Henchman's Story

Hi Orthogs,

I really don’t know, it’s hard to say that any one thing helped me as I really just don’t know if anything is actually helping. The only thing that I have changed lately in the weeks leading up to this latest recovery swing is moving back to normal diet and endurance training instead of HIIT and strength training. Also increased amount and consistency of exercise as I was a little slacking prior. Also having sex more often? But that is only because I have libido more often, so take that for what it’s worth.

I can say what MAY have helped me and at the very least has helped me cope on my way to getting better. This probably doesn’t help long-term sufferers, but may help those starting out. For me exercise and bring outdoors in the sun with family has always formed the cornerstone of my recovery. Lowering stress as much as possible. Adding strict routine to my life every day. When I’m at my worst, I just need to go through the motions and I feel this helps tremendously. Also helps with lowering stress I think. End of the day I do something “enjoyable” whether I enjoy it or not. Just something small, a video game or watching a comedy with my wife, reading one chapter in a book. I do this every day despite whether or not my anhedonia allows me satisfaction or interest in it. Maybe this helps.

This morning my sleep was not that great again, but not bad (6-7 broken) and I don’t feel as good as yesterday, but I still feel much better than baseline. I will absolutely take this as a new baseline if that’s what it is. I’m actually looking forward to drinking my decaf, watching a short show and going for a run before my kids are up, so that’s what I’m gonna do.

End of month update. Still doing MUCH better in March. My mornings have gone from typical PFS horror show to very manageable mild anxiety and depression. I still have ups abs downs, but my downs are now manageable. Whereas before my lows were inhumanly bad (anhedonia, depression, anxiety), I’m to the point where I now feel like I have “normal” depression symptoms and an antidepressant might actually help me. That being said, I am not going to take anything and continue to focus on active and healthy lifestyle to combat these symptoms. In the spirit of keeping this positive, some notable positives this month:

  • Laughed so hard that I cried the other night.
  • I no longer fear sleep or the mornings
  • Body odor is back….? I smell awful! Hooray!
  • Sex 11 times so far this month.
  • Can suddenly take naps again
  • Slept (actual sleep) with my wife 2 nights this month! Makes my sleep a little worse, but worth it.
  • Only had what I would consider one “bad” day this whole month! All days flat or good.

Here’s the goals I hit or progress towards.

Sleep:

  • sleep at least 6 hours straight EVERY night (rarely can hit this mark, but basically never 7 or 8 straight)
  • Able to take naps without messing up sleep (can take naps again sometimes, but unsure whether it has an effect on nighttime sleep)
  • Able to take naps ANYWHERE like before (I napped on a plane today! But this is still not met)

Summary: Sleep greatly improved all around and always restorative. Still a lot of room to improve.

Sex:

  • Ability to consistently want/have sex once per week unassisted (I think this is met)
  • Twice a week ( I think also met)
  • 3 per week (Not consistent enough to say met)
  • Pre-fin (1-2 per day)

Current Status: Baseline libido level is up, but not always enough for me to want sex consistently. It is enough for me to enjoy sex periodically again on a regular basis.

Diet:

Current Status: All goals met! It’s so good to enjoy food again!

Emotions/Mood/Anxiety:

  • No more bad anhedonia days (5 or below) - (Only one day this month!)
  • No more flat days (not met, but progress!)
  • Able to always look forward to and want to play/interact with my kids again. (Met, but not with same intensity as before)
  • To always feel the utter joy their laughter used to give me like before. (Almost met but not with same intensity)
  • Able to consistently enjoy comedic TV shows again (Met, in the evenings!!)
  • Able to consistently enjoy all the shows I used to love (including dark and stressful shows) - (can watch these again now without freaking out but not always)
  • Able to always enjoy video games (mostly met in evenings but with less intensity)
  • Able to relax enough to enjoy hot baths like before (met sometimes)

Current status: More progress here. I can almost always enjoy some basic things again. Interest level and drive is still mostly very low but improving. Some days where I get to 90% or so on occasion even though it’s rare.

