High DHT Levels

General Discussion
#1

Hi Guys,

I apologize if I have missed discussions about this, but has there been a trend with guys on this forum of high DHT levels? I read one post my monuku about it, but I no other ones. Personally, my DHT levels are extremely high. Does that suggest that I am not converting DHT into something else? 5AR2? And does that effect the Adiol G?

Dr. Crisler can not work out why I have such high DHT. He calls it hyper metabolizing, and says it can lead to symtpoms of tiredness, etc, but I was wondering if there is something more specifically wrong in the conversion of DHT into 5AR2.

PPS

#2

DHt doesn’t convert into 5AR2, 5AR2 converts Testosterone into DHT.

Do some basic research on Finasteride, 5AR and DHT please so you understand how the mechanisms work.

As for your question, no idea. I also had a high level of DHT when tested in 2007 after 3 years off. DHT can also come from 5AR1, so perhaps that may be what is occuring if 5AR2 is no longer active – increased 5AR1 activity to compensate. However, this is just a thought (permanent 5AR2 deficiency/inactivation), and by no means proven.

#3

I believe Mew is right. If if helps, I was on Avodart and my DHT is next to nothing - 8 on a scale of 25-54. Since I inhibited both types, it would make sense that some Propecia sufferers might have high DHT from 5AR1 activity.

#4

and this could be the precise reason why adding exogenous DHT in a form of Andracitim or DHT Enthatate could be the key for recovery. Since our 5 AR II is not working properly, and most of our DHT is from 5 AR I… the only way we can get the necessary DHT in the proper places that we are lacking is from a exogenous source.

#5

How many people have actually tried Andractim? And of those who have do we have any idea of their DHT levels before they did?

#6

That is an assumption.

Nobody has tested genital skin fibroblast cultures to determine 5AR2 ENZYME activity within the skin. Until that happens, we won’t know for sure if 5AR2 is permanently reduced/deactivated/whatever. Unfortunately this is a very difficult test to get done, often only in research laboratories, but I believe it is possible to order by endocrinologists in special cases to test for the genetic syndrome of 5AR2 deficiency.

Testing for 5AR2 GENE expression can be done, again to test for 5AR2 deficiency: ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/sites/GeneT … =genetests

#7

Mew…

Is “sufferer2001recovered2009” the only person who has tried the Andractim that you know of?

I would be very interested to know his DHT levels before he tried it. If they were normal and then he used it and it worked, that would say a lot.

#8

It would be interesting to see the guys who have high DHT levels get their Adiol G results tested.

Because in theory high DHT should lead to high Adiol G. However if this is not the case then it demonstrates some sort of abnormality in this system, doesn’t it?

It would probably be a good thing for anyone getting their Adiol G tested to test their DHT and testosterone at the same time, to get a wider scope of what’s happening.

1 Like
#9

Pre treatment my DHT was 2.6 on a scale (1 to 2.6).
My T was 32 on a scale (9 to 33)

On 250mg T per week (very supraphysiological), my Adiol G was 394 on a scale (900 to 1500)
I assume my serum DHT on 250mg T was very high indeed.

I believe these figures indicate poor Type II 5 alpha reductase activity.
I have an excellent response to DHT, whenever I take it, and within minutes.

I hope this helps.

JN

#10

This is great JN…

Doctors aren’t looking into this matter seriously…They think HIGH DHT means HIGH DHT. They are not looking deeper at the root cause which is 5 AR II Activity(Type II DHT).

Most of our DHT we are processing is only type I now thanks to finasteride manipulating our 5 AR II recepter… Doctors need to understand this so they can get a permit in order to legally treat us with DHT injection/or gel.

#11

JN,

How did you know to take DHT when your levels of DHT were seemingly so high? Did you have a theory based on your low Adiol G relative to high DHT?

Also, can you talk about where to get it, how to administer it, how often, etc.

Do you think this is something you are going to have to do for life?

Also, has it had any effect on your libido, or just the erections?

And lastly, how long have you been taking it?

