Henchman's Story

  1. Where are you from (country)? USA
  2. How did you find this forum (Google search - Looking for recovery stories)
  3. What is your current age, height, weight? 37, 5ft 10in, 150 lbs.
  4. Do you excercise regularly? If so, what type of excercise? yes, twice a day now. Weightlift 4 times per week, heavy run 2 times per week, one day light cardio.
  5. What type of diet do you eat (vegetarian, meat eater, raw, fast-food/organic healthy)? Clean eats/Paleo primarily with some small concessions (Quinoa/Brown Rice)
  6. Why did you take Finasteride (hair loss, BPH, other)? Hair loss prevention
  7. For how long did you take Finasteride (weeks/months/years)? Took less than 6 months of pills over approximately 9 months (kept forgetting to take it)
  8. How old were you, and WHEN (date) did you start Finasteride? 37
  9. How old were you when you quit, and WHEN (date) did you quit? 37
  10. How did you quit (cold turkey or taper off)? Cold Turkey
  11. What type of Finasteride did you use – Finasteride
  12. What dose did you take (eg. 1 mg/day, 1 mg every other day etc.)? 1mg every day, but often forgot to take, especially towards the end.
  13. How long into your use of Finasteride did you notice the onset of side effects? 9 months, triggered me stopping or perhaps me forgetting to take it so much at the end triggered the side effects, unsure.
  14. What side effects did you experience while on the drug that have yet to resolve since discontinuation?I am listing all side effects even those that aren’t present currently as they have been returning from time to time or I am not yet convinced I am in the clear from anything.

Put an X beside all that apply:

[x ] Loss of Libido / Sex Drive
[ ] Erectile Dysfunction
Complete Impotence
[x] Loss of Morning Erections
[x] Loss of Spontaneous Erections
[x] Loss of Nocturnal Erections
[ ] Watery Ejaculate
[] Reduced Ejaculate
[] Inability to Ejaculate / Orgasm
[] Reduced Sperm Count / Motility

[x] Emotional Blunting / Emotionally Flat
Difficulty Focusing / Concentrating
Memory Loss / Forgetfullness
Stumbling over Words / Losing Train of Thought
[] Slurring of Speech
[] Lack of Motivation / Feeling Passive / Complacency
[x] Extreme Anxiety / Panic Attacks
[x] Severe Depression / Melancholy
Suicidal Thoughts
[x] Severe Insomnia

[] Penile Tissue Changes (narrowing, shrinkage, wrinkled)
Penis curvature / rotation on axis
Testicular Pain
[] Testicular Shrinkage / Loss of Fullness
[x] Genital numbness / sensitivity decrease
[] Weight Gain
Gynecomastia (male breasts)
[] Muscle Wastage
Muscle Weakness
Joint Pain
Dry / Dark Circles under eyes
[x] Nerve pain (forearms and calves primarily)
[x] Muscle twitching

Prostate pain
[] Persistent Fatigue / Exhaustion
[] Stomach Pains / Digestion Problems
Constipation / “Poo Pellets”
Vision - Acuity Decrease / Blurriness
Increased hair loss
Frequent urination
[x] Lowered body temperature
[x] Loss of appetite/enjoyment of food

Other (please explain)

  1. What (if any) treatments have you undertaken to recover from your side effects since discontinuation of the drug? No formal treatments, to be discussed below.
  2. If you have pre or post-Finasteride bloodtests, what hormonal changes have you encountered since discontinuing the drug (pls post your test results in the “Blood Tests” section and link to them in your post)? None.
  3. Anything not listed in the above questions you’d like to share about your experience with Finasteride? No
  4. Tell us your story, in your own words, about your Finasteride usage and side effects experienced while on/off the drug.

My story and RECOVERY:

I am an early sufferer, so I don’t know what use my story will be but if it helps anyone it will be worth posting. Also, I’m hopeful others may have some tips to help me get better.

My first side effects while still taking the drug was severe Muscle twitching, anxiety, loss of appetite, loss of enjoyment, and depression (constant horrible thoughts). Also, looking back I also had a symptom where when I was about to fall asleep a sudden wave of anxiety would instantly wake me along with a deep breath, after which I could typically fall asleep normally. This happened 1-2 months nightly leading up to my crash.

