How I believe I cured my PFS

[Ozeph]

@Milando97

mucuna pruriens

I try to take only natural stuff.

[Milando97]

ok good me too

[slick1]

@pvdl

No, I said that positive reviews of herbs can be explained by either placebo, the user conflating correlation with causation or commercial (fraudulent) objectives.

The anecdotal evidence is congruent with the above conclusion, not with the conclusion that herbs move the needle re PFS.

I can claim the same thing about PFS. You are just getting older and your erection is getting weaker every year and mental problems is just the consequnce of you having ED and losing your confidence. Finasteride has nothing to do with your condition, it is just explained by nocebo effect plus other natural causes that occurred at the time you were taking FIN and you falsely linked your problems to the drug.

[Milando97]

are you kidding? hope so because these claims drive me nuts. i cant even read a fucking book now and that has nothing to do with my age (21 lol)

[slick1]

PVDL just claiming that herbs/supplements is not the reason of someone getting cured or getting better. I gave him the same analogy about PFS.

[pvdl]

False analogy. The evidence clearly shows that the herbal nonsense was a scam initiated by cdnuts. It also clearly shows that the overwhelming majority had no permanent improvement. Some initially made wild claims about their improvement which they later had to correct, when the supposed improvement vanished. Some claimed improvement but little time had passed since they stopped finasteride (=natural improvement likely).

Re PFS we have clear anecdotal evidence and personal experience that it is real. Also we have physical symptoms that are hard to explain with placebo, causation/correlation stuff like penile shrinkage, facial wasting, muscle wasting, reduced semen volume etc.

If the anecdotal evidence pro herbs was as compelling as the anecdotal evidence pro PFS on this forum I would have a different assessment re herbs. However anecdotal evidence re herbs indicates that we are dealing with placebo, wishful thinking getting causation and correlation mixed up and with people spreading false information due to fraudulent/ commercial motivations.

@slick1

I can claim the same thing about PFS. You are just getting older and your erection is getting weaker every year and mental problems is just the consequnce of you having ED and losing your confidence. Finasteride has nothing to do with your condition, it is just explained by nocebo effect plus other natural causes that occurred at the time you were taking FIN and you falsely linked your problems to the drug.

[Milando97]

thank you @pvdl i cant hear this bs bout cdnuts protocol any longer…

[Mcbbould]

@pvdl

penile shrinkage, facial wasting, muscle wasting, reduced semen volume etc.

Just for arguments sake, do you have before and after measurements to confirm these changes? How much length have you lost in your penis?

I’ve seen very normal people lose musscle, go from fat to skinny (and vice versa) - how do you know it’s fins fault? When you get older these changes happen as well…

[slick1]

@pvdl

False analogy. The evidence clearly shows that the herbal nonsense was a scam initiated by cdnuts. It also clearly shows that the overwhelming majority had no permanent improvement. Some initially made wild claims about their improvement which they later had to correct, when the supposed improvement vanished. Some claimed improvement but little time had passed since they stopped finasteride (=natural improvement likely).

Re PFS we have clear anecdotal evidence and personal experience that it is real. Also we have physical symptoms that are hard to explain with placebo, causation/correlation stuff like penile shrinkage, facial wasting, muscle wasting, reduced semen volume etc.

I can agree on cdnuts, but not on supplements/herbs in general. If there would be such thing as a natural improvement you wouldn’t be on this forum anymore. You would be naturally cured already. But weirdly I don’t see people massively getting cured naturally ? And from my personal experience, when I abstained myself from any substances for months, I stayed where I was, without any slightest sign of getting better.

Your facts about anecdotal evidence, are not convincing at all. You can’t prove it’s not natural causes the root of your problem, maybe you got stressed, maybe you had ongoing chronic condition that got worse, maybe you ate a rotten carrot infested with vicious microbes.

What I am saying, people who got better right after taking herbs, are no different from people who got worse right after taking fin.

And this.

@Mcbbould

I’ve seen very normal people lose musscle, go from fat to skinny (and vice versa) - how do you know it’s fins fault? When you get older these changes happen as well…

[pvdl]

@slick1

Your facts about anecdotal evidence, are not convincing at all. You can’t prove it’s not natural causes the root of your problem, maybe you got stressed, maybe you had ongoing chronic condition that got worse, maybe you ate a rotten carrot infested with vicious microbes.

Only in the strange world of PFS does a PFS sufferer argue that anecdotal evidence for PFS is as weak as herbs being a cure for it. Also you are shooting yourself in the foot: If anecdotal evidence for PFS is weak not convincing, anecdotal evidence for herbs being a cure to PFS is per definition even weaker.

Its entirely logical to claim that anecdotal evidence re PFS is very strong while anecdotal evidence for herbs being a cure is very weak. But I wont repeat what I said above. Its just how I interpret the data on this forum.

[slick1]

@pvdl

Only in the strange world of PFS does a PFS sufferer argue that anecdotal evidence for PFS is as weak as herbs being a cure for it. Also you are shooting yourself in the foot: If anecdotal evidence for PFS is weak not convincing, anecdotal evidence for herbs being a cure to PFS is per definition even weaker.

I see its hard for you to understand that I intentionally applied YOUR logic for PFS . And in this case it should work either both ways. You are shouting at every corner that herbs is placebo, but i bet you wouldn’t like it if a doctor will tell you there is no such thing as PFS and its in your head. There is the same amount of anecdotal evidence for herbs other meds that helped people.

[pvdl]

@slick1

I see its hard for you to understand that I intentionally applied YOUR logic for PFS .

I understood your analogy, I just dont think it applies. I dont believe the anecdotal evidence pro herbs goes beyond what you would expect with causation/correlation confusion, placebo, fraudulent motivations and wishful thinking. Same cant be said for (physical symptoms) re PFS.

[hopeless94]

maca+tribulus helped me too, better erections and orgasms but the improvement didnt last long, it maybe has to be cycled.

[Milando97]

dont cycle anything. im here because i cycled propecia

[Cooper]

But it is “propecia”. Problem is not about the cycle only istelf. Its the substance man.

[Milando97]

yeah but cycling triggered it

[hopeless94]

Hm i dont know, I think that you have to cycle certain supplements that help since you get tolerant to it at some point, so you just tsake a break. Similiar to caffeine.

[Invictus]

I did countless hormone/supplements cycles over the last 3 years and my baseline only got better (some small crashes too but in the end I only got better).

In my opinion cycling is basically the only thing that could actually trigger epigenetic changes/fix the AR.

If you keep your DHT 100% stable all the time nothing will happen for most guys.

[Greek]

That’s interesting @Invictus , can you tell us where you were and where you are now?

[hopeless94]

Problem is that you no one knows if your interventions really improved you or your body just healed natrually.