptors when it sensed that there were too many receptors

Then according to him:

With that being said, I think that the way to treat PFS involves two things:
1.you must downregulate the androgen receptors
2.you must resensitize the androgen receptors

Another user named DHT, then said in the same post

Yes i was also thinking about restarting high dose finasteride for reducing the impact of over-expressed AR`s but currently i am testing with changing Estrogen / Testosterone / DHT ratio by taking out estrogen my libido came back immediately to my pre pfs hyper-sexual level then it went down a little bit but did not diminished.
I think my reaction was like secession of Finasteride i flooded my body with androgens and it adjusted with reducing sensitivity.
Some of our brothers committed suicide after testing this some of us get better i consider my self to be lucky for now.
> …
> Then i researched and find you and started arimidex that was my first real reversal after 8 years.

TLDR, a user named DHT used arimidex and started seeing a reversal. Arimidex is basically the brand name of Anastrozole, which the doctor from the case study used in combination with DHT therapy to treat the PFS issue of the patient

Basically, for those with penile issues/erectile dysfunction/ low libido, I believe we need to downregulate the androgen receptors and resensitize them. Our normal blood work will not tell us there is an overly expressed androgen receptor. This is why sometimes our bloodwork may appear to be normal, or that testosterone therapy doesn’t work. I think we do need to fix our androgen receptors first

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#2

Haven’t people here done finasteride multiple times and has gotten worse a result? You gambling alot on an untested hypothesis

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#3

It’s more than just androgen receptors

We’re dealing with gene level complexities

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#4

I really respect your topic. It’s good that people are searching.
However, this flaw in androgen receptors has been talked about for more than a decade. In fact, due to the lack of research, until today there are no facts as it occurs.
All of this has already been widely discussed by previous forum members. Now it is necessary to take the next step: real science! I ask moderators not to abandon a cause. Mostly Awor. Please. I don’t I know him, but his knowledge and experience are very important at this point in order not to return to square one.
And about Baylor, what can be done? If they are unable to deliver the study, would it be possible to obtain the data collected for the inheritance? Would it be possible to do a permanent crowdfunding here in the forum so as not to waste time?

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#5

I’ve gotten back on my drug, I get better for about 3 days, then about a month in I just had to tell myself this isn’t working, I felt back to baseline for 2 weeks despite regular dosages and even experimenting with different dosages like once every 3 days, 3 days on-3days off, etc.

I think that the androgen receptors have become dysfunctional on a transcriptional level, and the increased androgen receptor density is our body’s coping mechanism for the androgen receptors not being able to take in testosterone properly.

1 Like
#6

I can only see my self getting worse if I go back on Fin.

If I was to take it again I probably wouldn’t recover from the cognitive side effects.

Taking fin again is like playing with fire.

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#7

No point in getting back on it, you will feel better for a few days max and then return to baseline or maybe even get worse potentially.

Even if your condition improves on Fin it will never be where you want it to be, and it will be up and down as you constantly expose yourself to a potent 5-AR inhibitor.

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#8

I got worse mentally the second time I took propecia (after having pfs for 5 years) sexually stayed the same though

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#9

I’m confused. Why are people talking about restarting fin? Because it seems to me like he’s talking about HCGu and Anastrozole. Is it because of this part:

Because it looks like he didn’t actually do it:

Am I missing something?

#10

Why do you think hcg? I only saw anastrozole mentioned

#11

I would advise everyone here not to use arimidex/anastrozole or any form of AI they are nasty and cause a similar condition as PFS

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#12

He quoted the part in one of the studies where a patient was treated with 6000 UI per week of hcg.

#14

Did you take an AI ? and if so can you describe your experience ? , in my case i have a very low T/E2 ratio , very low t level (around 320 ng/dl ) and an extremely high E2 (50 pg/ml) , my endo prescribed me trt + armidex , altough i’m relucant to folow the protocol but frankly is there any other choice for T/E2 imbalance ? i know balancing homones won’t cure pfs sympthoms on its own but it’s certainly an important piece of the puzzle , without a normal hormon balance you’ll never recover no matter what , i’d like to hear from you any suggestion or alternative to AI + trt , thanks

#15

Arimidex gave me severe bone and spine pain with doses as little as .25mg It didn’t do anything for sexual function and I did this with TRT which also made me feel like shit.

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#16

Everyone and BibFortuna : Why are you guys all talking about getting back on Fin? I quoted a post from another user named “DHT”, who said he was thinking about restarting, but actually didnt, he then said "Then i researched and find you and started arimidex that was my first real reversal after 8 years."

please note I am quoting the user named “DHT” in that post

@PFS25 I did not, but I am quoting the article case study, and some users who did here.

@AaronF the article mentions HCG (DHT therapy) with anastronzole, not TRT. Anastronzole was basically used so that block aromatase, so that testosterone gets converted to DHT instead of estrogen. it was basically used to elevate DHT. It might not have worked in your case if other things are going on.

and to everyone, the problem is different for everyone, I think this solution was specifically for low libido and penile issues. For things like mental fog, etc, it will depend on something different, etc and depending on how your hormones are to begin with. but at least we have a real scientific case study to go off. Please don’t take my word for it, read the article instead.

And of course, always get a second or third opinion on these

1 Like
#17

I think it hinges on your E2 level , if you’re starting with a low / mid-range E2 level and add arimidex then you’ll be left with very little E2 serum which may worsen your sympthoms , did you check your E2 level prior to the administration of arimidex ?

#18

I don’t know if the theory of down-regulating androgen receptors is legit but i’ve just found something interesting , apparently dim acts as an AR antagonist and was used to down-regulate androgen receptor in many clinical studies https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/17047070/

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#19

Well, take it from the doctor who said

[T]hey then called in men with PFS, took skin from the penis and found that the density of androgen receptors in men with PFS was about twice that of those without.
…With a greater concentration of receptors, the organ becomes more sensitive to testosterone and at a certain point, paradoxically, that sensitivity may shut down.

[T]hey then called in men with PFS, took skin from the penis and found that the density of androgen receptors in men with PFS was about twice that of those without.Straight from here https://www.pfsfoundation.org/what-doctors-scientists-are-saying/

Though I don’t know if downregulating it is the same thing as reducing concentration though. I have taken DIM, but not enough to make a difference. Maybe I will add more

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#20

i think dim may help in the case you’ve got a high level E2 but won’t be useful for someone with normal-range E2 level

#21

I was aware of that but I quoted your post so that’s how the formatting turned out. I don’t know if there’s anything else I could’ve done.