The depression and anxiety were absolutely crippling initially and continued for about 2 weeks relentlessly after which I seemed to get better for a period of 1-2 weeks. During this 2nd time frame I was admitted to the ER for shortness of breath and nerve pain on one side of my body (forearm and calf on right side). I now see that this was likely a panic attack. It was around this time I realized what was going on and the anxiety returned even worse than before along with depression and horrible thoughts at the same level. I moved my office outside and the only thing that made me feel even remotely better was exercise and being in the sun. I spent most waking hours in direct sunlight and walking/jogging when I just couldn’t take it anymore. During this time period, existence was pain. I just looked forward to sleep every night and all I could do was to try and make it through each day. It was during this timeframe that I started my no processed foods/no sugar/clean eats/paleo diet at the same time and started drinking a lot more water. During this 1-2 week period my appetite was nonexistent and I had to force food down using water. I started drinking a spinach/fresh fruit smoothie every morning with flax seed/chia seeds and collagen powder (mostly for glycine). This was something easy for me to eat and just a way to get nutrition. I also started an intense exercise regimen about this time since it was really the only thing that kept me going, with A LOT of time in the sun. I lost 20 lbs. within like 10 days.

I also started a regimen of edging during this time period? I read that masturbation could cause temporary loss in receptor activity but also read that sexual activity could boost testosterone, so I just thought what the hell? I did have waves where it was very difficult to get an erection, so this wasn’t always easy but I did a schedule twice a day. I would edge myself almost to orgasm then let myself cool down all the way then back up 3 times in the morning and 3 times at night. I also took cold showers, about 3 per day and always immediately prior to this. Otherwise I have been entirely abstinent, no orgasms.

So now we’re about 3 weeks to month in and I started getting severe emotional blunting which occurs for around 1 week and then I start feeling like I’m recovering a little bit again (depression mostly gone, anxiety lessening, no emotional blunting) and then absolute terrifying insomnia sets in. I started waking up earlier and earlier the days leading up to this and then I simply had my ability to sleep removed. I didn’t sleep for 4 days straight initially and when I finally slept it wasn’t like normal sleep, it was more like I just lost track of time for an hour or two at a time. This persisted for about 2 weeks with another 4 day stretch of essentially no sleep mixed in before I got SOME reprieve.

During this time period, I stuck with my diet, cold shower/edging, and exercise regimen no matter how I felt. Anxiety and depression continued to come back in waves and insomnia slowly got slightly better 2-3 hours sleep standard with days of 4-5 hours or more (always very interrupted sleep). Appetite also started to return and seemed to strongly coincide with how I felt mentally and also with the quality of my sleep. Fast forward a few more weeks and I actually feel 90% normal, I get a few full nights sleep mixed in with a few nights of 4-5 hour or 6-7 hours. Anxiety and restless sleep are really my only symptoms for about a 2 week period. I feel so good that I falter and break my regimen. I cheated on my diet, quit my edging routine, I had sex twice on back to back days, and also broke my sleep routine. I had always tried to go to bed 9-10PM and keep a very set schedule, but stayed up late a few nights and even went to sleep at my parents house and broke routine. After this the following 1.5 weeks was terrible, but I went right back to my normal routine and the ship is mostly righted at this point except for the insomnia.

Here’s my routine and where I am currently (approximately 2 months in):

Exercise: Daily - Wake up 7:30AM and run/walk 2-3 miles depending how I feel. Shirt off always, full sun. 4 days a week of heavy lifting, rotating muscle groups - immediately after my morning jog. HIIT Sprint training twice a week when I’m not lifting, one day of light cardio. Afternoon around 5-6PM - I walk/jog another 1-2 miles when I’m not doing HIIT.

Diet: Somewhat of a fasting diet as I generally eat all my food between 10AM and 7PM. No caffeine, no alcohol, no sugar, no processed food, everything organic, handmade or fresh.

