first: i´m from germany, so please don´t be suprised by my bad english…
I´m off finasterid (finpecia, cipla) since nearly 9 months. I still got very bad ED-problems. Someday in the summer last year it was better, but now i have very big Problems to get and hold a hard erection.
Since 3 weeks i take 60 mg zink by hoping to produce more T in the naturally way. I think it helps a little bit. A very good advice i can give to you guys is to take the amino acid L-ARGININE (40 Euros for 1 month treatment, look at ebay, capsules). When i´m on L-ARGININ i do not have serious problem with my fin-ED. You have to take minimum 2-3 g a day, and at first 2 weeks till you first get the positive results.
But my question to you is about CLOMID! I read some things here in the forum and googled about it. How should i use it? Can anyone here explain how i should start a treatment? I ordered it from the HP mentioned here in the DL Section. Can i take it just evrey morning, 5 days?
I would be very happy if anyone can help me in relation to this!
Regarding your question about Clomid – I advise you to research, post and learn all you can from the guys at forum.mesomorphosis.com , particularly in the Mens Health section.
They have far more experience with steroids, clomid, nolvadex etc than many here. I personally do not know what type of dosing you should undertake, nor am I in a position to advise you as I have not taken it myself (yet).
There is a study in this section that describes how a bodybuilder was able to restart his HPTA with Clomid, and gives dosages in the study… but everyone is different. You should ask over at the MesoRx forum posted above if you have further questions, unless someone here has some answers.
I had/have low T at about 8-10nmol/l (ref 8-30) and tried clomidtreatment for 2 months. It DID raise my T level very much, but I didnt feel much different.
It even held my T level at about 17nmol/l (=about 500ng/dl) for 5 months after stoping but then I relapsed.
After a week on clomid, I had some sideeffects in my eyes, like blurred vision especially going from dark to light, and even today 1½ year after I tried clomid, I still have floaters in my left eye which also came from clomid.
My conclutions:
clomid might jumpstart the HPTA in those who are shut down from steroid abuse, but I think its just a waste of time for us propecia sufferes to try, cause I think our probems are much more than just hypogonadism.
if you MUST try, then consider going with nolvadex instead, cause that is not so hard for your eyes.
Dosage is an issue, particularly in reference to side effects. I think the side effects of floaters etc is at the higher dosages only for the most part.
Nolvadex (brand name) or Tamoxifen as it is better known is not remotely the same as clomid even if they are both in the same SERM class of drugs (Selective estrogen receptor modulators).
Tamoxifen does not have the dramatic effect on the hypothalamus as clomid does and it does not dramatically increase LH or testosterone in the same manner, also Tamoxifen is more hepatotoxic according to many and it also has more of a rebound effect when it is discontinued.
Tamoxifen is a poor anti estrogen that has been put into the shade by aromatase inhibitors such as arimidex, which is far more often used as part of TRT programs.
Clomiphene is primarily used to either re-start the HPTA or as an evocative test to evaluate whether the hypothalamic/pituitary axis is intact as opposed to being used as an anti-estrogen.
Tamoxifen does not have the dramatic effect on the hypothalamus as clomid does and it does not dramatically increase LH or testosterone in the same manner, also Tamoxifen is more hepatotoxic according to many and it also has more of a rebound effect when it is discontinued "
Wrong again Hypo boy. See the word has not got around to your text books yet that Tamox is the new drug of choice for restoring the HPTA. In the next few years when it hits your text books your views will change but I invite you right now over to MESORX to debate this. Come on Hypo, don’t be afraid post on Meso that Tamox is not as good as Clomid and you will get your ass handed to you.
[quote="
Wrong again Hypo boy. See the word has not got around to your text books yet that Tamox is the new drug of choice for restoring the HPTA. In the next few years when it hits your text books your views will change but I invite you right now over to MESORX to debate this. Come on Hypo, don’t be afraid post on Meso that Tamox is not as good as Clomid and you will get your ass handed to you.[/quote]
I love the way you assume that I only get my information from text books when you don’t even know me. I also note the fact that you actually mock text books, which is interesting in its own right.
You have already called me into question before Jim on the basis of saying that I was cut and pasting my posts (categorically wrong). You said you were told as much by a friend who was an endocrinologist. Now I recall asking you to set-up a conversation with this person and have asked for their contact details on numerous occasions, but you never did get back to me did you Jim?
I was willing to speak to your endocrinologist on these matters, to show who I am, but you went all shy and reticent when it came to providing details didn’t you.
Now you wouldn’t provide me with the details of your endocrinologist to speak to on these matters, so you now wish to call me into question again, this time inviting me to talk to your buddies…no I don’t think so Jim.
You continue to talk in the manner one would expect from a bodybuilder who puts all his weight behind insults and all his belief into the words spoken on a questionable bodybuilding board.
I could go much further with insults but I won’t as I don’t think it is productive in the slightest. I have seen dozens of people like you before over the years, in the past I would have pulled the wings off of you, experience tells me that arguing with you does as much to drag me down as it does to make you look stupid- so I’m not entertaining this any further.
I think i’ll leave this right here then.
People can read what we both had to say and choose to believe what they will.
You can invite any of you buddies here if you wish, that is your prerogative. If they are anything like you I guess we can expect a lot of insults.
P.S
Does Phil still post on MESO?
If he does ask him about Chris from the UK and ask him how much he knows about these matters
I sent phil a PM. Should be interesting what he says as I told him about you thinking CYP is a short acting ester
I ask why you didn’t answer my question regarding Nolvadex over Clomid ? It will get to your text books soon.