Overall goal:

  • To never have to think about rating my mood or my erections or have to ever think about PFS ever again!

Current status: I’ve mostly stopped visiting the forum except to update. I think that’s a start considering how much time I used to spend here. I have started to often forget to update my log whereas before I was very strict about it. I think this is also a good sign that things are going so well sometimes I forget about PFS. It has basically dominated every waking moment of my thoughts up until this month. So progress!

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Wanted to drop in quickly to say I’m currently recovered 100% in all areas except sleep. Everything is here, mentally, full libido, motivation, anger/aggression, the works! I’ve been very close the past two days and it seems to have clicked into place today. I’ve had this happen before so I don’t want to get my hopes up too high but the consistent sustained gains I’ve gotten since the beginning of March (and really the beginning of February) have been astounding. In January I still had trouble leaving the house. Now I’m recovered. Ridiculous.

Feels stable, but we’ll see how long it lasts.

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I was doing so well for so long, and the short stint at 100% was nice, but my old friend depression is back again. It’s weird as significant depression has largely left me alone for a while and I was mainly dealing with anxiety, anhedonia, and libido. Always the downswings associated with my biggest upswings and usually the same the other way around as well.

I still feel like my body is fighting towards normal as some other things have normalized the past few weeks. I am almost certain I will be dealing with ups and downs for a long time to come, but I do believe I will continue to recover slowly from what I’ve seen so far. Some things I’ve noted:

  • Body odor has come and gone before throughout, but now it seems here to stay
  • the dry skin on my hands seems to suddenly have almost completely resolved. On my feet there is only one small spot on the side of my right big toe that remains. Cracks on Left foot and heels have resolved.
  • I have motor tics where I used to, throughout the day, flip my fingers in a certain way. I did not even realize that was gone until it came back this past few weeks.
  • likewise, my mild Tourette’s is back full force.
  • Appetite has been up and down and continues to be, but seems overall improved.

So despite the downswing, some remnants of normality remain even if they can’t be measured in how good I feel. I’m not doing great anymore, but I’m still doing ok.

I averaged out my logs for anxiety, libido and anhedonia for Jan, Feb, and Mar to see if there is any measurable improvements and there was notable results. Now of course these ratings are subjective, but even if I just think I feel better then does it really matter? If the problem is in my brain then perceived improvements to me are just as good as real ones.

January morning anxiety average: 6
February: 6.39
March: 7.1

January morning anhedonia average: 5.36
February: 5.8
March: 6.61

January evening anxiety average: 8.1
February: 8.48
March: 8.68

January evening Anhedonia average: 7.26
February: 7.77
March: 8.35

Here’s hoping April turns out even better. I’ll be back at end of month with another update. Stay strong everyone.

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Just wanted to drop in as I saw something that made me think of PFS. In my neighborhood someone wrote something on the sidewalk.

“When life hands you lemons, eat the lemons straight up”.

My posts so far have been mostly about trying to make lemonade out of PFS, but really what this disease is mostly about is just eating the fucking lemons straight. One of the most inspiring stories to me is Cap’s, because it was obvious he was doing as badly as I feel most of the time and he recovered (mentally). I’ve been keeping it positive but maybe too positive. I was doing better, but I’ve now had to move my office into the family room again as being in my office alone makes me anxious, I can barely leave the house again, life in general is a struggle.

I am eating these fucking lemons though and will get through it. One of these days I’ll be pissing lemonade.

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Do you have tinnitus? Mine is so weird. In daily life ı dont have it but when ı lie down to sleep it comes… Really annoying.

Nope, I don’t have tinnitus.

End of month update. After a good March and short stay at 100%, April has been pretty bad for me. I can barely make it through each day and leaving the house is a struggle along with pretty much everything else in my life. However I still do often get some relief in the evenings only. However, it seems to now be much later in the evening for some reason, sometimes I don’t feel significant relief until 8-9PM. Every day is pretty much about surviving until my evening upswing. I am thankful for the evenings though. I know many don’t even get that. Some things are definitely changing though. I am still seeing some more things return to normal even though I still feel like shit, with horrible anxiety, depression, and mostly complete anhedonia. Last 6 days though I’ve started to see an upward trend again. Not getting my hopes up, but just enjoying whatever improvements I’m given.