Breakfast Daily 9-10AM - 2 boiled eggs and fresh blended smoothie (Collagen powder, chia seeds, flax seed, spinach, pineapple, 1 banana, and grapes/watermelon/blueberries/blackberries/apples) Last ingredient is really whatever fruit is going bad I will freeze and use it in my smoothies. I also put 1/2 tsp tumeric and 1/4 tsp ginger powder.

Lunch - 1PM Clean eats/Paleo rotating. Carbs come entirely from potato/squash/corn/quinoa and brown rice occasionally. I eat a lot of fish and fresh vegetables/fruits.

Dinner - 6PM Clean eats/Paleo rotating. Carbs come entirely from potato/squash/corn/quinoa and brown rice occasionally. I eat a lot of fish and fresh vegetables/fruits. I force myself to eat a lot here as much as possible even if my appetite is lacking.

Throughout Day - I eat pumpkin seeds and pistachios throughout the day for magnesium. I try to eat quite a lot to get daily recommended value. I also drink lots of water up until dinner ( to avoid peeing at night) and Saffron Tea (3-4 cups early). I drink 1 cup chrysanthemum tea before sleeping.

Other: I still do my edging routine and am otherwise abstinent. I take cold showers throughout the day. I listen to comedy and things I enjoy (or used to enjoy) always when exercising etc. even when I don’t want to which is very often.

Current Status: I am past almost every symptom except anxiety and insomnia for the most part although they do come back in small waves occasionally. Anxiety comes in small waves as well, but seems less and less as days go on and I have some days of almost 100% reprieve. Insomnia is still rough though. Minimum now seems to be 2-3 hours which can go on for a full week at which point my body seems to give in and I’ll get a decent night’s sleep. Some days are better than others but this symptom is the worst by far.

I think my routine helps, although my only evidence is my recovery to date and the complete crash after I stopped for 1-2 days. I hope this helps someone, does anybody else have any similar remaining symptoms and tips to surmount them?


Looks like a good routine to me.

Although I would drop the flax seeds. If they are not crushed your probably fine (health wise) but if they’re the crushed sort you should most def not eat them.

I’m Sweden they had to stop selling crushed flax seeds due to health concerns…

I’d replace them with psyllium if I were you.

It’s only been 2 months for you so it’s likely you will keep getting better.

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I’ll second @Cbrandel‘s endorsement and warning re the flax seeds (there are better fiber/anti-androgen supplements to experiment with if that’s your thing). Also, the exercise regimen is a bit advanced for many PFS sufferers…but it’s a great one to work your way up to, being very mindful of your body.

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Why do you think you have PFS? Looks like just temporary side effects of propecia. PFS is when they don’t go away but yours are going away, even very quickly since it looks like only been off the drug for a short time. Also, what is the point of edging and doing such extremely taxing quantities of exercise?

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With any luck I don’t have PFS but I have symptoms that have not yet gone away and the symptoms of this are awful enough that I will do ANYTHING to keep from going back to that dark place as much as possible. The exercise is the only thing that gets me through the day many times still. The anxiety is so intense I can’t sit still. I can’t even relax enough to sit down for a meal, I have to constantly be moving and the exercise is the only thing that remotely helps or at least distracts me. Plus many recovery stories I have read include intense exercise as a component. I’ve been keeping a sleep log and I seem to sleep slightly better when I exercise heavily. The edging is also related to some recovery stories I’ve read related to masturbation frequency.

Whether I’m on my way to full recovery or not this seems to be working, so I’ll stick with it as long as it takes to either fully recover or until I see evidence that this is no longer yielding progress.

As an update, my sleep disturbances have continued to lessen on average, but I am still having problems with anxiety and depression.


Warning for anyone here. Saffron tea seems to help me, but my wife found that it gave her severe depression. The depression resolved itself immediately after she stopped drinking it and comes back if she drinks it, so it’s almost 100% confirmed as the cause. Just beware of this possibility if you try drinking it.

Despite this bad possible side effect, it seems to validate that Saffron tea is absolutely doing something to your brain chemistry. Considering this, it seems something that might possibly help those suffering from the mental side effects of this disease.