How about answering my question regarding Cypionate. Seems someone who is such a pro like you wouldn’t mistake it for a short acting testosterone. Now get your books out so you can find out how it really acts in the body.
My friend the Dr has no interest in talking to you.
If steroids are so dangerous Hypo then why don’t you post a link to where anyone;s cause of death has been determined to be caused by steroids. What’s that you can;t find one because there aren’t any. Seems such a terrible class of drugs would have people keeling over everyday
Phil will confirm that I am one of the most educated laymen in the world on this subject; he will confirm that I am VERY knowledgable. Do not try to misrepresent him otherwise I will ask him to join the board and confirm my credentials.
You are an aggressive little man aren’t you. To your latter question I have answered it and point you to your other aggressive post. As for your former question. First of all Nolvadex is the brand name the drug is Tamoxifen and I have already stated that Clomiphene has a greater affect in terms of elevating testosterone than tamoxifen. That is why there is a Clomiphene Citrate test and not a Tamoxifen test.
No you thought you would just sling mud at my character, and you don’t have an endocrinologist who has said anything. You are just off burning barns and slinging mud at people and their reputations.
I asked for you to put me in contact with this supposed person because I could have proven that I know what I am talking about. I am not afforded that opportunity, but I still have to take your abuse…pathetic.
You do not need me here to have a conversation with you because you seem to ask the question and then answer it for me anyway. You also totally misrepresent what my position is.
None of which is remotely surprising .
How could I be anti steroids when I take them every single day as prescribed for my hypogonadism?
I am categorically NOT anti steroid, I am anti steroid abuse, as seen in the bodybuilding community. I am against the taking of AAS with no medical need to boost testosterone to supraphysilogical levels.
That is a position that you are against I have gathered that much.
I am going to say this and then you can frankly continue this discourse on your own given the fact that you do not need me anyway.
EVERY I repeat EVERY single endocrine society, EVERY I repeat EVER single medical institution and EVERY I repeat EVERY single cardiologist, Hepatologist, GP, endocrinologist etc in the ENTIRE I repeat ENTIRE world is in accordance with my position on this matter and DIAMETRICALLY OPPOSED to your position.
Of course you must be right, I bow to your superior intellect.
I am out of this conversation, I am no longer having anything to do with you or anything you have to say any further as I find you very distasteful, extremely aggressive and abusive.
I shall show my worth to this website and the people here over the course of time. I will prove to people what I am about by helping many people and aiding them in a time of need with experience, time and effort. Time and the people here will be my judge NOT you!
Likewise despite how much your huff and puff, when it comes down to it, you will be measured in the same terms.
I am very happy in the knowledge of how that will pan out.
Goodbye to you sir.
P.S
Myself one innocent error regarding thinking you were referring to proprionate as opposed to cyprionate- nothing more.
You on the other hand think that antiestrogens and aromatse inhibitors, HCG etc would not have existed without bodybuilders- categorically wrong. You think that abusing steroids is ok despite the fact that the entire medical worlds disagrees with you etc…I could go on but there is little point.
You know for the hell of it we decided to stop using Clomid for PCT and started taking Tamoxifen. It had nothing to do with the FACT that it works better, faster and at a much lower dosage.
I mean screw the HPTA, it’s not that important anyhow. Don’t worry you’ll find out about how much more effective tamox is when it trickles down to your level
I note that you are using PCT, in other words you ARE abusing AAS (every medical instituition in the world thinks your worng in this- but you know better), probably for bodybuilding puroposes. Now I know why you are so aggressive, you have testosterone to supraphysilogical levels and have an anger management problem.
A good job I am not continuing this conversation and have decided you can talk to yourself.
Do continue- have as many more posst as you like- I promise not to be in this thread again.
I have no idea where you get I’m on PCT. I haven’t used steroids in about 10 years but I still design cycles and PCT for people.
And by the way “MR Endo want to be” if I was on PCT I would not have a high level of T, I would be trying to restore my own production. Just another time opening your mouth without quoting a book shows your lack of knowledge.
As far as not replying I think you have said that about 5 times now, maybe you should try it.
Dr. Shippen has prescribed me the clomid test (4 days at 25mg each night, then blood tests on the morning of the 5th day). I have noticed a generally negative attitude presented towards clomiphene on this site.
Anyone, who has taken clomid…please let me know how much you took per day, and what side effects were associated.
Also, if I do this test…is my T level going to drop way off after a week or so and put me in a condition that is worse than I currently am?
Please let me know your thoughts as soon as possible (those who have taken clomiphene) as I am scheduled to start the test on Monday.
I made a few posts on Clomid over on the meso forum, and also searched a lot. I learned a lot about it. My name is ‘benaiah’ over there.
Basically, it “can” work in some people to raise T, as you know.
Everyone has their different dosage recommendations, probably depending on how sensative to drugs you are. I can’t remember what they suggested to me, but I think it was something low, like 25mg, which is quite low.
Or even think I remember someone maybe suggesting 12.5 mg twice daily, but can’t remember, anyway, you will probably be good with 25mg.
My doc prescribed 50mg but I haven’t taken it. My T has finally gone up on its own.
Anyway, WHAT I HAVE HEARD FROM EVERYONE THOUGH,
If you begin to experience ANY SIDE EFFECTS AT ALL stop immediately, because of what you have heard about vision problems in particular, although I think I have heard thats kind of rare.
Basicly I was going to try it. It seemed harmless to me. It didn’t scare me. I would try it out if you think you are ready.
