Hypothalamus

General Discussion
#1

Has anyone had their hypothalamus checked for abnormalities or damage, post Propecia use. The hypothalamus is a small area at the base of the brain that regulates automatic body processes. Its main function is homeostasis, or maintaining the body’s status quo. It modulates the autonomic nervous system, either directly or indirectly (through pituitary hormones). It also influences growth and basic metabolism. Numerous Propecia users acknowledge, many of the processes regulated by the hypothalamus have been negatively effected.

The hypothalamus makes up less than 17 percent of the brain’s total volume, but it plays a key role in regulating the body’s general level of activity. The hypothalamus helps control the autonomic nervous system, part of the nervous system that regulates such automatic body processes as breathing, blood pressure, and heart rate. The hypothalamus also controls the pituitary gland, the so-called “master gland” of the endocrine (hormone-producing) system.

The hypothalamus is the control center of all autonomic regulatory activities of the body. Certain parts of the hypothalamus regulate body core temperature, breathing, sleep, emotions, energy level, reproductive function, appetite hunger/thirst, urination, sexual drives, blood pressure, heartbeat, metabolism of fats and carbohydrates, and sugar levels in the blood. Through direct attachment to the pituitary gland.

The role of the hypothalamus in awareness of pleasure and pain has been well established in the laboratory. It is thought to be involved in the expression of emotions and in sexual behaviors.

Other parts of the hypothalamus produce hormones called releasing hormones or releasing factors. The releasing hormones travel in the bloodstream to the anterior lobe (front part) of the pituitary gland and control secretion of individual pituitary hormones. The pituitary hormones, in turn, affect many of the endocrine glands. These glands secrete hormones that influence growth, sexual development, and the rate the body changes food into energy and living tissue.

In addition to the releasing hormones, the hypothalamus produces the hormones vasopressin, oxytocin, and somatostatin. These hormones are stored in, and released by, the posterior lobe (rear part) of the pituitary gland. Vasopressin, which is also known as antidiuretic hormone, reduces the amount of water lost from the body in urine. Oxytocin helps regulate the birth process and milk production in females. Somatostatin slows the secretion of growth hormone.

Lastly, the hypothalamus is also the decision making center of the brain. It communicates what it needs to keep going such as thirst, hunger, emotional needs etc. All humans have 2 separate brains, the new brain and the old brain. The new brain or cortex is the area of thoughts, decision making and evaluation. The old brain, of which the hypothalamus is a major part, is the seat of instinctual feelings. The hypothalamus works by sending messages to the new brain (cortex), where decisions are made as to what to do about human needs, especially human needs upon which survival depends.

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#2

Yes, unfortunately most of us have been over this with our doctors ad nauseum. Have you had your bloodwork done? If your LH and FSH are in range then I wouldnt think your problem is upstairs.

#3

that is what I am suspectin from very beginning. Before SP use all of my life, I had very thick brownish urine. I had to drink 12 galsses of water and still my urine was very thick but now, very little water and my urine is plain, like water no color like I am on some diuteric now.

#4

Drax,

This has always been one of my strongest beliefs. That the Hypothalmus & Pituitary are the cause of the problem.

I pray this is not the case however. Just, because it doesn’t seem as though they know enough about it yet. I had an mri done to determine if I had a tumor on the pituitary gland. It came back negative. They simply ruled out the pituitary as the source of the problem because I didn’t have a tumor. That seems way too simplistic to me. Could there not be some other problem that exists between these two.

My theory is that propecia somehow skews the communication that occurs between the hypothalmus/pituitary and our sexual organs. Then when you stop taking propecia the communication is now disturbed and the hypothalmus & pituitary and do not have the ability to communicate properly to the rest of our body. It appears not a tremendous amount is known about the hypothalmus; and the location of it is enough to scare anyone.

I think back to some of the problems in terms of sides that I still have now, happened when I quit. Something in body became disturbed when I quit. It caused a loss of androgen, muscle, loss of energy etc. Do not be mistaken, I did have of the usual sexual sides on the medication.

#5

Difficult to say the problem is pituitary if you dont know what your LH and FSH levels were prior to Fin. And, if your levels are in range after Fin that may indicate it isnt the issue. Sure, its possilbe Fin has damaged the pituitary in some way and its reasonable to assume Fin threw off those levels. I know some have very low LH and FSH after Fin so that could be the case with them. For me I have high levels of LH and FSH but it seems like Im going through testicular failure. So, your on target when you say “signaling” problems is a component. Definately several things going on with us. But epigenetic changes that caused androgen resistance still should be the focus in the absence of any other smoking gun.

#6

Guys, Dr. Jacobs already addressed the hypothalamus-pituitary issue, as well as androgen resistance:

blog.alanjacobsmd.com/alan-jacob … n-men.html

blog.alanjacobsmd.com/alan-jacob … eride.html

Also, we’ve had members here who have been diagnosed with tertiary/central (hypothalamic) failure. In other words, the hypothalamus is not sending GnRH to the pituitary, to tell it to make LH/FSH to send to the testes.

The user “Chris11” on the forum’s doctor diagnosed him with tertiary hypogonadism:

The big question still remains – why does this happen after quitting? We still don’t have answers, and this is what needs to be investigated – what changed in us to cause this to occur, and persist longterm.

#7

Mew, thanks for the links and info.

"Also, we’ve had members here who have been diagnosed with tertiary/central (hypothalamic) failure. In other words, the hypothalamus is not sending GnRH to the pituitary, to tell it to make LH/FSH to send to the testes.