Also, I’ve switched to lavender tea in the evenings and could be nothing, but from my sleep log it seems like it possibly has some correlation to better sleep quality and mood boost.

DO NOT use the Saffron tea. Or if you do try it, try it in very small dose, like 1 stigma. I now believe this to have been inhibiting my recovery and not helping and may even be responsible for subsequent crashes.

My anxiety and depression have mostly passed entirely now although anxiety does return in small waves occasionally. My sleep symptoms were also resolved and I finally felt great for about 2 weeks, basically 100%. I again went off my routine slowly and things continued to go well for about 1 week when I had a small crash of insomnia. I went from sleeping normally to 5-6 hours per night. I stuck with most of my routine still but not as strict on diet. This 5-6 hours continued for about 1 week and then I crashed to sleepless nights again. All other symptoms are still gone but I can barely get any sleep. I started to recover slightly again after a few days and got one night of mostly full sleep although very interrupted and then crashed again. I think I traced the crashes to occur days after I drank saffron tea.

I’ve now stopped the saffron tea entirely but am keeping the rest of my routine. Last night was first night post saffron completely and I only got 1-2 hours of sleep. This symptom is essentially the last remaining and yet most direct threat to my livelihood for me and my family. Does anyone have any tips to overcome or manage the debilitating insomnia?

Last week I had 4 entirely sleepless nights out of 7. The 3 where I got sleep we’re not that great either. I started taking Glycine 1-2 hours before bed and a magnesium supplement at dinner. I also took L-Theanine in the morning and then 3 mg time release melatonin right before sleep. This helped me get about 3 hours right off the bat from 9:30PM to 12:30 or 1AM. I then always wake up and take another 1-3 mg melatonin and can get some additional broken sleep. Last night I also ate a banana when I awoke and I think I logged around 6 hours although very interrupted outside of the initial 3 hours. This is the best I’ve slept in months. I have gotten a minimum of four hours for 4 days straight now. I have been following a post by someone names “Jezza” who has made a full recovery as their symptoms sound identical to mine. I’m following their recovery protocol and it seems to be helping me significantly.

I also cut out my exercise for two days as Jezza mentioned having excercise intolerance, but that brought the anxiety problems back full force whereas it had not been a real problem for at least a month. It was an absolutely awful two days. I started working out heavily again yesterday and the anxiety became very manageable again. So, not every recovery protocol seems one size fits all. You have to find out what works for you.

Have been trying to get my Primary Doctor to help me with this and with referrals and he referred me to a psychiatrist and said he didn’t know any other way to help me. For those out there without any external help, don’t be discouraged. I’ve found lots of ideas on this forum that have seemed to help me.

I have additional supplements I may try soon if I hit a plateau in recovery and will report back how I progress.

Update. I cut out all supplementation except magnesium bisglycinate 200mg and take that about 1-2 hours before sleep. I still excercise but not as heavily as before. Minimum I run two miles, and will also mix in HIIT or weight lifting. I also cut out collagen from my morning smoothie and my melatonin intake drastically down to 0.5mg and that seems to have helped a lot. As soon as I take that I’m asleep within 20 minutes now. I have the kind where you put under your tongue and let it dissolve. I also eat a small snack of gluten-free oats and banana before sleep and it seems to help with sleep quality. I feel I have deep restorative sleep now and wake up only once or twice. Once always somewhere from 2:30 to 4AM and then again around 6-7 when I usually wake up for good but have been able to sleep an additional hour once.

I have been having this sleep schedule for 5 days straight now although I am waking up earlier and earlier which makes me fear for a relapse as this is what happened before previous crashes.

Immediately prior to being able to sleep this well I had intense hot flashes for 2-3 days, also cold genitals. These symptoms subsided and after that my sleep returned. I still have light hot flashes occasionally but they seem to be going away. My anxiety and stress intolerance are still very present and I still have some recurring light depression symptoms despite the sleep. All of these symptoms come and go. There are times when they’re completely gone, but more often that not at least one of them is there. My hope is that I can at least keep the sleep going which I hope will accelerate my recovery.