  • body odor is fluctuating again but present more often than not.
  • Physical tics that I forgot I had are continuously returning and seem to be sticking.
  • Tourette’s feeling more normal.
  • Something about my mental state feels more normal despite the fact I am 100% not normal, very hard to explain.

Here’s the goals I hit or progress towards.

Sleep:

Summary: Sleep continues to improve actually very slowly. I typically get a minimum of 6 hours now but never straight. I wait up and go right back to sleep at least once in the night. My best nights are 7 hours with one wake up or 8 hours with 2 or more wake-ups.

Sex:

  • Greatly improved here also actually. It seems I can now have sex unassisted whenever I want and I would say ok average this is 10-15 times a month. My libido will return to some level for a few days then go away for a week. Erections are not as responsive or hard as normal, but plenty good enough and orgasm quality is pretty normal
    Mostly. Nocturnals are mostly there and had a morning erection today for first time in a LONG time, only 50% or so but it was there.

Diet:

Current Status: All goals met! It’s so good to enjoy food again! Appetite fluctuates and I REALLY enjoy food again on occasion.

Emotions/Mood/Anxiety:

  • Shitty month. Anxiety is fucking horrible. Anhedonia is bad. However, this past week mornings are starting to be bare-able again. Evenings are ok and occasionally good, but only last a few hours at most. Can enjoy some shows and video games to a basic extent. Enjoy exercising and being outdoors. Enjoy playing with my kids on a basic level. Emotions severely blunted.

Overall goal:

  • To never have to think about rating my mood or my erections or have to ever think about PFS ever again!

Current status: I’m back to thinking about this shit every minute of every day. Fuck.

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All,

Some of you may have seen but I am doing very badly at the moment. I inadvertently crashed on a small amount of Creatine in a smoothie. I estimate around 0.5g was all it took. I am not 100% back at where I started but very close. I have lost almost everything I gained. I now realized how wonderfully well I was doing despite the tone of my above update. I really had it all again and carelessly threw it away.

I was recovering, it is possible. I had a happy life again although reduced capacity. I enjoyed every evening with my family. I looked forward to my daily runs and walks with my family although muted from normal I DID look forward to them. I had my evening video games and shows to enjoy if I could just survive the early part of the day. Sleep was always restorative and I enjoyed a good nights sleep when I got one. I could work with difficulty. I enjoyed a reduced but good sex life with my wife again for a couple months. I really think I had a shot at close to full recovery with the path I was on. I really really do. Please know that it is possible to get better and recognize what you have when you have it. Don’t do anything to risk it, and BE CAREFUL, it can always be worse.

Now I can’t sleep again and have nothing. I don’t even know if I’ll be able to keep my job now. I’m so tired of fighting this thing. I had done so well and come so far and now I’m starting over. I don’t know if I can get better again this time again but I have to try. There is no alternative, my kids need me.

I am trying to take stock of what I do have to try and build back again. I can still exercise, even if I can’t sleep and no longer look forward to it. It is a welcome distraction. My family and wife are supportive. I am still working for the time being.

I need to fix my sleep first and foremost. Last time it took around 3-4 months before I started sleeping decent and then 4-5 months before I really started having good sleep and even naps. The only thing I know currently that helps is time. Also I previously had limited success with glycine, magnesium glycinate, and melatonin for sleep. So, I will start there. Hopefully I can build back my sleep faster this time and with it I hope my mental state comes along as well.

We’ll see where I am in 4 months. I think that will be a good date to target for significant progress. I am going to try and do this again with no medication, but I don’t know if I’m strong enough this time. We’ll see. Wish me luck again everyone and throw any tips you may have my way. Maybe I’ll get lucky and this crash will be a short lived one. I can only hope.