The user “Chris11” on the forum’s doctor diagnosed him with tertiary hypogonadism."

Boston332, Your smoking gun?

Bostonusa2009, I concur, far too simplistic.

A disconnect, however slight, between the hypothalamus and the pituitary, could easily wreak havoc.

Propecia appears to have caused a multitude of damage. Now, has it simultaneously damaged sundry parts of the body, or has it harmed or altered a single part, a control panel, effecting numerous processes.

Certain parts of the hypothalamus regulate

Body core temperature
Breathing
Sleep
Emotions
Energy level
Reproductive function
Appetite hunger/thirst
Urination
Sexual drives
Blood pressure
Heartbeat
Metabolism of fats and
carbohydrates
Sugar levels in the blood

Place an X by your symptoms

X Body core temperature
X (Occasionally shallow)
Breathing
X Sleep
X Emotions
X Energy level
? Reproductive function
X Appetite hunger/thirst
X Urination
X Sexual drives
? Blood pressure
X Heartbeat
? Metabolism of fats and
carbohydrates
? Sugar levels in the blood

Coincidence?

Spstriken, You could be right.

BTW, Yes, had bloodwork years ago when the nightmare began. Everything was in range.

#8

Guys please read this and what do you make of it. English is not my first language plus I am detriorating so fast recently that I can not focuss on any thing. My mental capabilities are shrinking very rapidly.

prohealth.com/me-cfs/blog/bo … id=1130494

I am editing, please read the whole article. Does not it fit 99% to us? I am saying 99% b/c we don’t have extreme thirst, not me at least.

Q: What does MSH do?

A: MSH sits as the central hub of a series of important effects. MSH controls hypothalamic production of melatonin and endorphins. Without MSH, deficiency creates chronic non-restful sleep and chronic increased perception of pain, respectively. MSH deficiency causes chronic fatigue and chronic pain. MSH also controls many protective effects in the skin, gut and mucus membranes of the nose and lung. It also controls the peripheral release of cytokines; when there isn’t enough MSH, the peripheral inflammatory effects are multiplied. MSH also controls pituitary function, with 60% of MSH deficient patients not having enough antidiuretic hormone. These patients will be thirsty all the time, urinate frequently and often will have unusual sensitivity to static electrical shocks. 40% of MSH deficient patients won’t regulate male hormone production and another 40% won’t regulate pro- per control of ACTH and cortisol.

Q: What illnesses are associated with MSH deficiency?

A: Any illness that begins with excessive production of pro- inflammatory cytokines will usually cause MSH deficiency. This is the basic mechanism that underlies damage caused by exposure to biologically produced toxins neurotoxins (biotoxins) made by invertebrate organisms, including fungi (molds), dino- flagellates (ciguatera and Pfiesteria), spirochetes (Lyme disease), blue-green algae (Cylindrospermopsis in Florida and Microcystis all over the world) and bacteria, like anthrax. Nearly 100% of the patients who have Chronic Fatigue Syndrome (CFS) will have MSH deficiency. Do we know that all CFS is due to biotoxins? No.

Q: OK, if something is going on in the body that causes inflammation, like exposure to toxins made by mold in Sick Building Syndrome, and the immune system is cranking out these proteins, cytokines, that are great for our health when they are released in the right amount at the right time, but harmful when too many are made at the wrong time, why don’t we just fix the cytokine response and watch MSH get going again?

A: Good question. We are looking at an incredibly small area in the hypothalamus, one in which there is a real risk of permanent damage from cytokines to blood flow to this pathway. And who is to say that the vital receptors aren’t destroyed by too much attack for too long? Once MSH production is damaged too much, it is too late.

Q: So, if the toxin and cytokine illness goes undiagnosed, or someone says the illness doesn’t exist, like what we have seen for a long time with mold and in Lyme disease, there are going to be people whose MSH supply just dwindles down to nothing.

A: Right. These patients are miserable. They live, but there is no life. They are given Oxycontin or Neurontin or Elavil or Xanax, for example, but nothing really helps. Families are destroyed, careers are ruined, financial resources are poured into tests that mean nothing and therapies that hopefully won’t cause harm, because they never help. Even worse, because MSH levels are rarely measured, many doctors look at the MSH deficient patients as if they are making up the illness, making up the pain to get drugs or looking for disability. And lots of them end up on disability, costing our society not just the unnecessary expense but also costing us the lost productivity.

Q: What is the answer for those people who are MSH deficient? Why don’t we just give them MSH? It should be so simple, like giving insulin to a diabetic who needs it, right?

A: Should be, but it isn’t. The FDA is real particular about giving potent hormones like MSH to just anybody. Just look at cortisone. A little bit is necessary for life, but too much will kill you. MSH can’t be given

so question is should we

#9

People have already tried drugs in this class, ie PT-141 or meltonin II - however i dont beleive people have tested to see if they are deficient.

#10

MSH is made when leptin is able to activate its receptor in the proopio-melanocortin (POMC) pathway. Therefore leptin levels should also be checked to establish a sufficient quantity exist to activate its receptor.

Leptin (a hormone produced inside the body that among other things helps regulate digestion and the feeling of fullness).

You need about 7-8 hours of sleep per night to produce the proper levels of leptin for your body.

#11

A: Any illness that begins with excessive production of pro- inflammatory cytokines will usually cause MSH deficiency…

so we should look for tests for elevated Cytokines and low MSH now. Any body has any idea how and where to find tests?

sps