I haven’t updated my story in a while and want to update that I definitely have PFS. After the hot flashes I mentioned above, things got significantly worse. I had 100% anhedonia set in, 100% impotence, loss of all libido (visual and otherwise), complete lack of motivation/complacency, penile shrinkage, testicular pain, difficulty concentrating, forgetfulness. All this 4 months after quitting! This disease is insane. I initially had very very mild erection and libido issues and I thought my primary issues were only anxiety and insomnia. However, now that I’ve had time to think about it, I did already at this point have some emotional blunting and anhedonia, just not as intense as after my 4 month crash. My anhedonia and resulting lack of motivation was so bad that I could barely make myself eat. Some other symptoms I didn’t note down before were frequent urination at night (6-7 times), dry skin (on hands and feet), and dry eyes.

Now as bad as the situation above sounds, I believe I have improved VASTLY since my crash at end of September. I have settled on a routine now centered around 3 things: Heavy exercise, minimal supplements, and zero-carb Carnivore diet.

I want to make sure that this recovery is stable and not another false recovery before detailing, but I now have some hope whereas before I had none. For those just starting out I have some advice that I believe were pitfalls for me:

  • I initially went gluten-free. Many replacements have flax seed in them. There is a study on flax seed lowering DHT significantly and I believe flax seed MAY have led to my 2nd crash. Please be careful of this if you go Gluten-free and otherwise.

  • Try zero-carb carnivore early and just see if it stabilizes you. It seems to have helped me, although still early and unsure. I will update.

  • DO NOT drink alcohol even if you start feeling better. Just stay away for a long time.

  • You will want to focus on using all sorts of supplements to try and feel better quickly in some kind of panic mode. Instead, make a plan (exercise and carnivore for example) make it EASY so it doesn’t stress you. Have a simple eating routine, nothing complicated. Focus instead on not getting worse or not doing anything else that might crash you at the start. The beginning is bad. Try to stabilize before you start trying things. I think carnivore diet is a good place to start as it’s so restrictive that there’s not much you’re investing that can harm you. Even if it doesn’t make you better, it’s almost certainly not going to make you worse.

  • Try to stay away from forums and researching your condition. Difficult I know. Focus very much on meditation and reducing your stress and anxiety levels at ALL costs. This is VERY important. Take walks, exercise, whatever you can do to relax.

I am signing off now until end of November at which point I will be back hopefully with good news for all of you. I will detail my current symptoms and recovery thus far, along with my full protocol that seems to be helping. Stay strong everyone. If anyone needs to talk, feel free to message me. There are many here that have helped me, and I only want to pay it forward.


I also want to add before I forget is that I had almost no symptoms before stopping finasteride. My symptoms onset as I travel for work and left it at home accidentally one week. I then began having intense anxiety attacks, severe muscle twitches, and jerking awake right before sleep. Thinking back I did have slightly lowered libido (once every other day as opposed to 1-2 per day), dry skin, and increased response to stress, but was barley notable at the time.

The remainder of my symptoms all set in after stopping finasteride. Initially insomnia and anxiety, and 4 months later the rest. It’s highly possible I was sunk the moment I took my first pill.

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I will try to keep this mostly positive as positive posts have served me well during my recovery and negative posts have routinely been so detrimental to my mental state. Now just as a warning I will talk about how bad it is and was, but the overall tone I intend to try and keep positive.

To summarize. I am still doing well, VERY well in fact, but it is VERY fragile and I’m still in a constant state of fear that this is some kind of temporary recovery. For the past 3+ weeks now I have mostly been in a state of somewhere between 70-90% recovery. I am recovered to the point that if I had to live the rest of my life this way without fear of PFS, I would be happy. Here is a brief summary of my entire timeline so far:

First 1month-ish:
Muscle twitching, INTENSE depression, Periods of unexplainable anxiety, unusual stress response, lowered appetite, jerking awake right before sleep, and panic attacks. It did not take me long to determine PFS was the cause but I don’t know exactly the dates here. Anxiety was so bad I went to hospital for what I now know was a panic attack. The only thing that made me feel slightly better was exercise and being in the sun. I spent about every waking hour outside, walked constantly, ran A LOT. I lost like 25 pounds in 2 weeks. I tried low fat paleo and gluten-free. Anxiety was so intense at many points I wanted to die.