I have restarted supplementing vitamin D and also started taking the probiotic I was taking at the start of my journey again. I had stopped all supplements previously. I will also do intermittent fasting as I no longer feel like eating anyways.

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Quick update. Yesterday evening I had my normal upswing although not quite as good as “normal”. Just a small tick lower and my anxiety was just a tick higher. I had a small jump in libido, enjoyed some video games, a book and a show. Had my emotions return to a significantly higher degree than I’m used to at night. Best of all I slept great. Got about 7.5 hours and woke up once for a few minutes. I really hope that one sleepless night was a random blip.

I did have some cold and hot sensations throughout my body last night that concerned me. I assume some hormone levels moving around. Worries me for what is potentially to come. My biggest hope currently is that I upset a balance that will just take a week or two to settle and I’ll come out at the same place I was. I hope against all hope this is the case. I will be so happy if so.

This morning my anxiety has been higher than usual throughout the day which is a little concerning but I know that can improve. I also have a slight dizzy feeling that is concerning and something just feels a little off in my head. None of which is overly concerning as it is, but I am just very worried this will turn out to be very bad in the coming weeks. Right now I’m trying to take it one step at a time and hope I get my evening upswing again and sleep well again. I want to re-establish the rhythm I had.

Biggest change though is that I currently cannot get any level of erection at all. Dick is 100% broken. Now this MAY be normal. I had completely gotten out of the habit of testing things unless I was in the mood, but I have a feeling it’s not. Last night I got an erection with my libido jump, so I hope it’s temporary or just cycles with everything but we’ll see.

People seem to report huge recoveries with Creatine followed by crash to even worse state which is not what I’ve seen yet. God I hope I’ve already seen the worst. Currently, I’ve seen immediate crash followed by hopefully slow return to baseline so far. It was a small amount, so maybe that will save me.

So, I’m trying to figure out what is going on with my symptoms and I’m hoping somebody may be able to help. Jump to the bottom if you want to try to help me, where I’ve posed my questions.

I have figured out a little more about my condition now. So prior to my Creatine crash, I think I misunderstood my symptoms and misidentified my main symptoms as anhedonia and anxiety. My main issue was instead Akathisia.

In March I started feeling MUCH better, to the point of almost feeling cured at one point, then immediately had a step back and the Akathisia set in significantly at start of April. This is due to some dopamine effects, which is true in my experience as I would suffer Akathisia the whole day with little to no interest in anything, but as the Akathisia went away at night I would slowly come back to like 80-85% interest level and felt happy. My libido would come back to some degree sometimes, etc. All dopamine things. So it seems return of dopamine into my body somehow triggered this Akathisia.

After the small dose Creatine crash, the end result is that my Akathisia is worse. I thought it was bad before, but it is really bad now. It also lasts longer as I used to start feeling better around 5PM and now I don’t until around 9PM. And instead of hitting 80-85% dopamine, it’s now more like 75-80%. Additionally, my erectile dysfunction which was minimal before is now significant. I’m impotent in the daytime and nighttime I am only able to get a 50-60% erection with stimulation. At least I have that though. I also seem to now have some level of genital numbness and reduced orgasm quality again as I finally tested this last night. Still good enough, but I would say maybe 70% on both. Libido peak seems also reduced I would hit 60-70% libido sometimes before maybe 1-2 per week and now I am only hitting 30%. Thankfully, I can still get like 5 hours sleep per night. That one sleepless night scared the shit out of me. Overall, If this is as bad as it gets for me from the Creatine mistake, I should probably consider myself lucky. I hope this is as bad as it gets…… If so, I think that a lot of this may be undoable. Every symptom that worsened a small degree is something I’ve already been able to recover from once. So there’s that.