If this was the reason, it would make sense as to why TRT doesn’t work, why the docs have no way of figuring out what’s going on, etc, etc, etc.

Very interesting, and definitely worth a try.

PPS

#12

and what was your Estradiol and prolactin etc.

sps

#13

Does it matter for DHT activity where it was produced, as long as it’s in the bloodstream?

#14

3pm. Of course it does.

Type 1 predominates in serum, hence normal/high levels seen in us sufferers.
Type 2 predominates in scalp, prostate, genitalia etc, INTRACELLULARLY. Hence Adiol G measurement requirment.

It seems that DHT produced in bloodstream is not metabolised into Adiol G, as Mew’s screenshot indicated.

Surely you understand the relevance of Adiol G now? An abnormal serum DHT to Adiol G ratio would give a reasonably good clue as to the functioning of individual reductase enzymes.

JN

#15

JN,

I am on board. I just ordered Andractim from AllSaints clinic. Should be here in 10-14 days.

I think I figured out a way to get my Adiol G tested. I just got a new PCP. She is a very nice lady and I’m sure I can convince her to run the lab for me. I will wait until early next week to do that. I have been taking Wellbutrin for the past three weeks…it hasn’t done a thing. I am going to slowly decrease my dose over the next week and try and be off it before I get my labs done. I should have the results in a few weeks.

I am also taking DHEA cream which is making my serum DHT go crazy. At one point it was 3 times the normal range. I was on 150 mgs per day, but I have reduced it to 100mgs. I would like to stop it all together, but I want to do that slowly. Likely when I get my labs done, I will still be on the 100mgs and my serum DHT will be very high.

I will make sure I get my blood tests done before I take the Andractim. It will be very interesting if my Adiol G levels come back low because as I said my DHT is typically very high so my Adiol G should also be high.

I have a question about Andractim though. I presume that like any topical the absorption rate is different for everyone? With DHEA, I have to take A LOT more than most people because it doesn’t absorb well with me. I remember with Test gel, it absorbed just fine. I guess it varies on the person, and even within the person depending on the type of topical. Also, surely if you take enough topically, it should be systemically absorbed, no? So why is IM so much better? Is DHT topical well know for not absorbing as well as say Test gel?

Lastly, I work at a biotech company in the U.S.A. Is there any way I could get someone to make DHT Hepatonate for me since we are involved in medical research? What will I need in order to get it made? Does it have to go through a university or something? I know we have accounts with chemical suppliers like Sigma Aldrich. It would be better to get it done in the U.S.A than China if that is at all possible, but your man in China sounds definitely good enough.

Anyway, thanks JN, your consistent energy with all this is awesome.

PPS

#16

sorry if this is a naive question, but -

If you work at a biotech company, why do you not inquire if there is any way to raise adiol-g more directly then through DHT? Perhaps the enzyme which converts dht to adiolg?

#17

I will, but we are a small company and we work in a very different disease area…the guys here don’t know much about this stuff, and I work on the business side of things. Believe me though, I’m trying. I have not been back to the forum for a while and I only knew about this theory in the past few days.

#18

Good posts pps. You clearly are board. Good stuff.

I trust my Chinese manufacturer. Very honest. I have tried Sigma Aldrich in Australia and they referred me to Sigma Pharmaceuticals and they stated they certainly do not produce DHT Hept for individual patients.

I think they referred to it as a research chemical, laboratory standard only. I managed to get DHT Heptanoate made up in China.
If you order the powder, it will be an illegal supply in USA unless you can find a doctor who writes prescriptions.

As a doctor myself, I am considering treating men with finasteride issues. I have always been one to break away from the mould. However, I need to see if DHT Hept works first, and is safe.
pps, please contact me for contact details. I also have a list of excellent ‘homebrewing’ information. Easy.

Best Wishes

JN

#19

Ok, just to clarify: since we know 30% of DHT comes from type 1, only 30% is in serum? Interesting…

#20

I have the DHT (Dihydrosterone) test is highest, Insane!
immagine

DHT Insane! WTF?