0.75 - 1.5 months:
Complete insomnia. Never had sleep issues before, I could sleep anywhere, literally anywhere. Always 8-9 hours a night. I could sleep through a tornado. Initially, I didn’t sleep for four days straight twice in a two week period. The sleep I did get was more just like losing track of time for an hour or two here and there. I was surprisingly calm throughout this period and kept my anxiety very low despite the circumstances. After two weeks all symptoms begin to quickly but gradually resolve.

1.5 to 2.5 months:

I was for the most part 100% recovered, sleep and all. By the end of this month I had all but forgotten anything about PFS.

2.5 months to 3.5 months:
My sleep was the first thing to go to shit again: I was routinely going for 1-2 days without sleep with maybe maximum of 4-5 broken hours a night. I was peeing 6-7 times a night and had unusual cold tolerance with severely fluctuating appetite, emotions, and light anhedonia. Anxiety was extremely high again (constantly wanted to die), but depression was mostly gone and I had no real sexual symptoms to speak of except low libido and some VERY mild and fluctuating ED. I chalked this up to a result of the anxiety and everything else I was going through. I also had some kind of digestion issues and still do, my abdomen makes so
much noise now which it didn’t before. I had fluctuating stools at this time.

Now despite my shitty situation to this point I remained VERY motivated to recover. I woke up early every morning, exercises once or twice per day. Made healthy meals strict my diet, etc. I had very high stress though from multiple sources. My wife was not very supportive and did not believe me that PFS was a thing. She thought it was mostly all in my head. I continued to work throughout although I did get to work from home without any travel. I was constantly stressing about my diet, erection quality, complicated recovery routine, cold showers, etc. I was keeping a detailed food/sleep/activity log and constantly stressing and analyzing to figure out what helped my sleep, what helped my anxiety, what made me worse, etc. I then started having hot flashes and has the worst anxiety I’ve ever experience. I took kids to the park and was in the most peaceful serene setting imaginable, yet I was so anxious I remember thinking that I was going to die. It was relentless and then suddenly it went away, and I felt better for a day, almost suddenly recovered then what followed was a brutal crash.

3.5-5ish months:
100% impotence and loss of all libido. Looking at a woman and a dead kitten was the same. Tons of manual stimulation and I could make get it to 30%, my dick was useless. Testicles and penis cold to the touch, penis shrunk, feeling no brain-dick connection. 100% anhedonic, I got joy from nothing and did not even want to eat. Existing in life was a chore, I simply begged for death every minute of the day. Sleep actually got a little better 4-6 hours a night usually with some bad nights. Loss of all emotions, I didn’t feel love for my kids or wife. During this phase though, my wife suddenly came around. From the beginning of this horrifying stage I at least now had her on my side and she has been the most supportive and loving person I could ask for on my team since then. My parents also were supportive throughout and really stepped it up at this point as everyone could see what bad shape I was in. I went to many doctors, endocrinologist, psychiatrist and in the end none of it helped AT ALL. Two general physicians called me crazy and sent me to psychiatry. Endocrinologist was no help AT ALL. The only person ironically that believed me was my psychiatrist who had treated someone else with PFS and did not want to prescribe me anything if I could somehow manage. So, I was at rock bottom with zero medicinal options, I had to do something though as staying in that state was not an option.

5-Ish months until now:
I started the carnivore diet with zero expectations that it would do anything. However on day two I experienced what I would call 100% recovery I slowly got better throughout the day and was 100% recovered for about 6 hours. I felt better in this pattern, bad mornings and great nights (although never 100% again) for about 8 days before crashing again for about 2 weeks to rock bottom. Despite the crash I stuck with it due to my initial response. After this, I started recovering again with same pattern. Bad mornings but good evenings. Now I wake up with OK or good mornings and have generally great evenings with some days feeling great the whole day. As mentioned, I have felt this way now for 3+ weeks. With maybe 2 bad days in the middle. In short, I feel fantastic lately.

