How Mindless survived Finasteride

Hey guys. For everybody who doesn’t know me (and that should be all of you), I’m Mew’s silent assistant, helping him move the content of this forum from it’s original free phpbb host to propeciahelp.com. I was planning on participating a lot on this forum right after the move, but the depression was a real bitch, keeping me from getting my thoughts together as wanted them to be. I’m going to briefly go over my personal history (what I can remember of it), then look at the steps I took to get to where I am today, 4 years after starting on propecia.

Disclamer: The views and opinions expressed in this story are from the perspective of a Finasteride user taking the drug to remedy male pattern baldness, not prostate cancer. Additionally, there are shameless product plugs in here. Just FYI.

I was a real smart ass in high school; one of those kids who acts like he’s a 4.0 student just because he can. I didn’t hate high school, it was more like I tolerated it, and couldn’t wait to get out and away from school in general. There was one disappointment; a girl I liked that I never had the balls to do anything with. I waited 3 years to get into college, 3 years of consulting, contract programming, watching Anime, and playing MMOs; generally not socializing with people.

I took my first college class in June of 2004 (21 years old). Accelerated Japanese (learning a year’s worth in 10 weeks, 4h/day). It was pretty bad-ass and I actually got really into it. For my first term at college, I was a 4.0 student, but my past wasn’t done with me yet. The patterns I had set for myself in high school were re-emerging as I was taking the classes I didn’t really care for. I would let my focus wander to inconsequential things during calculus lectures, and not really take a lot of the things I should be seriously. I would often times find myself lamenting the disconnection between myself and all of these cute college girls. What was wrong with me? I tried to not let it bother me, but it was always something in the back of my mind, in all of my classes.

In the fall of 2005 (22 years old), I was an easy target for propecia, that wonder drug that promised to take care of that one thing that was holding me back, the cause for all of my life’s problems: my male pattern baldness. Cause you know, anyone who’s anyone has a full head of hair. I can still remember the dermatologist who prescribed it for me. She was so proud that her clinic had been a clinical trial site, and was so happy for me. That feels like a lifetime ago.

You guys know the rest.

I don’t really remember when I started loosing fragments of time. They started as gaps of 15-30 seconds that I’d just space out. Around June of the following year (June 2006) I realized that I had been loosing days to a sensation that I can still only describe as “being like a ghost following my body around through the day.” It was like I was a prisoner in my own mind. I only realized what was happening when I found my mental abilities diminishing past what I considered conscious. I don’t know how I passed any of my classes that term (barely). It was totally fucked up. And the best part was: I hadn’t even made the connection between this state I was in and the medication I was taking.

Early December 2006, I had found a lot of user-contributed articles (forum posts, I think even some from this forum) on severe depression and permanent sexual side effects caused by this drug. I stopped cold turkey on December 12 2006.

I felt better after a few days, for a few weeks even. And that’s when all hell broke loose.

The ghost walking was back, I had powerful bursts of anxiety that would interrupt any normal thought patterns that I might have. I developed uncontrollable twitching in the right side of my body. Everything was falling apart. I couldn’t think about or do anything. I spent 3 weeks in bed because I didn’t want to do anything else. I could go on, but I’d rather not.

To sum it up, visits to doctors, visits to specialists, good days, bad days, good months, bad months. I developed severe insomnia sometime along here, got to experience the closest I’d ever like to come to bi-polar disorder, preferably never again. I would barely get anything out my lectures (yes, I was still taking courses with this shit-storm going on in my head), instead spending most of my time looking up causes for these symptoms. I actually had a list including; micro-strokes, mad-cow disease, uncategorized dimentia, or somehow, an adverse reaction to stopping Finasteride. My GP was great, and thought my theory about Fin causing an imbalance was sound. The specialists didn’t. I joined this Forum on September 13, 2007 (age 24).

I was still fixated on Finasteride when I had my first formal visit to a Psychiatrist on April 2008 (age 25). It didn’t go well. I did figure out just how much I don’t like Psychiatrists, and that I’m never going to willingly visit one in such a capacity again, at least not that gloomy bastard. When he was finally done doing whatever the hell he was doing, he prescribed Escitalopram (Lexapro) and sent me on my merry way, with yet another damn pill to solve all of my problems.

But then I actually did something smart.

I went home and looked it up, and I found the same shit-list of side-effects that I was getting from Finasteride. By coincidence, I talked to a friend of mine about my “ghost walking”, and he said he had the same experience with a drug he had been taking for depression, guess what it’s called? Lexapro! Phew, that was close. I never opened a seal on one of those boxes. But the incident did get me thinking about that mistake I made in a dermatologist’s office 3 years ago, and the similarity with this more recent brush with insanity.

Why did I take that damn little pill that started this mess so long ago? What was so uncontrollably wrong with me that I had to do this to myself? Guys loose their hair all the time, so what? I got into this, focused on the problem that was my hair loss. When I got out of it, my focus was on all of the side-effects (mental, physical, sexual, which can be traced back to severe depression), that were caused by this “treatment”. Focusing on it doesn’t make them go away. Focusing on how you’re going to deal with it does.