I’m hoping this worsening of symptoms across the board from my Creatine crash will slowly subside and won’t be permanent. I now realize how close I was to recovery and how close I still am. Pre-Creatine crash, Had I gotten rid of the Akathisia and made my evenings like the rest of my day I would’ve forgotten PFS existed and gotten on with my life. Even now, if I can get rid of the Akathisia, I will be able to live a good life and just may need some ED medication. I can comfortably work towards further recovery if my whole day was like it is after 9PM.

What I’m trying to figure out is why the cycles? Why does my dopamine only kick in at night? I’ve been reading a lot and there seems to be some similarities to Parkinson’s here.

Also, why did the Creatine trigger this crash and worsening Akathisia? The only thing I could figure is something to do with Calcium channels, but I was hoping someone smarter than me might be able to fill in the blanks.

All, I have spiraled. This feels like a smaller version of my original crash. I simply cannot believe how much worse I got in such a short amount of time. I am barely sleeping again and it feels like my brain is on fire. I’m impotent and worst of all, my anhedonia is complete again. It’s hard to make myself eat and I was REALLY enjoying food again. My anxiety is so bad I’ve been walking and running all day past week, it’s so bad that my legs hurt tremendously and I have cracks all over my feet. I can barely walk just from pure exhaustion. I can never sit down and it doesn’t let up until around 10PM from the moment I wake up.

I am trying to make a plan, but I don’t know what to do here. Any help, advice, or support is appreciated.

I have two lines of thought. Do what I did the first time and pray it works again. Hopefully along the same timeline or faster. Or resort to medication to try and treat symptoms enough to make life livable.

This just feels like an unwinnable fight though now. If I am to do this again, here are the steps.

  • I would go on carnivore diet again to reduce inflammation and hopefully anxiety. It feels like my brain is literally on fire so this may be a good step.
  • I would stay on this for 3-4 months and then slowly re-introduce carbs and sugars over the course of the next 2-3 months.
  • I have restarted Vitamin D supplementation and also my probiotic. I learned that my probiotic had a strain in it that is used in Parkinson’s treatments for raising dopamine levels, so maybe this was helping and I didn’t know it. I took it just because a lot of people here do. I now thing this may have helped. It’s L. plantarum, PS128 there is a paper about it somewhere.
  • I will take 0.3mg time release melatonin nightly for around 3-4 months and taper off to reset my clock.
  • Occasional MG and glycine to help sleep.
  • Lastly, just get outside as much as possible in the sun and excercise a lot best I can. Sticking only to endurance running training this time. Spend time with family at parks and other outdoor activities.

If I am to go the medicinal route, I need some suggestions. Here is my list of stuff I have thought about trying in the past. Would love to hear thoughts. I am mostly interested in improving my anxiety, anhedonia/mood, appetite, and sleep. If any of this can be taken without impeding long-term recovery, I would like to know.

  • Mirtazipine
  • Trazadone
  • Bupropion
  • GHB
  • Ketamine
  • Gabapentin
  • Pramipexole
  • Tranylcypromine (Parnate)
  • phenelzine (Nardil)
  • Some kind of hormone treatment, there seem to be a lot.
  • HCG

All,

I seem to have stabilized a bit, unfortunately stabilized not at all where I want to be. My sleep
Is fine for now at least, so I can make myself function normally. I am actually getting considerably more consistent sleep after my crash. 4 + 2 hours every night for a few nights running now. My anxiety is actually much lower and Akathisia is mostly gone now, much lower. My sexual function has plummeted into nothing though and my anhedonia is now severe. Just want to do the official report here below.

Self-reporting form

  1. Name of the therapy/substance: Creatine Monohydrate
  • Dosage: Approximately 0.5g
  • How often you took it: once
  1. Status
  • Still using No
  • Stopped with persistent change to symptoms Yes
  1. Duration of use: one single time
  2. Response when you started:
  • Greatly improved [ ]
  • Slightly improved [ ]
  • Stayed the same [ ]
  • Slightly worsened [ ]
  • Greatly worsened Xxxxxxxxxxx
  1. Current response (if you’re still using) OR Response in the time before you stopped the treatment
  • Greatly improved [ ]
  • Slightly improved [ ]
  • Stayed the same [ ]
  • Slightly worsened [ ]
  • Greatly worsened Xxxxxxxxxxxxx
  1. Lasting changes to initial symptoms after cessation (if you have stopped for more than 3 weeks)
  • Greatly improved [ ]
  • Slightly improved [ ]
  • Stayed the same [ ]
  • Slightly worsened [ ]
  • Greatly worsened Xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

I’m not 100% certain on this, but I don’t think I’ll be posting here much anymore unless I have a significant change in my condition. I may make some other posts to try and sort some things out or to ask questions but my story is now on-hold.

My goal here the whole time was to give hope and show new members that recovery is possible. I think I’ve done that and want to summarize my advice for everyone in this last post.


I can’t stress how bad things were for me from the start. Some have been experiencing this for years, some are just experiencing it now. It feels like you can’t live a single day like this, much less a full life. I feel this way even now, but to a much lesser degree than before. You can see all my symptoms above, I had basically every symptom you can have except muscle wasting, gyno, shrunken testes, and maybe a few others. My worst were complete impotence, severe anhedonia, bottomless depression, Akathisia, anxiety so bad I thought about suicide every second. I experienced all of this daily for months and somehow pushed through. Just know that you can improve if you somehow find the strength to make it.

Before my latest crash I was doing fantastic. I had roughly 75-85% mental recovery each evening and sometimes rarely to 90-100%. I was scheduling video game times with friends, I was starting to leave the house again regularly, I was having sex 10-15 times per month unassisted with true libido. I was sleeping 5-7 hours per night broken but restorative. Still I thought that death might not be so bad almost daily due to my intensely bad mornings. Mornings had complete anhedonia and terrible Akathisia/anxiety from the moment I woke up until around 6PM. I was still improving too.

I did not realize how far I had come, so I think it’s important for you to take stock every now and then and write down where you are compared to where you were. Don’t evaluate changes on a daily basis. Improvements come slowly, monthly maybe, or even quarterly. Keeping a daily log helped me, I would recommend this way you can look back monthly and see long term improvements. I used a spreadsheet that I could quickly fill in each morning and night.

I recommend making a very regimented schedule to get through the tough times, you won’t be able to do anything more than go through the motions. Try to consume your day with things to keep you busy every minute. Same every day, simplify your life. For me this included diet as I didn’t want to even think about what to eat and whether it would crash me. I went with carnivore diet. I think it’s a good choice.

Notice the small things that are improvements. Immediately before my crash I didn’t notice these things until they were gone. I was uncontrollably craving snacks at night like I used to. I loved to munch at night while I play games before. I was getting full spontaneous erections at night just lying down reading. I was on a basic level, looking forward to some things each day/week even in my bad anhedonia phases. I still had a basic looking forward to schedule a game with my friends as I knew at some point my anhedonia would break each day. I was starting to laugh on a much more regular basis again. My paranoia about what things would crash me or had me almost disappeared, this one would prove to be my downfall I suppose though.

Recalibrate your life expectations for a bit. Based on my timeline I would say at least for a year. I used to crave video games, shows, books, painting and board games. They were my life and I consumed them. If I wasn’t making progress in one of my games/shows, reading a book from my backlog, or covering my painting backlog, I felt I was wasting time. I wanted to so badly get back to that, but it was not what was important. Throughout this I found so much more joy in life. I have never spent so much time with my wife and children and never spent so much time doing simple activities like taking walks, running, and going to parks. I grew to truly find joy in these simple things, whereas previously I would frequently see these things as something to do so I could get back to my passions. Your life will be waiting on you when you get better, take your time. Enjoy what you can in the meantime on your journey to getting better. Enjoy the sun on your skin, the wind in a breeze, it may not be possible at the start, but it can come over time.