Here are the symptoms I have had and where I am currently toward recovery with 10 being full recovery:

Loss of libido - 4/10 - still very low but brief moments of almost full return.
Erectile dysfunction - 9/10 - almost full functionality again
Spontaneous erections - 2/10 rare
Nocturnal: 7/10 - almost every night
Morning: 1/10 - only once so far
Penile shrinkage: 8/10 still returns, sometimes it just seems to deflate beyond what is normal
Penile pain: 8/10 - When it deflates I have slight urethra pain typically.
Emotional blunting - 8/10 fluctuates from 6-10
Lack of motivation - 6/10
Anhedonia - 8/10 I enjoy most everything I used to, just not with 100% same intensity yet.
Anxiety - 7/10 - can actually sit down to eat now and fully relax sometimes. No more constant pacing.
Unusual stress response - 5/10 - still an issue but I am managing things to be as low stress as possible.
Depression - 9/10 - rare glimpses of return
Insomnia - 5/10 generally 6 hours per night with some better and some worse. 2-3 awakenings and no sessions longer than 4 hours typically.
Suicidal thoughts - 10/10
Genital numbness - 10/10 (recovered)
Orgasm quality - 12/10 my orgasms are WAY better now, I don’t understand this one, maybe because I’m having sex rarely for time being?
Nerve pain - 10/10
Muscle twitching - 10/10
Testicular pain - 9/10 rarely
Lowered body temperature - 9/10 I used to be hot constantly but am not anymore.
Appetite - 8/10? Difficult to gage as my diet is so different now.
Dry skin - 8/10 only between fingers and on feet
Dry eyes - 8/10 fluctuates and does not generally bother me anymore, sometimes I need eye drops.
Digestion - 4/10 - my stools have stabilized mostly but my abdomen just makes so much noise throughout the day and it’s not normal. Also, I seem very sensitive to diet changes still.
Loss of aggression - 3/10 - I feel it a little sometimes.


Here is the protocol I have settled on to get me to this state. I have zero idea if ANY of this had ANY effect on my symptoms. For all I know I am in temporary recovery and could crash again tomorrow. All I know is that I feel great right now, I will fully recover eventually, and this is what I’m doing. I had set myself a goal for recovery by my 40th birthday which would be 3 years post-fin. I seem to currently be well ahead of that pace, but this is staying my goal and if I beat that then great!

Now take below plan lightly. I think the most important parts of the plan are exercise, low-carb, simplicity/low anxiety. Your plan needs to be VERY simple. Instead of another source of stress it needs to be a crutch. It needs to be so easy that when you’re in bad shape and have no idea what to do with yourself you can be like “oh yeah I’m eating that for lunch, one less thing to worry about.” Carnivore diet helps with most of those things, so I think it’s a good choice.

Meal Plan:

I use only Monkfruit/erythritol sweetener when needed. I also seem ok with dairy so my diet includes significant dairy.

Upon wake-up: Decaf coffee with 2 Tbsp MCT oil, some sweetener, and heavy cream.

10AM - 3 boiled eggs or egg omelet cooked with ghee, spinach, some meat (usually turkey) and small amount of cheese.

1PM - Sandwich wrap. I use wraps made of cheese or egg and inside I put 1 oz. of cream cheese, 2-3 oz. of meat (turkey+bacon or smoked salmon) and then 3/4 cup of baby spinach. I eat two of these.

1PM alternate - sandwich wrap with Brie cheese, prosciutto, spinach and small amount of blueberries.

1PM alternate - Spinach Quiche plus Ozeph’s ground beef dish known as “dog food”.

6PM - Many options as follows: heavy meat dinner cooked in ghee, Steak or Similar. Brie cheese for fat. Sometimes Broccoli and cheese soup made with only heavy cream, only carbs come from Broccoli. Usually some kind of basic vegetable broth soup, spinach soup very commonly. Chicken breast sliced open and baked with cream cheese, mozzarella, mushroom and spinach in the middle. Lots of fish, mackerel and salmon. I season these only with lemon, salt, and pepper.