Fast forward to now, where I’m actually better than I was getting into this mess. I’m stronger, more social, and more organized, and here’s how I did it.

#1: Develop a sense of hope.

Normally, the order of these steps won’t matter, except for this one. You have to really believe that you’re going to get better, not just say it, but really, truly believe it and live it. The most interesting section on the forums wasn’t the “how I got into this mess” section, it was the “how I got out of this mess” section. You can do it too, and you will if you stick with it.

Set and achieve goals.

This might seem like a simple one, but if you’re one who likes to procrastinate, stop that. Set a simple goal for yourself. Something you can achieve in a day, and do it. That was too hard? Ok, set something you can do in 5 minutes. Increase durrations if you’re succeeding, decrease if you’re not. Get into the habit of moving, and doing things. Stagnation will kill your sense of hope if you let it. At the same time though, you’ll need to…

Be patient.

For most of us, succumbing to the effects of Finasteride didn’t happen overnight. Coming out from under them won’t happen overnight either. Your body and mind is one of the most complex interdependent systems we’re exposed to during the day. It’ll take a while for it to get back into balance after dealing with Fin. In my case, ~3 years after quitting. This should go even faster if you…

Get in shape.

I don’t normally buy things advertised on infommercials, but there’s just something about Tony Horton and P90X that makes you want to believe in it. I’m about a third of the way through my first cycle (it took me 3 tries to get here). It totally kicks my ass, and I’m nowhere near as proficient as his assistants are in the videos, but I’m still in the best shape of my life (granted I have a ways to go still). For those of you that were/are body builders, I have a completely new appreciation for the discipline required to do what you do.

Get a social life.

The propeciahelp forums can get pretty gloomy at times. World of Warcraft is full of noobtards. John Gabriel’s Greater Internet Fuckwad Theory rules the Internets. Go outside and talk to real people. I make 10 new friends a week at college and I’m barely even trying. If you really want to go all out, learn pickup.

Get a hobby.

I got into photography in 2004. Between 2004 and summer 2009, I’ve taken 6500 photos. Between summer 2009 and fall 2009 I’ve taken 6500 photos. Find something you like doing and do it. You don’t even have to do it well, just do what you love. I’ve also gotten into piano, and I’m going to be getting into dancing. See any connections with the above two points?

Get over it.

At some point I realized that my behavior concerning these symptoms was likely more of a contribution to my state than Finasteride withdraw was. Fuck that. I’m not waiting for a doctor to come and cure me, getting out of this hole is my own responsibility.

I hope the perspective helps.

No sexual or physical sides then? Well done on recovery, you probably had problems from quitting cold turkey.

you forget to mention the right nutrion… thats the MOST important part of recovery in general.

You’ve got it about getting out and living your life and getting fit. Just out of curiosity what do you mean by “learn pickup”?

I’ve been busting my ass at the gym for the last 10 months and had to start really slow but really feel this and good nutrition have been the two biggest postitives in my life, this and spending time with a woman, any woman, any capacity.

I think he means “pick-up” as in becoming or studying to be a pick up artist.

yep :stuck_out_tongue:

I did develop some sexual side effects, mostly having to do with sensitivity, and those have mostly resolved.

Nutrition was another thing I didn’t mention. Nothing exotic, just eating right, and getting rid of the junk (This is a part of P90X, I didn’t even think about it).

Since I’m in college, the mental side-effects were the big killer for me. I could have gone with anti-depressants and keep that feedback-loop going, or do what I did and just get above it all. That was hard, but I’d take the same route out if I got into that mess again.

Bro, the mental side effects are the killer for everyone, believe me. You don’t realize how powerful being able to think clearly is until it is taken away from you.

That was my biggest complaint through the worst of it, the mental sides and the fog. To be able to think again is to me a godsend. I am glad everyday when I wake up now. It takes something like this to make you realize how bad life can really be…

How do you learn to pickup? I’m terrible at this…

There is a whole underground group that is dedicated to this type of thing. I’ve read several books on the topic and it is very interesting to say the least. It really is all about getting a guy to be his very best and get over all kinds of things like approach anxiety, what to say, ways to act, etc.

Just do a search for pick up and you’ll get more then enough info on the topic.

QFT. I could harp something along the lines of, “had I known”, but then again, you’re right, we’re all the same there.

Haha, yeah. There are a few different schools of thought when it comes to pickup. I’ve been studying natural, which is an absolute blast. You basically just clear your mind, walk up to the hottest girl you see and start a conversation. Who knows where it’ll end up, and who cares as long as you’re both having fun.

I have so much to say on this topic, but I don’t want to hijack my own thread. Do read up on it if you’re interested, and do actually try stuff. DO NOT get attached to the outcomes. Pickup is 90% mental, and chances are against your perfect success the first time out. If When you fail, get up, dust yourself off and try again. The faster you’re able to do that, the faster you’ll figure it out.

PM me if you want more specifics.

Would you compare this ghost walking to derealization? We’re you confused at all?