Most importantly, take stock of what you have and know that I can always be worse. Appreciate what you have. Only sexual symptoms? Count yourself lucky you don’t have the mental sides. Trust me, they’re worse, MUCH worse. Full onslaught of mental sides? Be glad if you’re not bedridden. You will feel so badly you will want to do anything to feel better. Don’t fall into this trap, you will likely get better with time and there is likely nothing you can do, no supplement you can take that will immediately cure you. It’s more important to make sure you DON’T GET WORSE. Don’t take anything remotely risky. If you can avoid that, you have a chance to improve.

Find a good support group, talk to those that care about you. Be with that support group as much as possible.

Make a plan and execute. Try not to waste endless hours on the forums researching, if there was something there to help you, someone would’ve found it by now. I still fall into this trap all the time, even now. Don’t get me wrong, it is a great source of information and you should initially read a lot. Do your initial research CAREFULLY, learn what pitfalls to avoid. Then make your plan and get to it. Don’t constantly test your erections, just to test. Just let it come.

I will end this by giving you what my plan ended up being, and what my plan is now to try and get better for a second time.

General:

  • Very regular regimented schedule.
  • Focus on meditation to lower anxiety.
  • TRY not to dwell on mistakes and bad situation.
  • Reduce stress as much as possible
  • As much sun as possible, outdoors time
  • Simplify my life.
  • Take full advantage of any upswings

Sleep:

  • Sleep from midnight to 12:30, wake up 6-8AM
  • Take 0.3mg time release melatonin for a few months to reset clock.
  • Take magnesium glycinate and glycine as needed to assist. Try to take rarely and ween off once no longer needed.
  • Use white noise and blackout mask as needed.
  • normal good sleep hygiene practices.

Diet:

  • Carnivore diet for 3-4 months to stabilize
  • Reintroduce carbs slowly starting with healthy options such as vegetables and quinoa. Slowly add fruits thereafter.
  • Regimented eating and drinking habits, make it simple.
  • No refined sugar, alcohol or caffeine. Only decaf coffee in the morning.

Exercise:

  • Primarily endurance exercise. Running in sun with shirt off. 5-8 miles per day.
  • May cycle with lifting as before. Thought is to push and pull testosterone with exercise. Lower it using endurance training then raise it with lifting in cycles.
  • Go on many long walks.

Supplements:

  • Vitamin D 2000 IU daily
  • Probiotic daily. Psychibiotic strain L. Plantarum in particular.
  • Sugar free electrolyte water mix to replenish what I lose from sweat, etc.

Misc:

  • Play a video game every night and read one chapter of a book I would used to enjoy.
  • Watch comedy at night with wife to try and relax.
  • Listen to things I would enjoy previously while running. Mainly comedy and fantasy football.
  • Sometimes cold showers for distraction as needed.

Good luck everyone. I hope I do come back eventually with a recovery story or at least great improvement, but crashing myself this second time has really defeated me. I may still be on the forums trying to figure out what happened, or to make a future plan to seek treatment of symptoms if I decide that I’ve had enough and I am ready to risk it all for some relief. For the most part now, it’s time for me to try and take my own advice for a few months.

I hope the research yields results. May we all be better someday.

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If your body had the ability to get you back to where you were before your creatine crash, then you can get back there by taking each day as it comes. I will be rooting for you and send you strength for your recovery.

Of course, every plan to get better should also include supporting the PFS Network. Two decades of this forum prove that science is the only way all of us can reliably find a path back to our normal lives.

All the best and I hope you will be posting a recovery story as soon as possible!

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I wonder whether there are actually two different entities of PFS. One with complete emotional flatness, no anxiety and easy sleep, and the other with anxiety and insomnia.

I would definitely be of the first type, I sleep easily and never feel any anxiety whatsoever. Or any form of excitement good or bad anyhow.

I can also try whatever and not leave baseline in any shape or form. It’s as if I can not progress or change baseline somehow.

Good to read you’re somehow able to fluctuate to higher grounds. Thank you for making this comprehensive log, and for giving people hope.