Snacks: anytime at meal if I’m still hungry, I eat Ozeph’s “dog food” until full I will send you recipe. Pork Rinds, Brie cheese. I also have meatballs in large batches of different recipes that I can easily heat up for snack or to supplement lunch or dinner. I also have a sauce for dipping the meatballs which is made from full fat Greek yogurt, lemon, salt, pepper, and garlic.

Drink: Only Water, coffee, and electrolyte water - I have a powdered mix I order called “KetoVitals” which is sweetened with Monkfruit.

Ozeph’s Dog Food Recipe:

@Ozeph has been a GREAT help to me so far getting started on my diet and I cannot thank him enough.

2 tbsp of cooked and crushed lentils. Some water, lemon juice and salt.
2 tbsp of ghee
120ml of palm oil (or more, if you need energy)
Heat up in the microwave for 1 minute then whip an egg in, with salt and vinegar or lemon juice until you get a sauce.
Then add 2-3 tbsp of diced, canned tomatoes, some cooked spinach (60gr), 12 olives (6 black, 6 green) and 1/4 of a cucumber, in thin slices.
Add 140gr of fat, cooked, ground beef. (I prepare a lot in advance and freeze)

Daily Routine:

  • I take 1000 IU Vitamin D drops under my tongue first thing in the morning along with 4 probiotic pills on empty stomach. Then take my decaf coffee I described before for you. 500 IU Vitamin D also again after breakfast and yet again after lunch.
  • I drink my ketoVitals electrolyte water throughout the day, 1/3 scoop in 16 oz of water 3 times daily stopping at 6PM. I eat breakfast at 10AM, lunch at 1PM and dinner at 6PM. Diet as described before.
  • I drink an herbal tea at 10PM with Monkfruit sweetener and MCT oil. Snack of pork rinds if hungry. I’m bed at 11:30PM, read one chapter and sleep at approximately midnight. Take 0.5mg Remfresh time release melatonin as I’m laying down to help me STAY asleep. Wake up between 7-8AM
  • Excercise 6-7 days per week with one day of rest or only light 2 mile jog. Other days alternating HIIT training and weight lifting. I do 5k runs with intermittent 10 second sprints the whole way. I do 6 per mile or about 18 sprints for the whole 5k. My weight days are split into chest and arms, back and abs, legs and shoulders. All my workouts are under 45 minutes, 6-8 total exercises and 3 sets. 6-12 reps per exercise mostly with increasing weight per set like Blunted. I will not lie, my exercise is intense. I sometimes will HIIT again on my weight lifting days if I feel motivated or will also run an extra 3 mile run on any given day, even after weights or HIIT. I run ALOT. I also have a stationary bike for when it’s cold and do HIIT on that as well using similar formula when it’s cold or rainy outside. I also do circuit training on my stationary bike with mixed in with push-ups, sit-ups, pull-ups, burpees, and squats. No matter what, I make sure to attack exercise with high intensity.
  • Lastly, and maybe most importantly, meditation and 100% focus/concentration on eliminating every single source of stress in my life as much as possible.

Hi there,
Finally some positive news. I’ll keep my fingers crossed fro your recovery, man. Please update your state here, even if nothing changes.

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Thanks Ultra. I don’t plan to be one that recovers and leaves. I plan to stick around regardless to help others as much as I can and offer hope which is often in short supply around here.

That being said, sticking around too much is often bad for recovery. I’ll try to check for messages if anyone replies here or messages me privately. However, otherwise I’ll be back at the end of December to update my status again.


i’m curious, have you abstained from masturbation during your recovery?

Can I use 8 black and 4 green and still be okay?

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I did a lot of edging early on but did abstain from climax for the most part. I was constantly testing my erections early on. Now I am not obsessing over it but am having sex like once a week maybe when my libido hits hard and returns to normal. Normal for me is like once or twice a day. I do have the urge to more often but don’t want to overdo anything right now.

Nope, that’s how you get Chi’s infamous dancing penis symptom.


Funny story, I drank Saffron tea the first week I had my problems. It definitely helped me feel a bit calmer. I’ve drank maybe 8-10 bottles (using the actual spice stems) of it in total. I’m not sure if this affected my recovery, but I’d like to hope not. :neutral_face: