Hormone test results help needed

3 weeks after propecia test results
Testosterone, Total 691.0, 132.0 - 813.0 ng/dL
Cholesterol 133 0 - 200 mg/dL
Triglycerides 49 0 - 150 mg/dL
HDL 48.0 40.0 - 60.0 mg/dL
Direct LDL 65.6 0.0 - 130.0 mg/dL
Chol/HDL Ratio 3 0 - 5 %
Thyroid Stimulating Hormone 1.13 0.46 - 4.68 uIU/mL
Vitamin D, 25 Hydroxy 22.80 30.0 - 150.0 ng/ml

8 months after propecia
Prolactin 19.6 ng/mL
Prolactin Reference Ranges are as follows:
Male: 3.7-17.9 ng/mL
Normal Female(non-pregnant): 3.0-18.6 ng/mL
Estradiol, Urine 40 0 - 56 pg/mL
Estrogens, Total 112 <136 pg/mL
Estrone 72 <80 pg/mL
Thyroid Stimulating Hormone 1.29 0.46 - 4.68 uIU/mL
Testosterone, Free 9.3, 5.0 - 40.0 pg/mL
Testosterone, Total 375.0, 332 - 896 ng/dL

Should i see an endocrinologist? my doctor says my hormones are fine, i asked him for a referral to an endocrinologist but it will cost me 500$.
i felt worse 3 weeks after propecia but side effects still bother me. my biggest issues are low sex drive and lack of energy.
are my blood tests unusual?

Roll those papers together, and smack your doctor in the head with it.

Hell yeah, your blood tests shows that you have developed secondary hypogonadism. Your total testosterone level dropped from 691 ng/dl to 375 ng/dl! Your free testosterone level is low as well. Your estradiol level is high, and your prolactin level is above the normal range - which further supports that you’re dealing with estrogen dominance.

Ask your GP to prescribe Proviron (mesterolone), 25 mg a day.

Do a blood test before you begin treatment. Check LH, FSH, testosterone, estradiol, prolactin and SHBG. I recommend that you check DHT and androstanediol glucuronide (3a-diol-g) as well. Do another blood test immediately when you’re feeling normal, so you have something to compare the values with. This is very important, as it will be considered as evidence if you do recover! Take 25 mg (one pill) once a day, before bed. No more, no less. Gauge efficacy by morning erections. Your testosterone/estradiol ratio is optimal when you get a solid morning erection. Quit the treatment if you don’t notice any changes within 2 weeks. However, I bet that you’ll notice improvements within a week. No one has tested the protocol exactly like this yet. If I could start the treatment all over again, this would be it. Remember to share your experience with us, if you decide to do this.

Oh, one last thing; Merck states the the side effects from Propecia are supposed to subside within 2 weeks.
If you haven’t recovered within 3 weeks after quitting the drug, I strongly recommend that you begin treatment.
Product Information Proviron.pdf (38.1 KB)

They used dosages that were 4 - 6 times higher, and it only suppressed the levels by 25% if they were above the normal range.

The effect of mesterolone on sperm count, on serum follicle stimulating hormone, luteinizing hormone, plasma testosterone and outcome in idiopathic oligospermic men.

Enden, thanks for posting your TRT protocol elsewhere and the proviron concept.

It’s been quite a while since I have even paid attention to hormones, having tried a version of TRT for a year (a few years back). I was on clomid + some testim gel + arimidex, and balancing T and E proved to be impossible. I got sick of it and quit by the end of 2010.

I did have brief (less than 1 week) period of seemingly imminent full recovery where fantasy was producing erections, hugging my girl at the time got me sprung (just like the old days of hyper-arousal). I felt like a certain % of my old self, like full recovery was around the corner. And at this time, my T to E was something like 771 to 20 if I remember correctly, with E2 rising on the next test. At the time, I thought maybe it was a simple T to E thing, but as I’ve posted before, there were many, many other variables going on. And I could never balance T and E no matter how I adjusted my meds. So I’m unsure what gave me that feeling, the closest of feeling near normal I’ve ever felt during this entire 5 year PFS deal.

Can you explain how you came to believe that the Proviron Protocol would work? Are there any PFS cases that you know of where it worked? I do see you’ve addressed a couple of cases where PFS guys flirted with it, but I could have sworn there were more people messing around with it – I don’t recall, could be wrong. Also, can you, yourself not transition from your TRT to Proviron?

Thanks

I can’t remember exactly when, but I discovered that the serious side effects from Propecia came from excessive amounts of estradiol. Finasteride isn’t supposed to do anything else than lower the DHT level by around 70%, and increase the total testosterone- and estradiol level by around 10%. However, DHT is a potent estradiol antagonist, and in some cases, the estradiol level gets out of control. This causes a chain reaction, and people end up with a wrecked endocrine system. I believe that estrogen dominance as a consequence of androgen deprivation, is the root cause. Not everyone develops secondary hypogonadism, but I believe that everyone here suffers from estrogen dominance, and that everything else - like problems with adrenal and thyroid hormones - are just a natural consequence. The way I, and two other people responded to low doses of Proviron, and the results from all the other experiments that I have conducted on myself since then, suggest that I’m right. I know more people have tried Proviron, but I suspect that they used too much. The ratio between androgens and estrogens is critical.

I currently don’t have access to Proviron, but I am treating myself with an alternative, and by the same principle. The transition isn’t that easy when you have been on TRT for years, because exogenous testosterone causes the testicles to atrophy. I’ve attempted to restart the system several times this year, but I’ve been forced to abort. Last time, I ended up in some sort of wave pattern, where my testicles grew and shrunk, while symptoms improved and got worse. It was like the body was tying to increase the production of testosterone, but couldn’t because something is off balance. I suspect that it’s because of DHT and 3a-DIOL deficiency. The reason I’m doing this, is because natural testosterone production with its rhythm, feels better than exogenous testosterone.

Btw, I have also found independent studies which shows that finasteride decreases the free testosterone level, and messes around with neurohormones - especially allopregnanolone, in everyone who’s using the drug! There is no doubt that the drug hasn’t been studied properly before it got approved by the FDA. I see the reduction in free testosterone as a natural consequence of the reduction in the DHT level, as DHT has stronger affinity for SHBG, and testosterone is next in line. I’m not sure why it interferes with neurohormones, because it’s a 5AR Type 2 inhibitor only - and those neurohormones are created by 5AR Type 1 only - but I have two hypotheses. 1) The levels decreases as a natural consequence to the reduction in the DHT level. Androgens, and especially DHT stimulates the brain significantly. 2) Testosterone binds to 5AR Type 1 as well, which creates DHT. Blocking the 5AR Type 2 enzymes will put more pressure on the 5AR Type 1 enzymes. We have a lot more testosterone than other hormones like progesterone, which is a precursor to allopregnanolone - and the affinity for the 5AR Type 1 enzymes may be stronger. In other words, precursors to neurohormones may get down prioritized.

Estrogen dominance makes a whole lot of sense. My blood and siliva tests show this. Free estrogens are over range when free androgens are just mid range. This explains temp recoveries.

The thing is, I have tried non aromatizing hormones like trenbolone and they seem to not help I also tried equipoise.

I kind of feel like our aromataze enzyme has been upregulated? Or pheraps 5ar downregulated? Who knows…

Im goign to try some estrogen cream to see if eveything gets worse.