Keep it up :muscle:

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I would say there are multiple types of PFS, but I don’t think it’s as simple as the two types you’ve listed. I had severe anxiety, insomnia, but also the emotional flatness as well. Although I did have fluctuations in the flatness after a certain point in recovery, so maybe it is that people lean towards one of the two types you’ve listed.

I’ve been scared to post an update, because I feel like I’m likely on the verge of a crash and don’t want to jinx it. It’s been like 5.5 weeks since the Creatine and after my brutal crash I slowly recovered somewhat close to baseline over past 4-5 weeks. Then this past 4-5 days or so, suddenly I’m 95% recovered and the past 2 days with very little fluctuation. All that remains is a little morning anxiety, morning wood lacking strength/duration, and my sleep is not 100% but has been suddenly VERY good. (5 hours wake up and then can go back to sleep and get up to 2-3 more broken hours after).

I feel like this has to be a false recovery on the way to a crash, and I am constantly terrified of this very likely outcome. Right now I’m just hoping when I do crash it will be back to my previous baseline and not to some horrible new low. However, I am just hoping by some slim chance it’s not leading to a crash. I’m currently for the most part mentally, physically, and sexually recovered including libido (which is pretty close to 100%). I’m gonna stay off the forum until I know what’s going on or consider myself recovered so hopefully you don’t hear from me for the next 3-4 months.

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So, I’m still not far enough out to claim recovery but if I am still in this state come end of August I will move on with my life. I am still doing VERY well since my last post, but still terrified every day this is a temporary recovery and I am going to crash any day now.

I just want to drop in quickly to record my experience and thoughts before they’re gone from my memory.

After the small dose Creatine I crashed hard. It was just like my original crash although to a slightly smaller scale. All my original symptoms came back including nerve and joint pain, muscle twitches, impotence, everything and I feared the worst. Additionally, my Akathisia went through the roof and I could not sit down for like two days. I walked so much my feet cracked and my muscles were extremely sore I was so physically exhausted. However, this is where things get weird.

It was like this time when DHT came back online or whatever you want to call it, it did it correctly. I seemed to recover within the normal timeframe and everything got better and continues to get better by the day. I’m still not 100% but I’m very damn close. Close enough not to care and I’ve been this way for the better part of over a month now. As “good” as I was doing before the Creatine I still thought about death daily in the mornings. This recovery is something totally different.

So, to summarize, still doing well, terrified of a crash, wish me luck. For everyone else, hang in there.

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I think it’s important for me to note that despite how I’m doing now, I absolute do NOT think anyone should take Creatine. It is far too dangerous. Please stay away from this substance.

Also, I ate some Mangosteen last night and for the first time in a while I had a setback. I’m not sure if this is just the crash I was waiting for or if the mangosteen really affected me. It was the only thing new I’ve introduced in a while and when I looked it up, it has some aromatase effects on estrogen and likely also effects testosterone in some way. You really have to go out of your way to avoid anything that might affect your hormone levels. It’s ridiculous.

My sleep was crap for first time in a while and had some hot flashes and sweating. Just a slight setback in all departments but nothing too terrible that I don’t have hope will level out again soon. I’ll report back once I know exactly what’s going on.

For now, I recommend to avoid Mangosteen though just in case.

Recovered fairly quickly from the Mangosteen and was back doing very well but may have messed up even worse now. Ate a meal with around 3-4 oz of tofu in it and felt the effects within an hour. I’ve been doing too well lately and have gotten so careless. You would think I’d have learned my lesson by now. Here’s hoping I recover quickly again. I had eaten tofu previously before the Creatine crash without issue, I seem to be very sensitive to diet now after the Creatine crash.

Avoid Soy!

I may go back to carnivore temporarily just so I know I’m safe from further damage. Especially while I’m currently so unstable it seems. Watching what you eat so carefully is hard. Especially when there’s no real list to follow. I’ll start a list here of foods/supplements that I’m fairly certain affect me.

Tofu/Soy
Chocolate
Caffeine
Mangosteen
Creatine
Flax Seed

If anyone has a good list of food to avoid, or dietary tips for the more sensitive please share.